Old Earth or Young Earth

[jhwatts]

I would like to see why some lean to the old earth view and some lean to the young earth view.

Please present your views here. Try to include scripture as often as possible to reinforce your beliefs. Personal and scientific views are welcome here but please ensure you fall into one of the two categories.

Please chime in and let us know what you believe.

 

[miamited]

Hi jhwatts,

Well, this horse must surely be near dead by now. Oh, wait! I saw his nostrils flare. LOL!

I'm always glad to provide my understanding of what the Scriptures teach. However, let me first start off by saying that I believe that God knows everything - past, present, future. I say that because it does play somewhat into why I believe as I do. I also believe that God, not man, is the author of the Scriptures. Finally, I believe that God authored the Scriptures for man, not God.

God opens up the beginning of His revelation to us with an explanation of 'how' we got here. He opens that explanation with an account of several days in which He makes the claim of creating this realm by merely the command of His words. God said -- and something became.

But why, I am always asked, do I believe that God's accounting of the days of creation are merely solar days rather than ages? After all, the word 'yom' can mean several spans of time. Yom is one of those words, that without some contextual definer, can not necessarily be understood properly. I believe that God did give us such 'textual definers'. He explained that each day (yom) consisted of an evening and a morning.

Throughout all of the ages and all Hebrew writing we cannot find anywhere where the word 'yom' is written, then defined as an evening and a morning, and meant in other period of time than a day. Even today we still define a day as being an evening and a morning. Of course, we call it p.m. and a.m. Every day has roughly 12 hours denoted as p.m. (evening) and 12 hourse of a.m. (morning). Now, the p.m. has been adjusted a bit as far as what we call it. We have added 'afternoon' and then finish the rest of the p.m. period with evening.

That's really the sum total of why I understand the days of creation to be just pretty regular days. However, there is one other bit of confusion that man throws in. Man likes to claim that you can't have a day without the sun, but technically speaking the span of a 'day' has nothing to do with the sun. It is defined as the time it takes for the earth to make one complete rotation upon its axis. So, there could have been a day one without any other heavenly bodies so long as the earth was created spinning.

We still define a day in that manner. When one looks into the other planets of our solar system for the length of a day on some planet, that length is not determined by how long the sun might be on the planet's horizon, but merely on what we have calculated the length of time for that planet to make one full rotation.

So, days do not the sun or moon to define them or exist and evening and morning are neither relative to the sun or moon. Just as a.m and p.m. divide our 24 hours of a 'day', so do evening and morning divide the 24 hours of a 'day'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Resha Caner]

My vote would be "neither". And, honestly, I often wonder what people think is at stake in settling the age of the earth.

 

[abysmul]

Old, as in our current understand of "how things work" tells us the Earth is far older than a few thousand years.

That being said, I do not believe that the age of the Earth is a salvation dependent question and answer. None of us know what the age of the Earth really is.

 

[mark kennedy]

I would like to see why some lean to the old earth view and some lean to the young earth view.

Please present your views here. Try to include scripture as often as possible to reinforce your beliefs. Personal and scientific views are welcome here but please ensure you fall into one of the two categories.

Please chime in and let us know what you believe.

I think the age of the earth is irrelevant to the doctrines and histories of the Scriptures but I tend to favor the earth and the universe were created some time well before the creation of life. All Genesis says is 'in the beginning', the creation of life happened about 6,000 years ago as the Scriptures teach.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Smidlee]

I mostly lean toward both. The Earth is both old and young. Earth and heaven are old but young as they are known today. In Revelation it mentions a new earth and heaven yet probably the same planet just reborn after burn with fire.

 

[SkyWriting]

I mostly lean toward both. The Earth is both old and young. Earth and heaven are old but young as they are known today. In Revelation it mentions a new earth and heaven yet probably the same planet just reborn after burn with fire.

I believe that is the best way to describe it.

 

[KWCrazy]

Since there was light in the beginning, an evening and morning were absolutely possible even though the sun, moon and stars weren't created until day four. As it has been mentioned, when used in the context which the days of Genesis are used, they mean a single solar day every single time. Beyond that, we have the words of our Lord Himself engraved onto stone tablets which tell us, "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it." Beyond all the claims of man, what further proof do we need than the word of the Lord?

The earth and everything on it were created in their mature form. This includes trees bearing fruit, adult animals, Adam as an adult, and a complete functioning ecosystem so perfect that its like has never been duplicated. Eden was a place of perfection. Man subsequently proved himself unready for perfection.

There exists nothing in the Scriptures to indicate that the Genesis account of creation is anything other than absolutely factual. Belief in an earth that is millions of years old is strictly a fabrication of man from his own disbelief.

 

[mark kennedy]

Since there was light in the beginning, an evening and morning were absolutely possible even though the sun, moon and stars weren't created until day four.

Not necessarily, the creation of the heavens and the earth was a 'bara (H1254)' creation, from nothing. What it says about the sun, moon and stars is that God 'made (H6213)' them. It sounds the same in the English translation but it a term used in reference to fruit tree yielding (H6213) fruit (Gen 1:11, 12), which is procreation not creation out of nothing as it is with a 'bara' creation. The sun, moon and stars were already created in verse 1 as a part of the creation of the heavens and the earth. It's also used in connection with the firmament in Gen. 1:7.

They weren't created day four, they were made in the same sense that the heavens above and heavens below were separated. I really must get around to doing an exposition of Genesis 1, there are some important things to consider in the words used in connection with various aspects of creation.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[KWCrazy]

Not necessarily, the creation of the heavens and the earth was a 'bara (H1254)' creation, from nothing. What it says about the sun, moon and stars is that God 'made (H6213)' them. It sounds the same in the English translation but it a term used in reference to fruit tree yielding (H6213) fruit (Gen 1:11, 12), which is procreation not creation out of nothing as it is with a 'bara' creation. The sun, moon and stars were already created in verse 1 as a part of the creation of the heavens and the earth.

True, but you don't see a big ball of light hanging around in our solar system do you? I believe that the sun, moon and stars came from the entity God called light; everything else in the universe originating from one burning ball of gas that lit up our planet for the first three days. It fits with Genesis, it fits with big bang cosmology, and it makes sense. Where else could the light have gone?

 

[mark kennedy]

True, but you don't see a big ball of light hanging around in our solar system do you? I believe that the sun, moon and stars came from the entity God called light; everything else in the universe originating from one burning ball of gas that lit up our planet for the first three days. It fits with Genesis, it fits with big bang cosmology, and it makes sense. Where else could the light have gone?

Your missing the obvious, the earth was covered in water and darkness:

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (Gen. 1:2)​

When God separates the light from the darkness, the upper firmament from the lower firmament, the land from the water, God isn't creating from nothing. When a tree bears fruit a new tree isn't being created from nothing. On the fourth day it doesn't say that God created the sun, moon and stars from nothing.

The Big Bang happened in Genesis 1:1, the earth, sun, moon and stars were created then but the earth was covered in darkness, not because there was no sun but because of the clouds.

Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, (Job 38:9,10)​

That's consistent with Genesis 1, the earth is wrapped in darkness but later God broke up the darkness. Different words are used for different acts of creation and if the sun was created day four it would be the word 'bara'.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[bibletruth469]

I believe that the creation days were literal seven earth days just like it says in the beginning in Genesis( evening and morning would complete each day) . The creation of man happened on day six. In Genesis 1:1 , it say that in the beginning , God created the heavens and the earth. My bible has a period after that first verse. The original Hebrew had no punctuation after that verse. Anyway, I used to believe that there was a gap of time between verse 1 and verse 2. That would cause me to believe that the heavens and earth themselves were old, however humans and animals were young. When the genealogies are traced back, experts put the human race to be between 6000-10,000 years old. I know that the humans and animals including the dinosaurs can not be older than that time frame. How can animals and humans be dying on the earth for millions of years when God said everything was good on the earth in the beginning. Also, if it was good and it was very good, his could the death occur on the earth before God said everything was good ? This can not happen according to Gods word. Therefore, because of these reasons and more, my vote is for a relatively young earth .

 

[SkyWriting]

I believe that the creation days were literal seven earth days just like it says in the beginning in Genesis( evening and morning would complete each day) . The creation of man happened on day six. In Genesis 1:1 , it say that in the beginning , God created the heavens and the earth. My bible has a period after that first verse. The original Hebrew had no punctuation after that verse. Anyway, I used to believe that there was a gap of time between verse 1 and verse 2. That would cause me to believe that the heavens and earth themselves were old, however humans and animals were young. When the genealogies are traced back, experts put the human race to be between 6000-10,000 years old. I know that the humans and animals including the dinosaurs can not be older than that time frame. How can animals and humans be dying on the earth for millions of years when God said everything was good on the earth in the beginning. Also, if it was good and it was very good, his could the death occur on the earth before God said everything was good ? This can not happen according to Gods word. Therefore, because of these reasons and more, my vote is for a relatively young earth .

The easy, simple, and literal creation story indicates that it all happened in 6 days. Yet, Adam could walk and talk and food was growing and soil was present. These would indicate that all things were formed and ready for their intended purpose. Evidently "time passed" even if it happened in the Creators mind before being formed so that everything was "up and running" as it was created. How or where this time passed is a matter of trust in God. Any scientific analysis would like draw the wrong conclusions about the age of the earth and this is to be expected.

 

[dull bot]

How can animals and humans be dying on the earth for millions of years when God said everything was good on the earth in the beginning.

But those were previous/other creations. If all creations are considered together, then Satan (and not Adam) would be the "first sinner," right? But that would be confusing an angelic creation with our own.

-Tim

 

[Calminian]

But those were previous/other creations. If all creations are considered together, then Satan (and not Adam) would be the "first sinner," right? But that would be confusing an angelic creation with our own.

-Tim

But according to Ezekiel 28 Satan fell in the Garden of Eden, along with Adam. It appears that Satan's sin was the tempting of Eve, which indeed makes him the first sinner.

Ezek. 28:12.....‘You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.​

That pretty much precludes a pre-fall ancient (billions of years ago) Satanic fall.

 

[dull bot]

But according to Ezekiel 28 Satan fell in the Garden of Eden, along with Adam. It appears that Satan's sin was the tempting of Eve, which indeed makes him the first sinner.

No, sin entered our creation through the first man (Romans 5), not Satan. Satan is not part of our creation.

Ezek. 28:12.....‘You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.​

That pretty much precludes a pre-fall ancient (billions of years ago) Satanic fall.

There is nothing in that passage which indicates "It appears that Satan's sin was the tempting of Eve."

-Tim

 

[NannaNae]

when Jesus spit in the dirt and created eye balls just like he did on the 4-6th day. jesus told man a hundred ways who he was and showed us just how he did it.

Jesus , he is the laws of physics, he proved it . so for man to assume he can can figure out an infinite God is at least naive if not insane, or most definitely lacking something foundational to wisdom..

you know the bottom line is this ask an atheist and old earth folks to tell us what a young earth and universe should look like. they don't and won't know because they aren't looking for it.

 

[ob77]

I would like to see why some lean to the old earth view and some lean to the young earth view.

Please present your views here. Try to include scripture as often as possible to reinforce your beliefs. Personal and scientific views are welcome here but please ensure you fall into one of the two categories.

Please chime in and let us know what you believe.

The earth is guessed as being 4.5 billion years old. I do not dispute this.
Peter states that there are three world ages and speaks of the world that then was. The phrase in Genesis, "void and without form" is the Hebrew: "Tohu- vah- bohu", which means became that way, not created that way. The ancient Assyrian records, which are now housed in the British museum, date back 72,000 years, or six of their "everlastings", 12,000 years each. Chicken bone hill, as it is referred to , is 8 miles outside what was Beping. It is a mountain with caves and in it are layer upon layer of dead buried there. The dead were buried in robes and jewelry dating back to 23,000 years as dated with Carbon 14 and 10 dating. The Assyrians counting back to 72,000 years goes to the Mantevera, the great upheaval and colossal wars between Satan and the forces of God....Carmac and Murdock, which is what the Assyrians called them. Revelation refers to this as the war in heaven, between Satan and his angels and Michael and his angels. In the 31st chapter of Ezekiel, God tells Ezekiel to tell Pharaoh that his empire was great already in the day He created Eden and the Assyrians were worldwide before that. Before all this, you have Tungis man, who was Asiatic, who was probably the first man and dates back as far as 600,000 years. Adam is only maybe 7,000 years back, and was the last to come along, but unless one can rearrange one's thinking, to believe the earth is only as old as Adam has a problem, a big problem.
I have covered a lot of ground here in a short span, but I do not like writing a complete book in one post. Nuff said.

 

[SkyWriting]

when Jesus spit in the dirt and created eye balls just like he did on the 4-6th day. jesus told man a hundred ways who he was and showed us just how he did it.

Jesus , he is the laws of physics, he proved it . so for man to assume he can can figure out an infinite God is at least naive if not insane, or most definitely lacking something foundational to wisdom..

you know the bottom line is this ask an atheist and old earth folks to tell us what a young earth and universe should look like. they don't and won't know because they aren't looking for it.

The earth looks old and the garden of Eden is described as "old".

 

[SkyWriting]

But according to Ezekiel 28 Satan fell in the Garden of Eden, along with Adam. It appears that Satan's sin was the tempting of Eve, which indeed makes him the first sinner.

Other passages are more clear and need less guessing:

Romans 5:12 ►
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned--

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned--