Observations from the teachings of Rev Dr Kevin Rudd

[AnthonyB]

Putting aside the core issue that the recent comments were about I just wanted to comment on some of the underlying assumptions in the comments.

Christian doctrine is that we are all abnormal in two senses.
None of us are now naturally what God intended us to be, so in that sense we are all naturally abnormal.
God expexts us to aim to be better then we currently are, so in that sense we all ought to aim to be abnornal not our natural selves.

What is natural is not necessarily good and what is good is not always natural. I can't help feel that Rev Dr Rudd's arguement was that if something is natural it must therefore be good.

 

[TheDag]

What is natural is not necessarily good and what is good is not always natural. I can't help feel that Rev Dr Rudd's arguement was that if something is natural it must therefore be good.

Rudds biggest problem with the passage he quoted was that he removed it from context. If Paul really supported slavery then why did he instruct slaves to gain their freedom if at all possible and also instruct to not become slaves if you are not a slave. Really doesn't sound like Paul saying slavery is natural to me. Not to mention the story of exodus where Israel was freed from slavery.
Essentially in biblical times slavery was the equivalent of social security. When you became a slave it was temporary where you would be made free after a few years. If you paid off your debt before time was up you could go free. It was seen as shameful if you were set free because time was up rather than actually paying off your debt. The alternative was dying from starvation. What would you choose? Enter into slavery or starve to death? Modern day slavery is a never ending thing. Someone who has studied theology like Rudd supposedly has should know this.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Someone who has studied theology like Rudd supposedly has should know this.

Typical politician trying to appeal to the masses. I doubt theology got much of a look in.

 

[Humble Pie]

Gentile Christians were told to abstain from sexual immorality, blood and food sacrificed to idols and meat strangled. Didn't say anything about anyone else in society.

 

[HasAnswers]

It really peeved me off because K Rudd has been pretending to be a Christian all this time and instead of defending Christianity he goes and ATTACKS it. That's pretty much like Hitler. He pretended to be a Christian to get everyone on his side but then you look at his quotes and he blatantly attacks Christianity. Not that K Rudd is quite as bad as Hitler but you know... ugh.

 

[ebia]

It really peeved me off because K Rudd has been pretending to be a Christian all this time and instead of defending Christianity he goes and ATTACKS it. That's pretty much like Hitler. He pretended to be a Christian to get everyone on his side but then you look at his quotes and he blatantly attacks Christianity. Not that K Rudd is quite as bad as Hitler but you know... ugh.

As opposed to Tony Abbott, who claims to be a Christian but attacks vulnerable, voiceless people seeking help.

 

[Carlotta]

Ebia, if you want to make a stand about the asylum seeker issue you could join the Refugee Action Coalition Rally at 1pm this sunday 29th at Sydney Town Hall. Their key demands are to:
end mandatory detention
free the refugees
close Christmas Island detention centre
no Indonesian solution - let the boats land here

 

[ebia]

Ebia, if you want to make a stand about the asylum seeker issue you could join the Refugee Action Coalition Rally at 1pm this sunday 29th at Sydney Town Hall. Their key demands are to:
end mandatory detention
free the refugees
close Christmas Island detention centre
no Indonesian solution - let the boats land here

I have some very significant issues with RAC, though I broadly support most of those goals. I have other ways of doing something.

 

[Observer]

I believe Tony Abbott & Liberal party is truly evil. They are anti animal welfare. They are anti refugees but will spend billions on immoral things to try and gain revenue. I hate them. I would vote for Labor over Liberal, however I voted for neither of them.

I believe that if divorce is legal in Australia then there is no reason gay marriage shouldn't be, because divorce (for reasons that don't involve adultery) is surely more of an insult to Christian marriage than gay marriage is.

Plus I am doing a degree in health science and it's pretty obvious that some people are homosexual and/or transexual from an extremely young age. I believe there is definitely a biological or genetic reason. Telling them their sexuality is wrong and needs to be changed will be as successful as telling me, a straight woman, that I am wrong and need to be sexually attracted to women. You cannot change your sexuality. It is what it is for most people. God understand humans beings so it's my belief that he would not expect a homosexual person to magically become heterosexual, because in my opinion that is not genuinely possible. Somebody can become used to sexual relations with a sex they don't prefer but it will enver be their true sexuality.

 

[TheDag]

having homosexual tendencies is not sinful in Christian eyes it is actually acting on it that is sinful in the exact same way that a single person is expected to abstain from sex so a person with homosexual tendencies is expected to abstain from sex with the same gender. The bible tells us that people had homosexual desires and God gave them over to their desires and that is when they were condemned. Can't remember exact reason they were given over to their desires but basically because they were rebelling against God.

 

[elephunky]

Gentile Christians were told to abstain from sexual immorality, blood and food sacrificed to idols and meat strangled. Didn't say anything about anyone else in society.

This pretty much.

Also trying to determine whether something is natural therefore must be good...this is hard to really discuss as people see good or natural in different ways.

One could argue that nature is as god created it so wouldnt he then intend it that way etc.

 

[Carlotta]

I truly couldn't care about your opinions because without fact, they are nonsense. I have no wish to enter into a discussion about gay marriage as I am quite clear about where God stands. As lawlessness abounds, it merely shows that the time of Christ's return is nearer, nobody can afford to become disobedient. I know God's will in this matter. I have no desire to debate those who are of the world and will not be answering anyone further on this thread. Where you stand, you will have to explain to Him not to me nor anyone else. I suggest you pray for the government but you must understand that God is sovereign as His Will will be done as He sees fit to do so.

 

[elephunky]

I truly couldn't care about your opinions because without fact, they are nonsense. I have no wish to enter into a discussion about gay marriage as I am quite clear about where God stands. As lawlessness abounds, it merely shows that the time of Christ's return is nearer, nobody can afford to become disobedient. I know God's will in this matter. I have no desire to debate those who are of the world and will not be answering anyone further on this thread. Where you stand, you will have to explain to Him not to me nor anyone else. I suggest you pray for the government but you must understand that God is sovereign as His Will will be done as He sees fit to do so.

If you say so.

I suggest the OP is addressed as it was not asking for a discussion on SSM or homosexuality.

 

[Cooch]

IIRC, the quote about slavery being a natural state of humanity comes from one of the classical Greek philosophers...

The question is, was Krudd deliberately misrepresenting the faith that he claims to value, or does he just not care...

 

[elephunky]

IIRC, the quote about slavery being a natural state of humanity comes from one of the classical Greek philosophers...

The question is, was Krudd deliberately misrepresenting the faith that he claims to value, or does he just not care...

Or maybe he really believed what it was he was saying.

 

[Cooch]

Or maybe he really believed what it was he was saying.

If he cared, he would take care to ensure that he got it right... and very ready to acknowledge and apologise when he gets it wrong.

Who said this is nort a matter of opinion, but a matter of historical fact... Kevin is not entitled to make upm his own facts, or hold to them in the teeth of the evidence.

 

[Carlotta]

Then what was Rudd's interview about then dgirl, please explain your theory since you or someone else has insisted on having the scientific facts dismissing the assumptions made by Rudd that gays are naturally born gay that I presented here removed by admin?

Again, why are atheists even here?

 

[elephunky]

Then what was Rudd's interview about then dgirl, please explain your theory since you or someone else has insisted on having the scientific facts dismissing the assumptions made by Rudd that gays are naturally born gay that I presented here removed by admin?

Discussions about homosexuality are not permitted in this part of the forum.

 

[TheDag]

Again, why are atheists even here?

What are you doing here since you have no interest at all in reading other peoples posts? It has been explained to you several times by several people how this forum works and you once again ignore that and ask the question you have.

 

[Carlotta]

Yes, it is miserable communicating with a bunch of atheists and luke warm Christians and I am quite happy not to read your dribble, however I am not impressed to be sent a complaint regarding a former post which has everything to do with the discussion. Perhaps I should begin complaining about any posts here which describe homosexuality like these two and say they have nothing to do with the discussion and should be removed:

Observer: “Plus I am doing a degree in health science and it's pretty obvious that some people are homosexual and/or transexual from an extremely young age. I believe there is definitely a biological or genetic reason. Telling them their sexuality is wrong and needs to be changed will be as successful as telling me, a straight woman, that I am wrong and need to be sexually attracted to women. You cannot change your sexuality. It is what it is for most people. God understand humans beings so it's my belief that he would not expect a homosexual person to magically become heterosexual, because in my opinion that is not genuinely possible. Somebody can become used to sexual relations with a sex they don't prefer but it will enver be their true sexuality.”

The Dag. “having homosexual tendencies is not sinful in Christian eyes it is actually acting on it that is sinful in the exact same way that a single person is expected to abstain from sex so a person with homosexual tendencies is expected to abstain from sex with the same gender. The bible tells us that people had homosexual desires and God gave them over to their desires and that is when they were condemned. Can't remember exact reason they were given over to their desires but basically because they were rebelling against God.”

And let's go back and examine what Rudd's words were about: “Kevin Rudd compares fight for gay marriage with slavery. KEVIN Rudd has given a passionate defence of same-sex marriage after being challenged by a Christian pastor on the ABC's Q & A show. "People don't choose their sexuality, they are born that way,'' Mr Rudd said.


****I have every right to show that there is no scientific proof that gays are born gay. Unless of course you all want to be biased towards the gay agenda and hide from the truth. I have every right to disprove Rudd’s assertions and false biblical justifications by providing scientific facts showing that a biological link that confirms that homosexuals are born gay does not exist. Rudd is a joke!