"Obamacare"

Metal Minister · Nov 4, 2012

Ok Merle, here's a question. My mother can now no longer get her teeth fixed because the obamacare law states you cannot put have a flex spending account for more than $2500 per year on dental. She needs $4300 worth of work. She is in terrible pain, and can't eat because of it. Still think this law is so great? Especially considering your strawman of "people dying because of no healthcare" is a crock. It's already federal law that anyone can walk into any emergency room and be taken care of regardless of ability to pay!

doubtingmerle · Nov 4, 2012

Metal Minister said:
Ok Merle, here's a question. My mother can now no longer get her teeth fixed because the obamacare law states you cannot put have a flex spending account for more than $2500 per year on dental. She needs $4300 worth of work. She is in terrible pain, and can't eat because of it.

Under Obamacare she would have insurance to pay for this, so it would be covered.

Flex spending accounts are only money that can be saved back tax free for medical expenses. If the limit was changed down to $2500, all that does is limit her deduction if she pays for it herself.

Flex spending accounts only have minor benefits to the poor, since their tax rate is so low anyway. Flex spending accounts are mainly a tax break for the rich.

Still think this law is so great? Especially considering your strawman of "people dying because of no healthcare" is a crock.

No, that is not a crock. As I mentioned before, multiple studies have shown the link between not be insured and medical deaths. http://www.pnhp.org/excessdeaths/health-insurance-and-mortality-in-US-adults.pdf There may be a question of how many lives, but there is no question that it costs lives.

It's already federal law that anyone can walk into any emergency room and be taken care of regardless of ability to pay!

Correct. We have said that many times on this thread. But that does not change the fact that the patient is still liable to pay for the services. The law just requires the patient must be treated. It does not say you cannot try to collect for services rendered.

As we said before, those without insurance often do not go to the emergency room until it is too late.

Metal Minister · Nov 4, 2012

doubtingmerle said:
Under Obamacare she would have insurance to pay for this, so it would be covered.

Flex spending accounts are only money that can be saved back tax free for medical expenses. If the limit was changed down to $2500, all that does is limit her deduction if she pays for it herself.

Flex spending accounts only have minor benefits to the poor, since their tax rate is so low anyway. Flex spending accounts are mainly a tax break for the rich.

No, that is not a crock. As I mentioned before, multiple studies have shown the link between not be insured and medical deaths. http://www.pnhp.org/excessdeaths/health-insurance-and-mortality-in-US-adults.pdf There may be a question of how many lives, but there is no question that it costs lives.

Correct. We have said that many times on this thread. But that does not change the fact that the patient is still liable to pay for the services. The law just requires the patient must be treated. It does not say you cannot try to collect for services rendered.

As we said before, those without insurance often do not go to the emergency room until it is too late.

You can keep trying to shovel this load of horse manure called obamacare, but personal experience tells me and millions more that no matter how much you shine it, its still a turd!

doubtingmerle · Nov 4, 2012

Metal Minister said:
You can keep trying to shovel this load of horse manure called obamacare, but personal experience tells me and millions more that no matter how much you shine it, its still a turd!

45 million people don't have health insurance in America. Many can not afford basic medical care. They could go to the emergency room, but they could be saddled with bills they cannot pay. So they put off treatment until it is too late. And thousands die each year.

Obamacare is an attempt to solve this problem. Do you have something else to put on the table in its place? Or will you just let them suffer with no hope?

I am sorry, but it is not "turds" to suggest helping the poor with medical expense. Kindness is not the same as "horse manure".

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 4, 2012

Tell me, do you support the individual mandate, and why? Do you support the 15 doctor board who gets to decide what treatments are appropriate for what diseases? Does the fact that 60% of Americans opposed Obamacare, yet pharmaceutical and insurance companies love it, not concern you?

Metal Minister · Nov 4, 2012

doubtingmerle said:
45 million people don't have health insurance in America. Many can not afford basic medical care. They could go to the emergency room, but they could be saddled with bills they cannot pay. So they put off treatment until it is too late. And thousands die each year.

Obamacare is an attempt to solve this problem. Do you have something else to put on the table in its place? Or will you just let them suffer with no hope?

I am sorry, but it is not "turds" to suggest helping the poor with medical expense. Kindness is not the same as "horse manure".

Kindness and caring are fine. Obamacare does nothing to alleviate these problems. These same poor will be forced onto either expensive programs, or pay a penalty! This lines the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies that the left claims to hate so much, bit leaves the biggest problems untouched. The middle class is going to have to absorb a major hit to pay for the extremely limited benefits, and some will be pushed down to the roles of the poor. Spin all you like, the majority of Americans know this is a terrible law, and it needs to be repealed before it destroys our healthcare industry. I work in a hospital, and we are already feeling a major hit from the massive cuts to Medicaid/care.

szechuan · Nov 4, 2012

Metal Minister said:
Kindness and caring are fine. Obamacare does nothing to alleviate these problems. These same poor will be forced onto either expensive programs, or pay a penalty! This lines the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies that the left claims to hate so much, bit leaves the biggest problems untouched. The middle class is going to have to absorb a major hit to pay for the extremely limited benefits, and some will be pushed down to the roles of the poor. Spin all you like, the majority of Americans know this is a terrible law, and it needs to be repealed before it destroys our healthcare industry. I work in a hospital, and we are already feeling a major hit from the massive cuts to Medicaid/care.

No it doesn't many of what makes Obamacare Obamacare isn't even enacted until 2014. Especially the policy for affordability.

szechuan · Nov 4, 2012

Jeffwhosoever said:
Tell me, do you support the individual mandate, and why? Do you support the 15 doctor board who gets to decide what treatments are appropriate for what diseases? Does the fact that 60% of Americans opposed Obamacare, yet pharmaceutical and insurance companies love it, not concern you?

60% of Americans are opposed to portions of Obamacare, not the entirety of it.

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 4, 2012

szechuan said:
60% of Americans are opposed to portions of Obamacare, not the entirety of it.

And Romney said he would keep the better parts of Obamacare.

szechuan · Nov 4, 2012

Jeffwhosoever said:
And Romney said he would keep the better parts of Obamacare.

He also said that he would repeal Obamacare. Even if he said he would keep better parts, he never said what parts.

Assyrian · Nov 5, 2012

I wonder what would happen if, as Romney wants, it was left to individual states to decide if they are going to cover the poor and unemployed? Jeff has said he had relatives with diabetes when he was growing up who had no insurance but had access to insulin. He wouldn't say what state that is though (which in itself is understandable you don't give out information like that on the internet if you don't want to). But it raises a question if one state provides treatment for people with chronic illness who have no insurance, and another state refuses, won't you just end up with a stream of the chronic sick moving to the states that provide treatment?

I can just imagine the right wing rhetoric in years to come saying:
RyanCare states have lower death rates for diabetes than liberal nanny states.
Which would be true if everyone with diabetes has fled the states with Don'tCare.

doubtingmerle · Nov 5, 2012

T

Jeffwhosoever said:
Tell me, do you support the individual mandate, and why?

Yes, if you are going to have a plan in which companies need to insure those with existing conditions, then the only way you can do that is to have the mandate. Romney knew that. That is why he had the mandate in his plan.

Do you support the 15 doctor board who gets to decide what treatments are appropriate for what diseases?

This is a complete fabrication. Lets focus on reality, please.

Does the fact that 60% of Americans opposed Obamacare, yet pharmaceutical and insurance companies love it, not concern you?

Yes.

doubtingmerle · Nov 5, 2012

Metal Minister said:
Kindness and caring are fine. Obamacare does nothing to alleviate these problems. These same poor will be forced onto either expensive programs, or pay a penalty!

Sure it does. Obamacare is a plan so that all will have insurance and healthcare.

45 million Americans have no insurance. Thousands die each year because they have no insurance. What would you do to fix that?

The middle class is going to have to absorb a major hit to pay for the extremely limited benefits, and some will be pushed down to the roles of the poor.

Oh, please. The hit on the middle class is minimal.

Currently we spend millions on treating the uninsured in emergency rooms after it is too late. If we could catch these things earlier, it would cost much less. The CBO see this as actually reducing our deficit. Updated CBO Estimate Of Affordable Care Act Still Says It Will Help Many Millions And Reduce The Deficit. But Fewer Will Get Coverage If States Opt Out Of Medicaid Expansion. | The New Republic

What is your alternative? Just let thousands die? If not, then what is your alternative.

doubtingmerle · Nov 5, 2012

Jeffwhosoever said:
And Romney said he would keep the better parts of Obamacare.

Right, he said he would keep the coverage for pre-existing conditions. However, he knows full well that he cannot do that without doing mandates and some of the other provisions of the plan. That is why he included mandates in his state plan.

Romney has no plan for health care. What would he do to fix things?

"Obamacare"

New Year, Still Old School!

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New Year, Still Old School!

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Faithful Servant & Seminary Student

New Year, Still Old School!

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Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

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