OCD about assurance of salvation

[Ribosome]

for the first 3.5 years of my OCD, i've had huge doubts about the existance of God. they are mostly gone now, although they come back from time to time for a short while. now however, i have lots of OCD that I am not saved.

people on this forum have told me that i rely on feelings of faith too much, or something like that. but the thing is, isn't loving God a feeling? when i feel faith, thats when my desires for God are greater than the desires of my flesh, and when the desire for God is greater, thats when i reject the desire of the flesh and act on my desire to do as God says. isn't being filled with the Holy Spirit a feeling? being filled with love, and having a desire to follow Jesus' commandments.

does anyone else have memory problems because of OCD? reading books, or writing posts is a pain for me. concentrating causes a lot of tension in my head, OCD tension. thinking is a pain for me.

there are times when salvation is so clear to me, and I'm filled with so much joy of God and his grace. i'm filled with his love, and that love pours out on those around me, i just want to serve other people out of God's love in me. this happens when i understand that my sin is forgiven, and when i grasp the understanding of the basics of salvation in my head.

but heres the problem, I cannot keep that understanding of salvation in my head! minutes or even seconds after i understand salvation, and how clear it is to me, and how no one can tell me i'm not saved, i just forget it! it slips out of my head. the feeling of joy is gone, but with it is gone the understanding of salvation and the gospel. i cannot remind myself through out the day that jesus died for me and my sin is forgiven, because i dont understand it anymore! so again, i start hearing sermons, reading books, all trying to understand salvation again. it's like i'm not saved again, and i dont even understand the gospel.. i completely forget it! i'm stuck in these cycles and it sucks. i'm emberassed to go to church or to talk with people there because its like i'm not even a christian because i dont understand the gospel anymore! when i do understand it, all i want is to be with christians and worship god together, but when i dont understand it again i'm just like i'm not saved, and i'm emberassed to be around christians.

when the understanding of the gospel slips out of my head, soon i give into the desires of the flesh, because thats all thats left without God. i try and try to understand the gospel, and even though it was so simple to me many times before and i told myself i would never forget it, i just cant understand it. i go in these cycles, understanding for brief minutes or seconds, then forgetting again, it never stays in my head.

i think its kinda like trying to tell yourself some reassurance about your obession. for example: you have OCD about your door being closed, and to calm yourself you tell yourself that it IS closed because your sister checked it for you. so you tell yourself that fact that your sister checked it for you and told you its closed. but you can only reassure yourself with that fact for so long until it doesnt work anymore, and you obsess that maybe your sister checked wrong and the door is still open.

i think this OCD about salvation is something like that. I remind myself of Jesus death and ressurection and forgiveness of sins that comes from that, but the more i reassure myself, the more it just slips away from me, and soon the understanding of the gospel and salvation is just gone from me.

i think the thing that is driving this problem is my fear of not being saved. everytime i forget salvation, i start to fear that i'm probably not born again since i cant even keep the understanding of salvation in my head, that it didnt go down deep into me and become a part of me.

when i dont understand salvation, nothing clicks in my head when i hear the gospel message, its like i'm not saved. only after many listens and readings does it click in my head and become clear to me again. when i dont understand salvation i just end up falling into selfishness and wordly desires. its only teh gospel that can change a person to leave selfishness and live for God, and i can't undertand the gospel most of the time.

also, everytime i hear a sermon about halfheartedness towards God or lack of fruit, i just get scared to death. cause thats how i am when i forget salvation and the gospel.

i'm so confused, i dunno what to do. this is causing me a great deal of pain.

just like raven on this forum, i dont even know if this problem of mine is spiritual, or if its OCD. i dunno what God wants me to do in this situation. i worry about my salvation a lot because of it.

 

[raven1]

Hi grant, I am sorry you are still struggling. I will pray for you.

 

[Anonymous User_]

Hello!
Grant, I know what you're going through. I also suffer from OCD, and I worry about my salvation all the time! Sometimes I feel that I have to reaffirm my decision in Christ over and over to make it true. I wonder if thinking certain thoughts or entertaining any doubts for a certain amount of time reflects that I have taken back my decision in Christ. Honestly, there is no cut and dry answer to our problems. I know it's hard for you to believe that salvation is not based on feelings, and that people probably keep telling you this, but it is true. The decision to follow Christ is just that - not a feeling, not even an intellectual understanding or satisfaction. It's a decision. The reoccurrence of your not understanding of the Gospel is your obsessions. Intrusive, unwanted thoughts are bombarding you - with OCD, your brain does exactly what you fear the most. Sometimes my brain almost seemingly makes the decision, "Jesus, I don't believe in you anymore!" to burst unwillingly into my thoughts. I feel like I have to reassure myself of my faith all the time! I also ask my spiritual mentors whether I'm saved, which is a big compulsion. Here is what I advise to you: Don't trust what you feel, or the lack thereof. That's how OCD will control you with its moves like Jagger! Your 'lack of understanding' for the Gospel is merely an illusion being planted in your mind by your OCD. I don't think God will hold these times against you. Try to avoid any response to these thoughts at all, lest you worsen your compulsions. You have made your decision. And even if it doesn't make anymore sense than a cowboy wearing a parka, it's still your decision! Your brain is an organ - you are the you who makes choices via the brain, not it. God knows your heart. Trust Him. And as far as the sermons that are frustrating, trust me. I STILL have trouble listening to sermons or reading Bible verses to this day because any little thing said feels like a threat to my salvation. Don't worry about it. ALL you have to do is accept Jesus in your heart. What sins you commit, how you feel, what thoughts come into your head, your lack of enthusiasm - your salvation is completely independent of those. It is only by faith in Christ. Here are two things that I HIGHLY recommend you read, especially the arcing one - the next to last chapter of Case for Faith by Lee Strobel (on doubting), and Can Christianity Cure Obsessive Compulsive Disdorder by Ian Osborn. This will be a great help, I feel, especially the second. Please make an investment in that one!! (You'll be happy to learn that MARTIN LUTHER went throughout the exact same thing you and I are going through - and look what God did in THAT situation!) Also, if you are not already seeing a Christian counselor or Christian psychologist, do so now! If you are not taking medication already, it really can help you! Find a good psychiatrist. Good luck to you - OCD is a strange and isolated road to travel, but know that God has let you go down it for a greater purpose. His hand holds yours all the way. You just have to have the courage to give up and realize that He is the one holding the sky in place, not you and your own sense of logic.

 

[Lik3]

I will pray for you.

 

[CrossPilgrim]

Hi there, Grant.

I will attempt, by God's grace, to clarify your questions.

1) Memory...

I never had memory lapses, per se, but I did have huge bouts of doubt which would quickly overshadow whatever confirmation God had just recently given me. For instance, one day God would greatly confirm His presence in and with me and the next day I'd give into similar doubts about my salvation.

2) Is faith and love a feeling?

In a word, no. It can have feelings, but we can't depend solely on feelings, which fluctuate and ultimately lead us astray because they can still be influenced by our flesh. That's why sin can evoke feelings as much as loving.

This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 1 John 3:19

You see. Feelings can't be what steers us. God's truth is. Faith is defined as the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Heb 11:1). This means acting upon God's truth and trusting God in spite of our feelings, preconceptions, own ideas, etc. The example given is of Abraham, who trusted God by faith and moved to a distant land that God promised him. Abraham must have been unsure, worried and even scared. Still he went on.

Likewise, Godly love is not a feeling, unlike human love which is. The love we are to have is based on a feeling. Look at our Lord Jesus Christ. He dreaded the thought of dying on the cross and despised the shame, but despite His feelings, He was compelled His love for God and us to do so. Godly love can evoke emotions, but it doesn't stem from them but instead from the Holy Spirit's indwelling in us.

3) Assurance of salvation...

Before I continue, I will quote God's own word in that...

This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 (emphasis mine)

That said, God has included in His word a series of tests that we can apply to ourselves to, as stated in 2 Corinthians 13:5...

Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

I posted this once before, so I'll just repost it as God's truth doesn't change:

Now you may ask, am I saved? Have you seen God's hand in you since you first believed? A Christian may not have all of these, but a continual growth showing these as signs is a really good sign you are saved. You can read 1 John for some tests which include:
- A love for God that grows? Do you enjoy your time with the Lord? (5:2-5)
- A love for fellowship with believers (2:9-11)
- A decreasing pattern of sin in your life with an increasing desire to do good / you are no longer who you once were, for the better. You don't continue in sin as before. (1:6-7) (2:7-8)
- Do you keep God's commandments? (3:7-10) (3:23-24)
- Have you confessed Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior? (2:23) (4:15-16)

There are more tests. Now take note that we Christians are prone to stumble from time to time, sometimes allowing the vices of the world to grow on us like thorns, stifling our growth for a season. However, the sign of the true believer is that they won't stay in the thorns forever.

Then two options exist. Either 1) you are a child of God or 2) you are not. Given option #1, then you can rejoice and silence the doubts. Given option #2, then this is God's way of reaching out and today is the day of your salvation. God is good and doesn't want to damn anyone.

Also, there is a condition called lukewarm-ness. If you found you were growing and then you stopped and began to indulge in sin, then that's lukewarm-ness. Not that you are struggling with sin and winning by the power of Jesus Christ, but that you are jumping headfirst into it. If you are lukewarm, than this may be God's way of saving you from yourself.


From what I read in your post, you believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and have (at least) some desire to live for Him. It just seems you rely too much on feelings. That just makes our walk with Christ into a roller coaster instead of a straight and narrow.

Jesus said that we are to die to ourselves and carry our cross. That includes many things, including dying to our feelings when they go against the Will of God, which is in His Word. I know this is difficult, but in my own struggle with unwanted thoughts, I have found that dying to these lying feelings and trusting God at His Word (Jesus) allows me to keep on walking where before I was crippled.

I can't say this enough -- Pray to God with faith in what Jesus has done. I know it's difficult, but fighting the fight of faith is a battle. Trust in God. Rely on Jesus and allow His Holy Spirit to direct your paths and calm your raging sea. May God show you His perfect way by His unfailing love.

 

[Anonymous User_]

@Crosspilgrim, be careful when advising these tests, though I believe there is some truth in them. My personal struggle with OCD has caused me to have negative feelings about God and the Christian culture, though they are undesired feelings that I battle against. Yet despite these emotions, I have CHOSEN Christ and CHOSEN to love other Christians. Advising an OCD-struggling person to base any test on feelings is dangerous. The moment you wonder, "Have I ever felt this way before?" your brain will start to try and convince you that you are incapable of feeling this way, and that any memories you have of feeling this way have no merit. Look carefully at the meat of each verse - I like to think that either you choose follow an INCLINATION to do all these things, or that there are circumstances such as OCD that pose an exception, when the sufferer is unable to control what emotions or ideas enter the brain.

 

[tripletiger1200]

There is a book called growing in grace by bob george that you should read. Fruit isn't a product of your own actions, it is a product of the life of Christ in you. Salvation is by faith alone. People too often forget that salvation has nothing to do with them, but everything to do with what Jesus did. If you believe in God's son Jesus then you are saved. You may not be a mature Christian, you may still live in the flesh and not the spirit, but if you truly are failing at living the Christian life, yet still believe that Jesus paid for your sins and was resurrected from the dead so that you can have eternal life then it means you are relying on your flesh, your own self effort apart from Christ to try to produce fruit, faith, and closeness to God. There is a reason that we have the Holy Spirit as Christians, and it is because we are not capable of living the Christian life ourselves.
Being saved doesn't mean thinking about salvation all the time, and it doesn't mean trying really hard to be good. It means asking Jesus to save you, knowing that He can, and then choosing to believe that He has, even if you don't feel it. Even when we are faithless, God is faithful. God knows who you are, and He has got you. You don't have to try so hard to hold on, if you have been born into eternal life, into an inheritance that can't perish or fade, then your lack of faith or your OCD is not going to touch that.

 

[Ribosome]

Being saved doesn't mean thinking about salvation all the time, and it doesn't mean trying really hard to be good. It means asking Jesus to save you, knowing that He can, and then choosing to believe that He has, even if you don't feel it. Even when we are faithless, God is faithful. God knows who you are, and He has got you. You don't have to try so hard to hold on, if you have been born into eternal life, into an inheritance that can't perish or fade, then your lack of faith or your OCD is not going to touch that.

about teh underlined part: i do ask Jesus to save me, and i know that because he is God and because he died that means that he can save me, and because he has risen that means he did save me. however, these words and facts are meaningless to me when i have a mental block. on moments when i dont have the OCD mental block, those words set me free and are easy to understand, but now as i say them myself, i know that i understood them before and they had meaning to me, but now as i say them with OCD they are completely meaningless and ununderstandable to me. i dont know waht they mean, they are just words, its like i don't have any faith in those facts, something is not letting me understand them and grasp those truths for myself. i tell them over and over to myself so i can understand them and understand waht salvation is, but it does not get passed the mental block. i cannot reassure myself with those words.

i've also read a lot of those tests to find out if you are saved. i do find that i fit most of those tests when salvation is clear in my head, but with these mental blocks, those tests just give me OCD cause i dont see myself passing any of them.

i've also read that Ian Osborn book. I was also just reading it tonight. it does not help me because i do not understand what it says just as i dont understand salvation. I have OCD of reading and understanding. on the good days when i dont have a mental block, i can read that book and understand everything clearly. but when i start to try to apply the principles in that book to myself, mental block forms, and the battle of trying to reassure to myself those principles begins. every time i try to apply a lesson or principle from that book to myself, it just does not go in there. 1% of the time it does go through and in those moments i leap for joy because i am at peace and know that Jesus has saved me. but 99% of the time trying to apply principles to myself does not work, just creates a tougher mental block.

i dunno what to do anymore.

 

[CrossPilgrim]

So when you are level headed, you know you are saved, but when you get mind fog, you aren't sure, right?

Then simply (and I've been there before, so I know it's not so simple) hold on to the non-disordered thoughts. Pray to God that He may help you walk in spite of doubts. He can strengthen you. In fact, I'd recommend you surrender your problem over to Him.

In my own struggle, I realized that nothing I could do would ever stop the thoughts or make them go away. So in desperation, I handed my struggle over to God, having faith (what little I had) in Jesus Christ. Basically I was like...

"God, your Word says you love me. In fact, You sent Jesus to die for me, so You must love me. This isn't getting any better, and I've noticed that when I pray to You, everything seems to get better for a bit. So I surrender these thoughts and my mind over to You. Let it get better. Let it get worse. All I know is that You have me, and that's enough."

There was more to it than that, but you get the idea. As I stand now, a bad day is one where I allow a spike to bug me for a couple hours at most. Mind you, I'm not on any meds or engaged in any therapy.

Quite simply, God is in control. He gives me the strength to resist the thoughts. It's only when I myself mess up that the thoughts begin to torment me, and even then He is there to pull me out before I go under.


Listen. You are trying to take on this giant on your own. But you can't. We can only overcome this by God's divine power through His Holy Spirit which is given to all who believe in Jesus and belong to Him.

Take that 1% faith you have and place it in Jesus Christ. In His atoning work and the power of His Blood to cleanse your sins and set you free. All you need is a mustard seed.

So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John 8:36

 

[Anonymous User_]

Grant,

I know I sound like a broken record, but I can't help but stress to you that these mental blocks are OCD, and not a product of any kind of disbelief. As long as you do not deny what you believe when you DO understand the Gospel, your beliefs have not changed! God knows what is past the blocks in your head and what is in your HEART, what you have CHOSEN. If you CHOOSE to trust that Jesus is the way, truth, and life, then it doesn't have to make any sense! You are only going to stress and torment yourself if you try in desperation to push past these blocks. If you have CHOSEN to believe in Christ and your decision hasn't changed, then you are saved, regardless of these mental blocks.
I really hope this helps. PLEASE read what I have suggested! Drive down to Barnes & Noble and do it! Don't pick up any more apologetics, no more devotionals, until you have read something that is written to help you in this kind of situation, not to CHALLENGE the way you are living. Those other books are just fine and hold truth, and are good to read under different circumstances, but an OCD mind will read them and over-analyze and nit-pick everything in them to death until they lose their meaning! Trust me - I've done it!
I am praying for you. God will not let you go through anything that will prove too much for you to handle. There's a light at the end of the tunnel - I promise!