Old Earth Creation

[Punchy]

An old earth would not prove evolution, nor would it disprove the historicity of the Bible. Given that there is no good reason, either in Scripture or the natural world, to believe that the universe is less than 10,000 years old, let's not believe that the universe is less than 10,000 years old.

Peace.

 

[Dannager]

Yeah, good luck with that one. The YECs I've interacted with seem pretty set on enjoying their 6,000 year shtick.

 

[gluadys]

An old earth would not prove evolution, nor would it disprove the historicity of the Bible. Given that there is no good reason, either in Scripture or the natural world, to believe that the universe is less than 10,000 years old, let's not believe that the universe is less than 10,000 years old.

Peace.

Good point punchy. Too many people think falsely that the only reason to suppose the earth is old is to allow for evolution. They forget that the antiquity of the earth and the absence of a global flood were both established a quarter century before Darwin's publication. And accepted by most Christians. That is why all the major anti-evolutionist teachers of the time were old-earth creationists e.g. Cuvier, Agassiz, Charles Hodge, etc.

 

[Punchy]

For those of you "uninitiated" into old earth creation, I'd recommend the following sites...

http://www.reasons.org/

http://www.godandscience.org/

http://www.answersincreation.org/

Notable Christians Open to an Old Earth Interpretation
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/notable_leaders/index.shtml

 

[jeffweeder]

An old earth would not prove evolution, nor would it disprove the historicity of the Bible. Given that there is no good reason, either in Scripture or the natural world, to believe that the universe is less than 10,000 years old, let's not believe that the universe is less than 10,000 years old.

Peace.

Thats wierd, the historicity, and the scriptures is where we get a date under 10,000 years.



So all those finer details of the geneologies that give us this 6000 year date were included in the bible so it wouldnt add up?

MT 1
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; from David to the deportation to Babylon, fourteen generations; and from the deportation to Babylon to the[17][Gr Christos (Christ)] Messiah, fourteen generations.

 

[Punchy]

Where does the Bible claim to be an accurate dating method?

 

[Dannager]

Where does the Bible claim to be an accurate dating method?

Yeah, I've heard that people's ages were extremely inflated as a measure of respect back then.

 

[Punchy]

Even if people lived at one time for hundreds of years, that does not mean that the Genesis genealogies are meant to date the age of the universe. There could obviously be gaps in the genealogies, just as there are in the Gospels.

 

[jeffweeder]

Where does the Bible claim to be an accurate dating method?

It claims to be the word of God, so any date that it uses is to be taken as meaning something.
It is specific about things it puts dates on;
The length of ones reign-,the year it started,- who he succeeded etc
Was Enoch the 7th from Adam....?


70 years captivity
70 weeks until Messiah.

3 So all the elders of Israel came to the king at Hebron, and King David made a covenant with them before the LORD at Hebron; then they anointed David king over Israel.
4 David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years.
5 At Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty-three years over all Israel and Judah.

We are to take this literally as we ought the geneologies.

Why all the specific information if it doesnt mean what it says.?

You have the NT confirming this literal interpretaton;

So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; from David to the deportation to Babylon, fourteen generations; and from the deportation to Babylon to the[17][Gr Christos (Christ)] Messiah, fourteen generations.

 

[jeffweeder]

Even if people lived at one time for hundreds of years, that does not mean that the Genesis genealogies are meant to date the age of the universe. There could obviously be gaps in the genealogies, just as there are in the Gospels.

What family members would you leave out of your geneology---?

They are all there.
Dont know what you mean by Gaps in the gospel.
Jesus ministry was only 3 1/2 years long.

 

[Punchy]

Please cite the chapter and verse where the Bible claims the world to be less than 10,000 years old.

 

[jeffweeder]

Start here

Gen 5
Descendants of Adam

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.
2 He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.
3 When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.
4 Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters.
5 So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
6 Seth lived one hundred and five years, and became the father of Enosh.
7 Then Seth lived eight hundred and seven years after he became the father of Enosh, and he had other sons and daughters.
8 So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years, and he died. etc etc etc

finish here
The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah
1 The record[1][Lit book ] of the genealogy of Jesus[2][Heb Yeshua (Joshua), meaning The LORD saves ] the[3][Gr Christos (Christ), Gr for Messiah, which means Anointed One ] Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers.
3 Judah was the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez was the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram[7][Gr Aram ].
4 Ram was the father of Amminadab, Amminadab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon.
5 Salmon was the father of Boaz by Rahab, Boaz was the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse.
6 Jesse was the father of David the king.


15 Eliud was the father of Eleazar, Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob.
16 Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the[16][Gr Christos (Christ)] Messiah.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; from David to the deportation to Babylon, etc


start counting and youll see its way under 10,000 years every time

 

[Punchy]

What physical evidence is there that points to a young earth?

 

[joeskis]

Sure the genealogy stuff can give us an idea of how many years ago it was when Adam was on earth. But that doesn't necessarily indicate the age of the planet. The day 1 - day 6 creation account could be describing how God prepared earth to be inhabited by humans. But the planet we call earth could have been around much earlier.

Here's a historical fact that just doesn't seem to fit the young earth idea: the ice age. How were humans inhabiting the planet during this time?

 

[picnic]

What family members would you leave out of your geneology---?

They are all there.
Dont know what you mean by Gaps in the gospel.
Jesus ministry was only 3 1/2 years long.

If the two genealogies in Matthew and Luke are compared there are more people mentioned in the Luke genealogy, suggesting that Matthew may have skipped a generation from time to time and thus getting his 14,14,14 pattern.

 

[Assyrian]

It claims to be the word of God, so any date that it uses is to be taken as meaning something.
It is specific about things it puts dates on;
The length of ones reign-,the year it started,- who he succeeded etc
Was Enoch the 7th from Adam....?


70 years captivity
70 weeks until Messiah.

I think there might be a flaw in your argument here...

 

[jeffweeder]

I think there might be a flaw in your argument here...

well thankyou for elaborating on why...

point being is that there were 70 years.
There was also 70 weeks.
Plus the fact that 3 days in the tomb-really meant 3 days.
40 days in the desert was exactly that.

If you want to believe the word of God is careless when it says in Gen-evening and morning=1 day thats up to you .

I suppose the geneologies should be ignored---,seems to me that this is Gods way of confirming that it actually does mean what it says, and he glues it all together by emphasising the facts of how long people lived and exactly how old they were when their offspring came to be.----Why go to this trouble if it is full of gaps and holes.?
God indeed has his oracles and the hebrew was chosen to record them.
Its time to drop your secular foundation on history and claim to know nothing except Jesus Christ and him crucified- this is the only way -for all of us.

God was not bound by time factors when he spoke the word and things came into being..

Jesus, who played an active role in CREATION by speaking the word--which he is, instantaniously healed all kinds of ills, by the word that came forth from his wonderful mouth. No time needed here.

God does not need millions-thousands-hundreds of years to perform his will.

 

[shernren]

God does not need millions-thousands-hundreds of years to perform his will.

But God has all the time in the world - it makes no difference to Him whether He takes 3 seconds, 6 days, or 9 billion years of our time to do what He pleases.

 

[jeffweeder]

so why record it as 6 days if it wasnt the case?

 

[Jase]

so why record it as 6 days if it wasnt the case?

To set up the model for the week and Sabbath.