Okay, since you think God can lie, tell me ... Can Satan commit righteous deeds?

Ajax 777 · Jan 12, 2007

Svt4Him said:
Since you can't define it, I'll have to try. I didn't realize it was a tough quesion. Righteous acts can be defined as acts that are morally right. If someone is drowning, it is morally right to save them, and if you place your life on the line, is it righteous? Or is a righteous act an act that is divine in nature? People can have "righteous anger", or anger over something that is morally corrupt. Then it infers that a righteous act is something that is morally right, but then it begs the question that if something is done that is morally right for a morally wrong reason, is it still righteous? What if an act is done because it's required not because of any reason whatsoever, is it righteous? What if the wrong thing was done so the end would come out ok, is it an unrighteous act that brings about righteousness?

Perhaps now I see why you weren't able to answer my question.

Okay. If you want a definition of a righteous act, here is an example taken from Scripture:

"Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

Since our righteouness is of Him, then it should begin and end with Him. If we are the righteousness of God (for the Word says we are), and ambassadors of Christ while here on Earth, then righteousness would mean being obedient to God, putting His will ahead of our own.

Tenebrae · Jan 12, 2007

Questioning Christian said:
I'm looking forward to your answers and justifications for THAT, also. Since you have no Scripture for "God can lie", perhaps you can rely on this same reasoning to explain how Satan can do holy and righteous things.

So ... can Satan commit righteous deeds?

And don't be posting anything you can't substantiate with Scripture.

Satan can only imitate the things of God, the problem being things like healings always have a catch top them

God grants healing, no strings, no conditions attached...

Satan can appear to heal, but his "Healings" always have a catch

So is satan righteous no. HE can imitate righteousness but thats about it

Mattacious · Jan 12, 2007

No one responded to my posts in this thread.

CrazyforYeshua · Jan 12, 2007

I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion, but I thought of this scripture

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of his coming;
2Th 2:9even he, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So here you have both things. Satan performing wonders and miracles, and God sending delusion, so they believe a lie.
Hmmm.......Not sure what that all means to the OP, but there it is.

JimB · Jan 12, 2007

DreamerOfDreams said:
There are those who became Christians who then fell back into mere theism. That is they choose to define God by the omni factors rather than the revelation of the Father Jesus showed us. It is more important to say "God can do anything" than it is to say "Jesus is the logos of God and the perfect image of the Father." It is more important to say "God is in control of everything (including evil)" than to say "Jesus is the exact image of the Father."

If your ultimate and bottom line answer of faith is "God is too big to understand and we could never comprehend the plans and purposes of God" then let me introduce you to Jesus. He will clear all that up for you!!!!

Dods

Okay, “Dods”, if you can actually keep God under a microscope, then how do you interpret the following NT passage?:

Romans 11. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 34 “For who has known the mind of the LORD? Or who has become His counselor?”

~Jim

A poor person isn't he who has little, but he who wants more.

psalms 91 · Jan 12, 2007

How about the spirit will reveal all things?

lismore · Jan 12, 2007

bill16652 said:
How about the spirit will reveal all things?

You dont expect anyone to take any notice of the Holy Spirit on the charismatic forum do you?

psalms 91 · Jan 12, 2007

lismore said:
You dont expect anyone to take any notice of the Holy Spirit on the charismatic forum do you?

lol I would hope so and not just here the truth will set us free

lismore · Jan 12, 2007

bill16652 said:
lol I would hope so and not just here the truth will set us free

IS The Holy SPirit not the one sent to keep us in the dark, he moves in mysterious ways this unknowable God.

Or does he lead us into all truth!

JimB · Jan 12, 2007

lismore said:
IS The Holy SPirit not the one sent to keep us in the dark, he moves in mysterious ways this unknowable God.

Or does he lead us into all truth!

And what do you think all truth means, Lis?

Does it mean we, with our finite minds, will understand everything there is to understand about the Infinite and Almighty God, despite the fact that we are told that His judgments are unsearchable and His ways past finding out and who has known the mind of the LORD? Or who has become His counselor? (Romans 11.33-34)? Do we magically become a Forrest Gump with the ability to understand the deep secrets of astrophysics and thermodynamics or something?

Or does all truth mean that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all the truth that is necessary for life and godliness as in 2 Peter 1.3, His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness?

Ill go with the latter.

~Jim

A poor person isn't he who has little, but he who wants more.

lismore · Jan 12, 2007

Jim M said:
And what do you think “all truth” means, Lis?

Does it mean we, with our finite minds, will understand everything there is to understand about the Infinite and Almighty God, despite the fact that we are told that His judgments are “unsearchable” and His ways “past finding out” and “who has known the mind of the LORD? Or who has become His counselor?” (Romans 11.33-34)? .

The passage that Romans quote originally comes from In Isaiah 40 says:

3 A voice of one calling:
"In the desert prepare
the way for the LORD [a] ;
make straight in the wilderness
a highway for our God. [b]

4 Every valley shall be raised up,
every mountain and hill made low;
the rough ground shall become level,
the rugged places a plain. 5 And the glory of the LORD will be revealed,
and all mankind together will see it.
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

9 You who bring good tidings to Zion,
go up on a high mountain.
You who bring good tidings to Jerusalem,
lift up your voice with a shout,
lift it up, do not be afraid;
say to the towns of Judah,
"Here is your God!"

The people who bring good tidings therefore are not to understand what the good tidings are?

As Jesus said:

John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

So If we know everything from the Father then whats this mystery area you keep bringing up?

psalms 91 · Jan 12, 2007

If we are to be in the dark then how can we walk in the light? How did the Old Testament ahve so many men of faith because they could not see Jesus or believe promises? No for by faith were they justifiied and made righteous, they believed in what was to come. When the temple was built who laid it out and gave it to men? Were not men made skilled with knowledge and ideas by God? The bible says they were.

JimB · Jan 12, 2007

lismore said:
The passage that Romans quote originally comes from In Isaiah 40 says:

3 A voice of one calling:
"In the desert prepare
the way for the LORD [a] ;
make straight in the wilderness
a highway for our God. [b]

4 Every valley shall be raised up,
every mountain and hill made low;
the rough ground shall become level,
the rugged places a plain. 5 And the glory of the LORD will be revealed,
and all mankind together will see it.
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

9 You who bring good tidings to Zion,
go up on a high mountain.
You who bring good tidings to Jerusalem,
lift up your voice with a shout,
lift it up, do not be afraid;
say to the towns of Judah,
"Here is your God!"

The people who bring good tidings therefore are not to understand what the good tidings are?

As Jesus said:

John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

So If we know everything from the Father then whats this mystery area you keep bringing up?

Well, apparently that hasnt worked the way you offer it for any of us in this forum or we would all be in agreement on these finer doctrinal matters, wouldnt we?

The all truth the Spirit leads us into and the everything Jesus mentioned is all things/everything that pertains to life and godliness His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 2 Peter 1.3

~Jim

A poor person isn't he who has little, but he who wants more.

psalms 91 · Jan 12, 2007

Or could it be that it is because we are mortal with failings. Is it possible that we either dont hear or we hear a little and then use assumption and personal exoperience or be moved off of truth by satan trying to decieve. You see I believe that God wants to share truth with His children but many times we are not mature enough for that truth or we tend to be fuman and run with what we know rather than waiting for all of it

lismore · Jan 12, 2007

Jim M said:
Well, apparently that hasnt worked the way you offer it for any of us in this forum or we would all be in agreement on these finer doctrinal matters, wouldnt we?

The all truth the Spirit leads us into and the everything Jesus mentioned is all things/everything that pertains to life and godliness His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 2 Peter 1.3

~Jim

A poor person isn't he who has little, but he who wants more.

Well does what you teach not pertain to life and Godliness?

The reason we are not all in agreement on matters is that very reason. The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Lets allow him to do that

JimB · Jan 12, 2007

lismore said:
Well does what you teach not pertain to life and Godliness?

The reason we are not all in agreement on matters is that very reason. The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Lets allow him to do that

So, it is you (not I) and those who agree with you that have been led into all truth? Its just me and those who agree with me who havent.

Why am I not surprised.

~Jim

A poor person isn't he who has little, but he who wants more.

Okay, since you think God can lie, tell me ... Can Satan commit righteous deeds?

God is the Truth, not an opinion.

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