Old Catholic Sacraments for Roman Catholics

[LiturgyInDMinor]

"When a Catholic sacred minister is unavailable and there is urgent spiritual necessity, Catholics may receive the Eucharist, penance, or anointing from sacred ministers of non-Catholic denomination whose holy orders are considered valid by the Catholic Church. This includes all Eastern Orthodox priests, as well as priests of the Old Catholic or Polish National Church." Rights and Responsibilities, A Catholic's Guide to the New Code of Canon Law, Thomas P. Doyle, O.P., page 44.



I learn something new everday.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

How legalistic.

WWJD?

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

How legalistic.

Not really.
It's a nice sacramental backup for them if you ask me.

 

[MKJ]

The question would be I guess would the non-Catholic ministers be willing to give it to the unfortunate Catholic.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

The question would be I guess would the non-Catholic ministers be willing to give it to the unfortunate Catholic.

As an Old Catholic priest myself I could not deny the individual.

 

[MLynn]

"When a Catholic sacred minister is unavailable and there is urgent spiritual necessity, Catholics may receive the Eucharist, penance, or anointing from sacred ministers of non-Catholic denomination whose holy orders are considered valid by the Catholic Church. This includes all Eastern Orthodox priests, as well as priests of the Old Catholic or Polish National Church." Rights and Responsibilities, A Catholic's Guide to the New Code of Canon Law, Thomas P. Doyle, O.P., page 44.



I learn something new everday.

Would that exclude Episcopal priests? I was thinking of an urgent need for last rites in a hospital, for example.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Would that exclude Episcopal priests? I was thinking of an urgent need for last rites in a hospital, for example.

I think it would be pretty difficult to find an approved (as described in the OP) non-RC priest in a UK hospital.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Would that exclude Episcopal priests? I was thinking of an urgent need for last rites in a hospital, for example.

Honestly if the person wanted the Sacrament and was at peace with it being done by an Anglican priest...more power to 'em.
I guess a Sacrament can be illicit yet still valid??? Sacramental grace honestly has nothing to do with the "worthiness" of the ministering party.

 

[MKJ]

Honestly if the person wanted the Sacrament and was at peace with it being done by an Anglican priest...more power to 'em.
I guess a Sacrament can be illicit yet still valid??? Sacramental grace honestly has nothing to do with the "worthiness" of the ministering party.

Yes. From a Catholic perspective, a sacrament performed by an Old Catholic is valid, but illicit. On the other hand, a sacrament from an Anglican or Episcopalian is invalid, and so they can't, even in a state of emergency, ask for an Anglican priest to perform one (though individuals can of course choose to break the rules.)

In general, Orthodox priests are not allowed to give Sacraments to non-Orthodox, though in a real emergency I think there might be some leeway. I'm not sure what it would involve.

 

[MKJ]

I think it would be pretty difficult to find an approved (as described in the OP) non-RC priest in a UK hospital.

You could likely get hold of an Orthodox priest. On the other hand, in a UK hospital it would likely be easy to find a Catholic priest anyway. I think this measure is more of an issue in places where Catholics are hard to come by.

 

[christopherdombrowski]

I learn something new everday.

Yes, because they have only been severed from Rome for about 150 years now and have not altered the form of their rites in the way Rome believes the Anglicans have.

 

[christopherdombrowski]

How legalistic.

How is that?

 

[christopherdombrowski]

The question would be I guess would the non-Catholic ministers be willing to give it to the unfortunate Catholic.

The Old Catholics most likely would, but the Eastern Orthodox most likely would not.

 

[christopherdombrowski]

Would that exclude Episcopal priests? I was thinking of an urgent need for last rites in a hospital, for example.

Yep. Aside from infusion of Old Catholic Orders, the official line is that Anglicans have no Holy Orders and thus there is no point in seeking Sacramental ministration from them.

 

[christopherdombrowski]

I guess a Sacrament can be illicit yet still valid???

That is the Roman understanding of your rites, perhaps. Those of the Anglicans, however, are understood to be illicit and invalid.

Sacramental grace honestly has nothing to do with the "worthiness" of the ministering party.

The "worthiness" of the ministering party has nothing to do with the POV that Anglicans lack legitimate Sacraments.

 

[christopherdombrowski]

In general, Orthodox priests are not allowed to give Sacraments to non-Orthodox, though in a real emergency I think there might be some leeway. I'm not sure what it would involve.

Most likely the Orthodox Priest would try to get any non-Orthodox person in such a situation (whether it be an Anglican, Old Catholic, or even Roman Catholic) to be initiated into the Orthodox Church via Chrismation.

 

[MKJ]

The "worthiness" of the ministering party has nothing to do with the POV that Anglicans lack legitimate Sacraments.

Oh, I missed that point. Yes, you are correct. Individual ministers has nothing to do with the Catholic POV on this.

 

[kiwimac]

The question would be I guess would the non-Catholic ministers be willing to give it to the unfortunate Catholic.

Certainly I am willing. I have to say though that the situation has never arisen.

 

[kiwimac]

Yep. Aside from infusion of Old Catholic Orders, the official line is that Anglicans have no Holy Orders and thus there is no point in seeking Sacramental ministration from them.

An arguable point. I could argue it quite strongly as there is quite good evidence that this is simply not the case.

 

[christopherdombrowski]

An arguable point. I could argue it quite strongly as there is quite good evidence that this is simply not the case.

What is an arguable point? That Rome teaches that Anglican ordinations are generally illegitimate?