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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....
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<blockquote data-quote="public hermit" data-source="post: 75147745" data-attributes="member: 421854"><p>Let's go back to your concise assertion.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The framework in which objective human morality occurs is the framework of human life. Optimal human life and all that works towards that end is the framework. Moreover, there are certain values commensurate to human life. That is, there are certain goods of value that human life needs in order for it to be human life. Humans need food, shelter, clothing, etc. But, human life is more than mere existence. Humans also need meaning, purpose, relationships, leisure, etc. Moral claims that have objective status will be claims in relation to those goods and values that all human life needs</p><p></p><p>Murder is objectively wrong because human life is inherently of value. So long as human life has value, and all that works in favor of human life has value, then there will be objective morality. I think we are in agreement on this, but I am up for correction if I have misunderstood.</p><p></p><p>It is trivial to say that objective morality for humans is subjective. Humans are subjects who value. There may be other kinds of subjects who value (God, angels, aliens, etc.), but our concern is human morality, not morality for all kinds of subjects. Saying that morality is based on human values does not make it any less objective. So long as there is human life, there will be commensurate values because there are goods that all human life needs. Unless we are Platonists, we don't have to think of moral objectivity as a relationship between particular moral acts and some set of ideal standards that exists in a super-sensible realm.</p><p></p><p>That was what I was trying to show by saying that in all possible worlds where human life obtains, there will also be commensurate values (and hence, objective morality). There may be other possible worlds where there is no human life, and in those worlds the relevant values will not obtain. So, what? There also may be some possible worlds where no physical objects exists. In those worlds there will also be an absence of relevant properties commensurate to physical objects. Does that mean the properties of physical objects in worlds where they do exist are not objective since there might be worlds with no such objects or properties? No, of course not. And so it is with human values and the objective morality that obtains for human life. The only thing needed for objective morality relevant to human life is the existence of human life.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="public hermit, post: 75147745, member: 421854"] Let's go back to your concise assertion. The framework in which objective human morality occurs is the framework of human life. Optimal human life and all that works towards that end is the framework. Moreover, there are certain values commensurate to human life. That is, there are certain goods of value that human life needs in order for it to be human life. Humans need food, shelter, clothing, etc. But, human life is more than mere existence. Humans also need meaning, purpose, relationships, leisure, etc. Moral claims that have objective status will be claims in relation to those goods and values that all human life needs Murder is objectively wrong because human life is inherently of value. So long as human life has value, and all that works in favor of human life has value, then there will be objective morality. I think we are in agreement on this, but I am up for correction if I have misunderstood. It is trivial to say that objective morality for humans is subjective. Humans are subjects who value. There may be other kinds of subjects who value (God, angels, aliens, etc.), but our concern is human morality, not morality for all kinds of subjects. Saying that morality is based on human values does not make it any less objective. So long as there is human life, there will be commensurate values because there are goods that all human life needs. Unless we are Platonists, we don't have to think of moral objectivity as a relationship between particular moral acts and some set of ideal standards that exists in a super-sensible realm. That was what I was trying to show by saying that in all possible worlds where human life obtains, there will also be commensurate values (and hence, objective morality). There may be other possible worlds where there is no human life, and in those worlds the relevant values will not obtain. So, what? There also may be some possible worlds where no physical objects exists. In those worlds there will also be an absence of relevant properties commensurate to physical objects. Does that mean the properties of physical objects in worlds where they do exist are not objective since there might be worlds with no such objects or properties? No, of course not. And so it is with human values and the objective morality that obtains for human life. The only thing needed for objective morality relevant to human life is the existence of human life. [/QUOTE]
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