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Fervent

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So do you think its just when person2 and 3 will be saved, but person1 goes to eternal punishment?
Would you accuse God of injustice? Is He not the judge of all, knowing even the secrets of men's hearts not merely outward appearance?
 
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jhjhh

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Would you accuse God of injustice? Is He not the judge of all, knowing even the secrets of men's hearts not merely outward appearance?
My answer is that it would not be just judgment, what's is your opinion?

LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart. Kjv Psalm 15
 
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Mark Quayle

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Just judgement would be all go to hell, because we all deserve it. But he is merciful to some. How is that unjust, unless to Christ who didn't deserve it?
 
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jhjhh

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Just judgement would be all go to hell, because we all deserve it. But he is merciful to some. How is that unjust, unless to Christ who didn't deserve it?
Living here and then all to everlasting punishment? Would you call that good life/life after system? Create humans a little while, then throw them to everlasting punishment no matter how they have lived?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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The scripture says God does not show favoritism.

The uneven ground we stand on is related to sin's effect on creation, and how it affects our bodies and minds.

Here is a useful passage that relates to this subject matter from perspective of the previous era:

Ezekiel 18
21 ¶ But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
 
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Mark Quayle

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Living here and then all to everlasting punishment? Would you call that good life/life after system? Create humans a little while, then throw them to everlasting punishment no matter how they have lived?
We are all sinners. Yeah, that's what we deserve. But no, I didn't say he created for that purpose. I said he had mercy on some, as he had planned from the beginning.
 
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Fervent

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I would not dare accuse God of injustice. If He did not guard the one who spoke blasphemy, it would be because something in that person's heart. We see only outward things, but God knows the heart and judges accordingly. Ultimately, what is righteous is that we believe God and part of that is recognizing our own judgments can err but His never does.
 
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jhjhh

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Not completely sure what you mean with outward things. Would say my self-examination does involve inward things. If the iniquity was that strong that it made him say it.
 
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jhjhh

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We are all sinners. Yeah, that's what we deserve. But no, I didn't say he created for that purpose. I said he had mercy on some, as he had planned from the beginning.

You are in church others praise god. You decide to praise god too, because its considered good thing to do yet in your heart you feel like you dont want to praise at all.

8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. kjv matthew 15:8-9
 
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Mark Quayle

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I'm having trouble following your thinking here. Why are you now talking about a church worship service? What does your scenario, here, have to do with the ongoing discussion?
 
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jhjhh

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I'm having trouble following your thinking here. Why are you now talking about a church worship service? What does your scenario, here, have to do with the ongoing discussion?
Its comment of do you really think this way in your heart.
 
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Hmm

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Its comment of do you really think this way in your heart.

It's a good comment. People are capable of thinking all kinds of silliness about God! Of course, if your idea of God is that He's like a human boss with whinsical favourites then you are going to miss out on having a relationship with Him that is based on trust and love.
 
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jhjhh

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not necessiary, but i wouldnt be suprised if another person is more blessed than the other. Or some have gotten more talents than the other.

48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. NKJV luke 12:48


20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. NKJV 2 Timothy 2:20-21

For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. NKJV Matthew 13:12
 
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mlepfitjw

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Hi Jhj, Yeah some people might be blessed more than others. That can be due to a lot of factors. Especially if you look at it viewing the outside structure of man.

Though for God and the way he sees inside of looking at our heart and us as believers, we are all equally blessed by the Lord Jesus Christ and the fact that he paid for all of our sins on the cross, and was risen again.

When it comes to believers only ; they are given the spirit, they are given the ability to have relationship with God through prayer, they suffer equally because we are all human.

When it comes to people who openly reject and do not believe in God; they are without a relationship with God, without the spirit that is able to change the inner man; though their sins have been paid for their lack of faith, and rejection of God hurts them in a lot of ways. Having their mind on the earth, rather than heavenly things, such as God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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jhjhh

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We are all sinners. Yeah, that's what we deserve. But no, I didn't say he created for that purpose. I said he had mercy on some, as he had planned from the beginning.
So do you believe Gods system is just and fair? Blasheming himself is worst of all sins and even further calls that to be unpardonable. Are you afraid to answer to my example? Is it just that this pastor would go to hell while these other two would be saved? Some other creator could just tell us how to live and afterwards according to how each have liven give them punishment or reward. And some other creator might care more about people and wont let them be tortured by unseen creatures. Think who even creates such nightmare to be possible, is that the great, holy and loving god? People living so nicely and happily that they seem to forget realities. You might not even know whats going on behind what you dont see. You have no idea how deeply i have suffered.

You speak againts dictator you might get killed.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I assume that you are referring to the following I had not seen (and so didn't answer). Had to look a bit to find it:


Wow, it doesn't look to me like either the first or third are of the Elect --they are not saved-- and the second, I'm not so sure --you aren't very specific what you mean by "comes in faith" but I guess since you assert that he will be saved that he will be. The Elect are unable to commit the unpardonable sin, because only those whose sins are pardoned will see the Kindgom of Heaven, and none of the Elect will be lost.

Your current question is revealing about you some of your assumptions behind your 3 examples.

1. More holy and just according to whom? And here you seem to forget that the Bible says that all that the Father gives to the Son will indeed be with him forever. What God has begun, he will complete. (A further note: What even well-seasoned Christians may think is the unpardonable sin reminds me of a child telling their parent, "I hate you". It may sadden the parent, but the fit of rage is only that, and the words don't mean much.)

2. That a person who "comes in faith" (I assume you mean, be regenerated and repent), who is unproductive in the eyes of some is unproductive in the eyes of God, or more to the point, is not precisely where God had in mind for that person at that point in life. There is no "typical" 1-year old Christian to use for reference here.

3. You seem not to know that those God has regenerated will by their change of heart and mind want to be holy.

4. ...And now your current question:

Agreed I have no idea how deeply you have suffered, nor do you have any idea how deeply Christ suffered --and no, I'm not talking physical pain there, either.

Not to make little of what Christ refers to as the unpardonable sin, but it could be said that all sin is blasphemy against God, and is calling the Holy Spirit a liar. Sin is that serious a thing.

But all that aside, I don't take your examples to be representative of reality, nor do I take your accusations of God seriously. He is just and fair, and you have nothing to throw at him. You sound like a child throwing a tantrum. If God says, even in Ezekiel 12:33, "...'The righteousness of the righteous man will not save him when he disobeys, and the wickedness of the wicked man will not cause him to fall when he turns from it. ... If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it.' ", are you going to call him unjust, or maybe rather, merciful to the undeserving? Have you any idea how bad evil is?

It is hard enough for my mind to deal with the idea that God would create something that is outside (or other-than) himself, but that that creature should be able to rebel against him is more than I can soak in. Yet here we are.

And in the end, can you say that any righteous works of man deserve God's respect?
 
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jhjhh

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Its really not that complicated. Whoever believes in jesus will be saved. No point to start making if, ifs.
 
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