Ohr Yeshua Messianic Synagogue

[Gabe7587]

I'm a Baptist, and today I went to a Messianic Jewish Synagogue. It was AMAZING. I got to read and sing Hebrew songs. The people were so loving and kind. They really had a compassion for the scriptures, especially a deep respect for the Torah. I really want to know more of the Messianic Jewish Faith. In may not stop being a Baptist, but I want to delve myself more into the Messianic society.

 

[1John2:4]

I'm a Baptist, and today I went to a Messianic Jewish Synagogue. It was AMAZING. I got to read and sing Hebrew songs. The people were so loving and kind. They really had a compassion for the scriptures, especially a deep respect for the Torah. I really want to know more of the Messianic Jewish Faith. In may not stop being a Baptist, but I want to delve myself more into the Messianic society.

It's really awesome to learn from Messianic teachers. I too used to be Baptist, I learned a lot and there are many kind and wonderful Baptists but I just knew I needed more meat. Now when I read certain scriptures they make so much more sense, and I am hungry to read and study Torah, I can see how the Tenakh fits together with the new Testimant. I wish you well on your journey!! Happy Purim

 

[BukiRob]

I'm a Baptist, and today I went to a Messianic Jewish Synagogue. It was AMAZING. I got to read and sing Hebrew songs. The people were so loving and kind. They really had a compassion for the scriptures, especially a deep respect for the Torah. I really want to know more of the Messianic Jewish Faith. In may not stop being a Baptist, but I want to delve myself more into the Messianic society.

For me and I think I can speak for all of us who identify as messianic is that for the first time you see how truly seamless scripture is. You begin to see messiah clearly revealed in the Tenakh. You see how the Torah is NOT the law as taught by much of the church but rather is the instructions on HOW to love G-d and our neighbor as ourselves as commanded by Messiah

 

[Meowzltov]

I'm a Baptist, and today I went to a Messianic Jewish Synagogue. It was AMAZING. I got to read and sing Hebrew songs. The people were so loving and kind. They really had a compassion for the scriptures, especially a deep respect for the Torah. I really want to know more of the Messianic Jewish Faith. In may not stop being a Baptist, but I want to delve myself more into the Messianic society.

I'm so very glad you had this opportunity!!!!! I think understanding the Jewish roots of the Christian faith enriches the walk of every Christian. Messianic Judaism is not for everyone. It takes exceptional people to be drawn to observing the Torah. But you'll never know if that's you or not until you have the opportunity! So enjoy your experiences and your time of learning.

 

[AbbaLove]

I'm a Baptist, and today I went to a Messianic Jewish Synagogue. It was AMAZING. I got to read and sing Hebrew songs. The people were so loving and kind. They really had a compassion for the scriptures, especially a deep respect for the Torah. I really want to know more of the Messianic Jewish Faith. In may not stop being a Baptist, but I want to delve myself more into the Messianic society.

The majority of "Jewish Christians" of the 50s & 60s were introduced to Jesus by well-intentioned Baptists with many consequently attending a Baptist Church. However, many of these 50s, 60s & 70s "Jewish Christians" desired more of a connection with the Traditions of Judaism; especially Sabbath Worship.

It was primarily the soul winning Baptists that were responsible for the modern Messianic Movement of the 60s & 70s. Now there are as many or more Messianic non-Jews attending Messianic services on Shabbat as there are Messianic Jews.

 

[Soyeong]

I'm a Baptist, and today I went to a Messianic Jewish Synagogue. It was AMAZING. I got to read and sing Hebrew songs. The people were so loving and kind. They really had a compassion for the scriptures, especially a deep respect for the Torah. I really want to know more of the Messianic Jewish Faith. In may not stop being a Baptist, but I want to delve myself more into the Messianic society.

Hello and welcome,

I grew up attending a Baptist church for 30 years before I started digging into the Jewish cultural context of the Bible. It took me a few years of search for answers, but I eventually came to the conclusion that what I had previously been taught about the Torah was wrong. I felt like I learned much more in depth about the Bible during that time than the previous 30 years, so I highly recommend it even if you don't come to the same conclusions. I think that there is a lot in Scripture that we can miss or misunderstand when we do not take the time to try to understand what was being said as it was understood by the original audience through a Jewish mindset.

A big part of what led to changing my views was becoming aware of the stark contrast between Jews who viewed God's Law as a delight, who loved God's law, who meditated on it day and night, and who saw walking in obedience to God's Law as being a blessing, and Christians who viewed God's Law as being a heavy legalistic burden that no one could bear. The two views are incompatible, and what I had been taught did not match the the view expressed in Psalms 119, but if the Psalms are Scripture and all Scripture is true, then my view of God's Law needed to conform to Psalms 119. There are many times throughout the Psalms that David delighted in obeying God's Law, which Paul also delighted in doing (Romans 7:22), so I think he was on the same page as David, and that this was how the average observant Jew also viewed God's Law. So I think mainstream Christianity has interpreted the NT as though God's Law was something negative that Jesus has to come to save us from and I think that does a strong diservance to the people of the NT who never would have thought that.

Another big issue was the theme that we must obey God rather than man, so we need to be careful not to take something that was only against obeying the law of men as being against obeying the Law of God. During the 1st century, there was a large body of Jewish oral laws, traditions, rulings, and fences that some taught were needed to become saved, so if we do not take into account the fact that much of what is said in the NT is in regard to these oral laws and not God's laws, then we will misunderstand what was being said. In Matthew 15:2-3, Jesus was asked why his disciples broke the traditions of the elders and he responded by asking them why they broke the command of God for the sake of their tradition. He then went on to say that for the sake of their tradition they made void the Word of God (Matthew 15:6), he quoted Isaiah to say that they worshiped God in vain because they were teaching as doctrines the commands of men (Matthew 15:8-9), and he called them hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God for the sake of their tradition (Mark 7:6-9), so these traditions were a big source of conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees and this conflict continued between the followers of Jesus and the Pharisees in Acts 15 and Galatians.

A third issue was the realization that trying to obey God's Law for the purpose of becoming saved has always been a fundamental misunderstand and a legalistic perversion of it. Paul spent a lot of time hammering home the point that obeying God's Law was not about trying to become justified and that we are justified by faith apart from the Law, yet today many people are still making the same error of thinking that obeying God's Law is about trying to become justified, only they have compounded their error by concluding that therefore their faith has done away with their need to obey the Law, whereas Paul concluded that our faith does not abolish the Law, but rather our faith upholds the Law (Romans 3:27-31). In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the most important aspects of the Law, and in John 14:24, he said that anyone who does not love him will not obey his teaching, which is the same as the Father who sent him, so obedience to God's Law has always been about demonstrating our faith in Him about how to rightly live, demonstrating our love for Him, and about growing in a relationship with him based on faith and love.

So I eventually realized that I needed to act upon what I was learning and joined a Messianic congregation. We have an excellent teacher with a solid grasp on both the OT and NT and have many of his studies posted online on Matthew, Romans, Galatians, the Temple, the Feasts, the People of God, and on Finding Messiah in the Torah:

Romans 1-8, Messianic Jewish audio teachings by Stan Farr

We also have a number of articles posted and just started a study on Revelation.

 

[Gabe7587]

I wish to stay Baptist, and be Messianic also

 

[Soyeong]

I wish to stay Baptist, and be Messianic also

Labels are just tools that we use to quickly convey information about us. The problem is that when I identify as a Christian, then I communicate things about me to the average person that are false, such as that I am someone who worships on Sunday, who celebrates Christmas and Easter, who doesn't celebrate God's Feasts, and who doesn't keep kosher. However, if I didn't identify as a Christian, then that would create and even bigger communication problem and communicate even more things about me that are false. There is a book called Don't Call me Christian by Paul Liberman that talks about the origins of the movement, where the author felt strongly about wanting to identify as a Messianic Jew rather than as a Hebrew Christian because of the connotations of being a Christian. Jews have sadly been mistreated by Christians throughout history, so many Jews view Christians negatively and consider becoming a Christian to be leaving Judaism. Strangely, the issue in Acts 15 was whether Gentiles had to become Jews in order to be Christians, but today the opposite is true in that some think that Jews have to stop being Jews in order to become Christians, and both are equally false. So Paul Liberman want to emphasize that they were still Jews who followed Jewish traditions, but were also following their Messiah, which he did not see as being conveyed accurately by identifying as a Hebrew Christian.

So by all means, use whichever label you think best communicates your views. For about a year, my parents attended the Messianic congregation on Saturday and the Baptist congregation on Sunday, but eventually they felt that they needed to act on what they had been learning and stop attending the Baptist congregation. My dad was the head elder and my mom was a deacon, so it was a difficult decision, which some people understood, but which others did not, but they left with the church's blessing. Don't get me wrong, there is still a lot of value that can be gained by attending both congregations, so there is nothing wrong with attending both for as long as you want. However, one of the things common to people who become Messianics is that they want to share all the new things that they have been learning with their friends and family, but tend to find them less than receptive, and more likely to convince them that they have joined a cult, gone under the law, fallen from grace, etc., so it is difficult to maintain a balance. We had had one close family friend who felt that they needed to cut off all contact with us. I still hold many Baptist views, such as in Baptism by immersion, so I could identify as a Baptist, but that would again also be communicating things about me that a false because I also hold many views that most Baptists would disagree with, so it is again difficult to find the right label.

 

[Lulav]

As you may notice this thread
has shrunk.
That is because many
of the posts were Off topic to the OP
Debating, goading, flaming.
They are now missing.
(Some where just quoting deleted posts)
That is the grace extended for this thread
Any other violations reported will
be actioned.

​

 

[Gabe7587]

Do messianic jews believe in osas (once saved, always saved)? And do all messianics keep Kosher?

 

[SistrNChrist]

I'm so very glad you had this opportunity!!!!! I think understanding the Jewish roots of the Christian faith enriches the walk of every Christian. Messianic Judaism is not for everyone. It takes exceptional people to be drawn to observing the Torah. But you'll never know if that's you or not until you have the opportunity! So enjoy your experiences and your time of learning.

I agree with that, because I attend a non denominational church where our pastor places a heavy emphasis on understanding the entire Bible through the eyes of Messianic prophecy/Hebrew Scriptures, which I will say helps me understand things with a lot more clarity than I did when I first got saved.

 

[Dave-W]

Do messianic jews believe in osas (once saved, always saved)?

Much to my dismay I have to say that many do hold to OSAS. But not all. Doctrinally we are much divided. Some are cessationist, others very charismatic. Some are studious and others not at all. Some want a lot of traditional Jewish liturgy and others no formal liturgy at all.

And everything in between. Often all that is in the same congregation.

And do all messianics keep Kosher?

First off - there is "kosher" and then there is "KOSHER." Just as in normative Judaism you have the Orthodox and ultra orthodox, and then you have the extremely reformed; all with varying levels of observance, the same thing exists in MJ. Some will eat ONLY glat kosher and others will not think twice about having a double bacon cheeseburger.

 

[Meowzltov]

Do messianic jews believe in osas (once saved, always saved)? And do all messianics keep Kosher?

Messianic Jews (and Messianic Gentiles) don't agree on ANYTHING other than that we love Yeshua and Torah. Some MJ's are OSAS and others not. Some keep kosher, others don't. And there is no agreement on how kosher "kosher" should be. Some simply abstain from the unclean foods mentioned in the Bible. Some also don't mix meat and dairy. Some go the whole Orthodox kit and kaboodle and have separate dishes for meat and dairy and eat only certified kosher meats, etc.

 

[Meowzltov]

There is a book called Don't Call me Christian by Paul Liberman that talks about the origins of the movement, where the author felt strongly about wanting to identify as a Messianic Jew rather than as a Hebrew Christian because of the connotations of being a Christian.

In my Hebrew Catholic group we are currently having this discussion about labels.

First, I reject the whole argument about not being identified as a Christian. Yes, there are ugly, ugly things in Church history. But it does no good to pretend that we are not connected with them. It's just dishonest to change the label -- a thorn by any other name tears just as much.

Anyhow, as to the label thing and Messianic Jew rather than Hebrew Christian, it was really over thinking of ourselves as primarily Jews. After all Jews are almost always born Jews, and then become Christians, so it's Christian which is the secondary identity.

The Catholic Church presently designates us Hebrew Catholics, and there are those among us who are fine with that because no one will assume they are practicing Judaism, which denies Moshiach. And then there are others among us who feel that we haven't been called Hebrews since Egypt, and feel offended because the Church STILL isn't accepting us as Jews; we want to be called Catholic Jews. And then there are the really avant guard ones who prefer to be called Messianic Jewish Catholics, because it not only identifies us as Jews, but also connect us with other Jewish believers. What we find is that among ourselves, the higher the level of observance, the more important it is to use the word Jew rather than Hebrew. My guess is that observance builds a stronger identity.

Personally, I think being called a Hebrew is ridiculous. I'm a Jew. And I'm MJ. And a Catholic. Labels tell you a lot!

 

[SistrNChrist]

I get where the people who don't want to label themselves as Christians are coming from, because I find that when I get to know a non believer, I shy away from mentioning my faith, especially if that person has been wounded by another Christian. I don't know what everyone else's reasons are, but for me, I find that sadly, Christianity carries such a negative connotation due to the hurtful actions of other Christians, so people will automatically shut themselves off and immediately make a snap judgment of you that may not even be true, all because they hear the word "Christian," and I'd rather people get to know me for who I as an individual am, without having any preconceived notions, if that makes sense.

 

[Meowzltov]

I don't know what everyone else's reasons are, but for me, I find that sadly, Christianity carries such a negative connotation due to the hurtful actions of other Christians, so people will automatically shut themselves off

Think for a moment: why are you a Christian? I'm wondering if you remember the reason, since you seem to have nothing you feel is worth sharing to another. I suspect that if you dig deep, you'll remember why you choose Christ, and you'll find that THAT sort of Christianity is well worth sharing, even though it comes along with other Christians.

 

[SistrNChrist]

Think for a moment: why are you a Christian? I'm wondering if you remember the reason, since you seem to have nothing you feel is worth sharing to another. I suspect that if you dig deep, you'll remember why you choose Christ, and you'll find that THAT sort of Christianity is well worth sharing, even though it comes along with other Christians.

I do remember why I became a Christian, and indeed, you are correct in that the unconditional love/acceptance I found in my walk with the Lord is what I believe to be worth sharing. That being said, I have to admit that it gets kind of hard to talk about God being someone who will love and accept you no matter what you did or who you are to a person who was deeply wounded by others who wear the Christian banner all because for whatever reason, they did something that was not of God. Like how do I say with a straight face that God still loves you and cares about you to a person who was kicked out of their faith community because they did something that the pastor/elders viewed as an unforgivable sin?

 

[visionary]

I do remember why I became a Christian, and indeed, you are correct in that the unconditional love/acceptance I found in my walk with the Lord is what I believe to be worth sharing. That being said, I have to admit that it gets kind of hard to talk about God being someone who will love and accept you no matter what you did or who you are to a person who was deeply wounded by others who wear the Christian banner all because for whatever reason, they did something that was not of God. Like how do I say with a straight face that God still loves you and cares about you to a person who was kicked out of their faith community because they did something that the pastor/elders viewed as an unforgivable sin?

I hear you... May you forgive them and move on in faith. May you be blessed to run into true believers who understand and living the forgiving nature. May they see the good in you through Yeshua.

 

[Meowzltov]

I do remember why I became a Christian, and indeed, you are correct in that the unconditional love/acceptance I found in my walk with the Lord is what I believe to be worth sharing. That being said, I have to admit that it gets kind of hard to talk about God being someone who will love and accept you no matter what you did or who you are to a person who was deeply wounded by others who wear the Christian banner all because for whatever reason, they did something that was not of God. Like how do I say with a straight face that God still loves you and cares about you to a person who was kicked out of their faith community because they did something that the pastor/elders viewed as an unforgivable sin?

I understand.

I run across this with those I counsel a lot. The way I handle it is like this: "I'm so sorry you were so hurt. You didn't deserve it. I want you to know that God loves you just as you are, even with what you did, and he calls you back to him, calls you to something higher. I'm also a Christian, and *I* also love you, and I accept you as you are, and I pray that you will find the grace to be all that God has for you to be and to do all God has for you to do, right where you are. Let's talk about those who hurt you. They are sinners just like you and me. We need to remember that the Church is a hospital for sinners, so expect to find a lot of sinners there. And rest assured that there are lots of Christians who are not going to reject you for what you did, but who will follow Christ's example and not condemn you but only say, 'Go and sin no more. ' " If she were not a client, I would follow up with a big hug and ask if she wants to pray.