OCD & Doubting

[stvns78]

I was baptized when i was 8 years old. I went to the alter of my own free will. Over the years satan would try to plant a seed that i didn't really get baptized. Luckily i received a baptism certificate so i had proof i was baptized. My wife was a catholic and therefore was baptized as a baby. She wanted to be baptized again this time of her choosing instead of someone else making the choice for her. Satan used this occasion as an opportunity to sow doubt of my own baptism and salvation. I started doubting that my own baptism at 8 was not a valid baptism and i did not receive the holy spirit. My reasoning was i couldn't remember if my heart was in the right place, if i truly knew what i was doing, etc. My heart may have been in the right place, I may have truly repented, i just don't remember. This spiraled out of control until i was a nervous wreck. I am obsessing over this issue.

I went to one of my church elders and in a nutshell said if i had doubts then go ahead and get baptized again. This raised another issue and doubt in my brain in that would be getting baptized again be a sin? So now i am stuck between doubting that my first baptism was valid and potentially sinning doing it again. I have read many articles on the subject of rebaptism. Some say its fine others say not needed and others again say its a sin. I have prayed about it earnestly asking God for the right path. If he has spoken to me i have been unable to filter just him. I did read this:

But when you ask, you must believe. You must not doubt. People who doubt are like waves of the sea. The wind blows and tosses them around. A man like that shouldn’t expect to receive anything from the Lord. He can’t make up his mind. He can never decide what to do. James 1:6-8

So then should i not expect God to answer my prayers because i have doubts? I just want to make the right decision and please the Lord. I want to have assurance that either my first baptism was valid or it wasn't and i need to do it again.

After a chat with my pastor he believes in the validity of my baptism at 8 but would also support me being baptized again. Both my pastor and an elder nor I know of anywhere in the bible that forbids rebaptism but i certainly do not want to perform it just because. A true baptism should be a one time event.

I have been on and off medications for anxiety/OCD for a long time and I have been off my meds currently for a while now and this is probably why these doubts have taken root. The fact that i am having these doubts troubles me and makes me wonder how strong my faith and trust in the Lord is. I started taking my meds again to hopfully make satan shut up.

I understand that baptism is not the end of the Christ journey but the beginning. I know there are instances in the bible where people were saved without being baptized. I know that Jesus commanded his followers to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I love God, i love Jesus and I would gladly lay down my life to give glory to their names. I have been a believer almost my entire life but not a very good follower. I am in the process of changing that whether i get baptized again or not.

I would like to get others perspective on getting rebaptized and how to strengthen faith and trust in the Lord.

Thanks!
Mike

 

[ajcarey]

I think it is good that you are seriously considering this and that you want to get the perspective of others on this, but you should not be ascribing your current doubts to Satan and/or OCD. They are valid doubts because 8 years old is too young for a valid baptism. The Bible only knows certainly about adults repenting and being born again, and there is no record of child baptism in Scripture. You say you've been a believer most of your life, but not a very good follower. The Bible though doesn't distinguish between a true believer in Christ and a faithful disciple of Christ. I would truly consider whether you really have totally renounced and divorced your sins, and are submitted to God's authority through His Word. Careful, prayerful, honest reading of large portions of Scripture is in itself a key way to test this and to get the direction and insight you need wherever you are at right now. Perhaps Genesis, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, a Gospel account, Romans, 1 John, and Revelation could be an appropriate sample of Scripture to use for now if just reading (or listening) through the whole Bible in a short time is overwhelming to you now. This is a great time overall to examine yourself; and as long as your criteria is the Word of God (as you saturate your mind with it) and not random voices or feelings or errant opinions of others, going through with self-examination and seeking to adjust whatever, wherever, to ensure that you have really gone through the strait gate and are walking on the narrow way that leads to life is a well worth it and potentially profitable, soul-saving endeavor. "20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee. 21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." Make sure that you are truly bowing to Jesus and submitted to His Holy and Righteous authority. "8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity (i.e. lawlessness); therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." (Hebrews 1:8-9)

 

[Tolworth John]

I was baptized when i was 8 years old. I went to the alter of my own free will. Over the years satan would try to plant a seed that i didn't really get baptized. Luckily i received a baptism certificate so i had proof i was baptized.

If you believe you were baptised as a believing Christian, then there is no need to be rebaptised.

Given your history of ocd I would be inclined to keep things simple and if it ain't broke don't fix it.

You are a Christian, trusting in Jesus for your salvation, so leave it.
All baptism is, is a witness to the fact that one has become a Christian and wants to tell people.

 

[stvns78]

If you believe you were baptised as a believing Christian, then there is no need to be rebaptised.

There is the root of the entire problem. I want to believe I was a believer when i was baptized when i was 8 and for the last 33 years I had no doubts that my baptism was genuine. But now my mind is telling me "Well maybe you weren't a believer at the time you were baptized and you are damned"

I used to be on the side of "for it is grace you are saved through faith". Jesus commanded his followers to baptize and he himself said "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." I've read the negative fallacy argument and it makes sense but is it worth risking my everlasting soul on?

I have considered being rebaptized but do not want to do it if it is somehow a sin. But i also do not want to carry around this doubt for the rest of my life. Then again if i get rebaptized i would worry i committed a sin and carry that around for the rest of my life... I am in a real pickle here. There is a right path and I am praying earnestly that the Lord will guide me in the right direction. I am going to immerse myself in his word and hopefully find peace before i have a stroke.

 

[Leet]

Getting rebaptized is not a sin. Go ahead and do it if you are supported by your church. The thing is though, would it feed your OCD more to do it? You wouldn't want to find yourself "needing" to be baptized yearly for the rest of your life or something. Bottom line either way... you are saved. God will not damn a genuine believer in the here and now over a hair-splitting niggle about child baptisms.

 

[Mari17]

I was baptized when i was 8 years old. I went to the alter of my own free will. Over the years satan would try to plant a seed that i didn't really get baptized. Luckily i received a baptism certificate so i had proof i was baptized. My wife was a catholic and therefore was baptized as a baby. She wanted to be baptized again this time of her choosing instead of someone else making the choice for her. Satan used this occasion as an opportunity to sow doubt of my own baptism and salvation. I started doubting that my own baptism at 8 was not a valid baptism and i did not receive the holy spirit. My reasoning was i couldn't remember if my heart was in the right place, if i truly knew what i was doing, etc. My heart may have been in the right place, I may have truly repented, i just don't remember. This spiraled out of control until i was a nervous wreck. I am obsessing over this issue.

I went to one of my church elders and in a nutshell said if i had doubts then go ahead and get baptized again. This raised another issue and doubt in my brain in that would be getting baptized again be a sin? So now i am stuck between doubting that my first baptism was valid and potentially sinning doing it again. I have read many articles on the subject of rebaptism. Some say its fine others say not needed and others again say its a sin. I have prayed about it earnestly asking God for the right path. If he has spoken to me i have been unable to filter just him. I did read this:

But when you ask, you must believe. You must not doubt. People who doubt are like waves of the sea. The wind blows and tosses them around. A man like that shouldn’t expect to receive anything from the Lord. He can’t make up his mind. He can never decide what to do. James 1:6-8

So then should i not expect God to answer my prayers because i have doubts? I just want to make the right decision and please the Lord. I want to have assurance that either my first baptism was valid or it wasn't and i need to do it again.

After a chat with my pastor he believes in the validity of my baptism at 8 but would also support me being baptized again. Both my pastor and an elder nor I know of anywhere in the bible that forbids rebaptism but i certainly do not want to perform it just because. A true baptism should be a one time event.

I have been on and off medications for anxiety/OCD for a long time and I have been off my meds currently for a while now and this is probably why these doubts have taken root. The fact that i am having these doubts troubles me and makes me wonder how strong my faith and trust in the Lord is. I started taking my meds again to hopfully make satan shut up.

I understand that baptism is not the end of the Christ journey but the beginning. I know there are instances in the bible where people were saved without being baptized. I know that Jesus commanded his followers to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I love God, i love Jesus and I would gladly lay down my life to give glory to their names. I have been a believer almost my entire life but not a very good follower. I am in the process of changing that whether i get baptized again or not.

I would like to get others perspective on getting rebaptized and how to strengthen faith and trust in the Lord.

Thanks!
Mike

Hi Mike, thanks for reaching out! I would like to share some of my thoughts as I also have struggled with OCD for many years, and most of it has been religious themes/ scrupulosity.

First, with OCD, we have the tendency to be anxious, and our brain is always on the lookout for a good topic to latch onto - something that would really bother us. For Christians, often those topics are religious, because those things are close to our hearts. Knowing this, we must begin to realize that the issue that we're currently worrying about is not really the problem; it is the way we are thinking about it. Everyone gets concerns, weird thoughts, "bad" thoughts, etc. All of these are normal parts of being human. But those of us with OCD tend to freak out way more, because our minds don't process these thoughts as smoothly as people without OCD. To use the classic handwashing example, someone without OCD will trust their common sense to know when to stop washing their hands; they may get the thought that maybe their hands aren't clean, but they are able to make a logical judgment about it, like "OK, another quick wash then," or "Nah, it's good enough for now." Those of us with OCD, however, get stuck, hyper-analyzing and thinking so much that we become unable to listen to our logic and common sense.

It's the same with religious obsessions. You're taking a valid question - "Is age 8 too young to get baptized?" and your mind is blowing it up, and attaching a lot of fear and risk to it. The thing is that OCD is primarily a fear of being uncertain. We fixate on one topic and start to get so afraid about it that we HAVE to know the right answer, and we have to know RIGHT NOW. What we fail to see is that our thinking, through fear and anxiety, has become distorted, and we are UNABLE to figure out the answer while we are obsessing about the topic, because we are seeking 100% certainty, which we can never have. We're unable to rest in a reasonable amount of certainty, like "normal" people. Well, we can, but for us it's something we have to train our brains to do.

So how do we do that? We start standing up to our obsessive fears. When we get the urge to do compulsions - whatever our brain is forcing us to do to relieve anxiety (washing, checking, researching, ruminating, asking for reassurance), we have to stop and realize that the matter is not as urgent as we feel it is. It's SO hard to start ignoring those anxious thoughts and refusing to do our compulsions, because it feels like we're doing something wrong. But we have to start learning to trust that we DON'T have to know the answers perfectly, that God is merciful and will have grace on us EVEN IF WE MESS UP. We want the "control" of knowing that we are doing everything perfectly, but we just can't have that assurance in this life. We have to learn to rest in a reasonable amount of uncertainty, and give the rest to God.

So how do these principles apply in your case? My suggestion would be to stop researching this for a while. That feels dangerous, of course, but there's always that feeling of risk when we say no to the OCD. Realize that, because of your OCD, your mind will not let you rest right now, no matter what information you find. Rest in the fact that you've talked to your pastor, and he thinks your first baptism is OK, so for now you're going to leave it. Of course, your mind won't let you leave it at that. That's why it's going to require a lot of perseverance to keep ignoring it. That anxiety will keep swimming around in your head, trying to get your attention, over and over and over. And over and over and over, you have to say no to it. Not an easy prospect! But the result is that you will start to be able to control your own mind again, instead of having fear control it. At a future date, when your mind is clearer, you can think through the issue logically, and decide if rebaptism is really what you want. But for now, while you are feeling anxious and fearful, don't make any decisions. Don't let your fears run the show!

I have lots more I could say about OCD, but I'll leave it at that for now. If you have more questions or would like links to some useful websites, let me know. I do highly recommend Dr. Osborn's site (especially the blog posts) for religious OCD: http://ocdandchristianity.com/. And if you would like more support, feel free to join the "Christianity and Anxiety Disorders" Facebook group, which I'm a part of. It's a good group that has lots of people with religious OCD. I wish you well on your journey against OCD!

 

[stvns78]

Hi Mike, thanks for reaching out! I would like to share some of my thoughts as I also have struggled with OCD for many years, and most of it has been religious themes/ scrupulosity.

First, with OCD, we have the tendency to be anxious, and our brain is always on the lookout for a good topic to latch onto - something that would really bother us. For Christians, often those topics are religious, because those things are close to our hearts. Knowing this, we must begin to realize that the issue that we're currently worrying about is not really the problem; it is the way we are thinking about it. Everyone gets concerns, weird thoughts, "bad" thoughts, etc. All of these are normal parts of being human. But those of us with OCD tend to freak out way more, because our minds don't process these thoughts as smoothly as people without OCD. To use the classic handwashing example, someone without OCD will trust their common sense to know when to stop washing their hands; they may get the thought that maybe their hands aren't clean, but they are able to make a logical judgment about it, like "OK, another quick wash then," or "Nah, it's good enough for now." Those of us with OCD, however, get stuck, hyper-analyzing and thinking so much that we become unable to listen to our logic and common sense.

It's the same with religious obsessions. You're taking a valid question - "Is age 8 too young to get baptized?" and your mind is blowing it up, and attaching a lot of fear and risk to it. The thing is that OCD is primarily a fear of being uncertain. We fixate on one topic and start to get so afraid about it that we HAVE to know the right answer, and we have to know RIGHT NOW. What we fail to see is that our thinking, through fear and anxiety, has become distorted, and we are UNABLE to figure out the answer while we are obsessing about the topic, because we are seeking 100% certainty, which we can never have. We're unable to rest in a reasonable amount of certainty, like "normal" people. Well, we can, but for us it's something we have to train our brains to do.

So how do we do that? We start standing up to our obsessive fears. When we get the urge to do compulsions - whatever our brain is forcing us to do to relieve anxiety (washing, checking, researching, ruminating, asking for reassurance), we have to stop and realize that the matter is not as urgent as we feel it is. It's SO hard to start ignoring those anxious thoughts and refusing to do our compulsions, because it feels like we're doing something wrong. But we have to start learning to trust that we DON'T have to know the answers perfectly, that God is merciful and will have grace on us EVEN IF WE MESS UP. We want the "control" of knowing that we are doing everything perfectly, but we just can't have that assurance in this life. We have to learn to rest in a reasonable amount of uncertainty, and give the rest to God.

So how do these principles apply in your case? My suggestion would be to stop researching this for a while. That feels dangerous, of course, but there's always that feeling of risk when we say no to the OCD. Realize that, because of your OCD, your mind will not let you rest right now, no matter what information you find. Rest in the fact that you've talked to your pastor, and he thinks your first baptism is OK, so for now you're going to leave it. Of course, your mind won't let you leave it at that. That's why it's going to require a lot of perseverance to keep ignoring it. That anxiety will keep swimming around in your head, trying to get your attention, over and over and over. And over and over and over, you have to say no to it. Not an easy prospect! But the result is that you will start to be able to control your own mind again, instead of having fear control it. At a future date, when your mind is clearer, you can think through the issue logically, and decide if rebaptism is really what you want. But for now, while you are feeling anxious and fearful, don't make any decisions. Don't let your fears run the show!

I have lots more I could say about OCD, but I'll leave it at that for now. If you have more questions or would like links to some useful websites, let me know. I do highly recommend Dr. Osborn's site (especially the blog posts) for religious OCD: http://ocdandchristianity.com/. And if you would like more support, feel free to join the "Christianity and Anxiety Disorders" Facebook group, which I'm a part of. It's a good group that has lots of people with religious OCD. I wish you well on your journey against OCD!

I have started taking my meds again and have calmed down some. I made the decision to study the word and become strong in faith and in spirit and then reexamine the issue. I have been praying GOD make the way known to me on what is the right course.

I know i am on the right path because Satan is attacking me even more trying to convince me that GOD and Jesus do not even exist. I believe an 8 year old can have true faith and be saved. The word has indicted me as a sinner but also encouraged me that by grace through faith i will be saved. Jesus said himself to not hinder the little children that want to come to him. For in GOD all things are possible.

Your words are of much encouragement and what i needed to hear.

Thanks to all and GOD bless.

 

[Mari17]

I have started taking my meds again and have calmed down some. I made the decision to study the word and become strong in faith and in spirit and then reexamine the issue. I have been praying GOD make the way known to me on what is the right course.

I know i am on the right path because Satan is attacking me even more trying to convince me that GOD and Jesus do not even exist. I believe an 8 year old can have true faith and be saved. The word has indicted me as a sinner but also encouraged me that by grace through faith i will be saved. Jesus said himself to not hinder the little children that want to come to him. For in GOD all things are possible.

Your words are of much encouragement and what i needed to hear.

Thanks to all and GOD bless.

Glad you are feeling better! Just for the sake of clarification, I'd like to point out that OCD (like many mental disorders) stems from physical causes and thus, like physical diseases, is not inherently a spiritual issue (although I believe the devil certainly can use our ailments against us). I just don't want people with OCD who are reading this to freak out thinking that they must be doing something wrong in their spiritual lives. So happy to hear that you are feeling encouraged and able to press on!