not sure what to do , borderline tempted to cheat

LinkH said:

Women will tell you that if you want to be intimate more with your wife to be romantic, do housework, be gentle, loving, and kind. A wife might even tell her husband that, but still no increase in the sex. I read something once that said that women think they want that, but really they may want a guy who is kind of macho. The kind of guy who is in good shape, decisive, irrationally self-confident, who won't put up with her junk if she tries to manipulate him or treat him disrespectfully. If she asks him if a dress makes her behind look fat, he says like a whale, and smacks her on the behind. But if he is always saying 'yes, dear' and doing another load of laundry, and gives in when she asks for unreasonable stuff or gets rude or manipulative with him, then she finds herself not attracted to him. It was interesting reading. It would explain why the cheerleaders in high school were attracted to the most obnoxious jocks and why a timid wife who is rarely intimate with her husband would run off with some wild biker or rock drummer. While I'm not sure about all that

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I am sure about all that- that if you keep reading such advice and follow it, you are likely to someday find yourself a divorced man. The immature cheerleader in high school might be snookered but after a couple decades of it a wife will be sick and tired of it.

It sounds like a manual for verbal abuse and selfishness to me, not a teaching on how to be Christlike.

I LOVE when my husband is kind and sensitive to the children rather than verbally abusive.

And I love when he does housework. For >20 years he wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole and that did not endear him to me. In fact I find it the opposite of Christlikeness. Christ took the towel and did the job of the lowest slave in the house and then told his disciples to follow his example. John 13

OP should court his wife- date her and spend time talking to her like he did to win her in the first place (and drop the accusation and blame regarding what he sowed into their marriage through his bad choices).

"not sure what to do , borderline tempted to cheat"

The way Jesus handled temptation was to quote Scripture. I have done this and not only does it work but it helped me to grow in my relationship with the Lord as I saw how powerful the Gospel is at setting me free,

Here is a list of Scriptures you might try: What Does the Bible Say About Sexual Purity?

4Bear said:

I am sure about all that- that if you keep reading such advice and follow it, you are likely to someday find yourself a divorced man. The immature cheerleader in high school might be snookered but after a couple decades of it a wife will be sick and tired of it.

It sounds like a manual for verbal abuse and selfishness to me, not a teaching on how to be Christlike.

I LOVE when my husband is kind and sensitive to the children rather than verbally abusive.

And I love when he does housework. For >20 years he wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole and that did not endear him to me. In fact I find it the opposite of Christlikeness. Christ took the towel and did the job of the lowest slave in the house and then told his disciples to follow his example. John 13

OP should court his wife- date her and spend time talking to her like he did to win her in the first place (and drop the accusation and blame regarding what he sowed into their marriage through his bad choices).

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ITA.

Slapping your wife on the rear and tellilng her she looks like a whale is not respectful. It's illogical to me that the exhortation is that the wife should be respectful to the husband but not vice versa.

Blind post: She needs to grow the hell up and give you what you need more often than she is and do so with more enthusiasm, even if it is faked for your sake. You need to grow the hell up and realize that God has a problem with adultery for a reason. You're going to be a FATHER and if you cheat on your wife, you are also cheating on your little one and not exactly giving him or her a great start in life. Also, you need to understand that your wife is pregnant and probably has a whole lot of weird uncomfortable stuff going on with her body that may make actual sex uncomfortable and unappealing to even a woman that has a high sex drive. Alternatives to sex are at least an effort. There just needs to be much more frequent effort and more enthusiasm about it.

ETA: If you are going to leave, just leave. Why cheat on someone?

hosannah said:

My marriage will not end unless she ends it. I am completely in the Will of the Holy Spirit now. (she is atheist) as far as I can tell the scripture says I have to abide with her as long as she is willing to co-habitate with me.

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Not true.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment to all of those that are advising this guy...because well...it just seems fair and right to do...lol

First of all - I understand that a lot of y'all have issues surrounding pornography. That's all well and good - and I would never try to dissuade you from your point of view. But - in giving advice - I think it's important to remove yourself and your feelings from the equation and listen to what the person is actually saying and what their situation is.

No matter how you feel about porn, does it stand to reason to think that a woman who on her own choice watches/gratifies herself to porn is all so offended by his prior usage of it that this is the source of her past/current denial? That makes no sense to me at all. So, whether or not he consumed porn in the past, right or wrong, I have a hard time believing (presuming what he's saying is true) that his porn consumption so hurt/offended her that she still hasn't gotten over it.

Next - with respect to "being there for her"... Simply put - I think there's a weird discord between women and men when it comes to this kind of stuff. Just as it continually gets said that "a woman won't feel the desire to be sexual if her emotional needs aren't being meet" - most often it's also equally true to say "a man won't feel the desire to be emotionally supportive if his sexual needs aren't being met."

From a man's perspective, let's say what he says as a progression is true, I can totally see how it evolved to where it is now. She starts denying (for whatever reason), he starts withdrawing. No man is looking for a roomate to which he is forever sexually bound - without sex. He apparently believes as such, with how he continually talks about how she's "just like a room-mate". I do not know a man alive that deeply longs to cuddle with a room-mate, with no sex. It's almost laughable as a proposition.

All else being equal, where the option of sex is understood to be denied (because you offend me so), I'd venture to say that cuddling/talking about feelings/emotional bonding holds maybe slightly more appeal to most men than a root canal. When the possibility of sex is expressly/understood to be denied - I'd venture to say that most men would rather just leave the room and watch tv.

...and most men certainly would begin to resent the impression that they should be doing those things - while simultaneously being made to feel there's something so fundamentally wrong with them that sex is not even on the table. Most men don't need that kind of room-mate.

Ya know how women have that book "He's just not that into you"? Well - that's the first thing that pops into my mind when reading this - only the other way around.

That being said - it's stupid as heck that he got her pregnant.

EZoolander said:

No matter how you feel about porn, does it stand to reason to think that a woman who on her own choice watches/gratifies herself to porn is all so offended by his prior usage of it that this is the source of her past/current denial? That makes no sense to me at all. So, whether or not he consumed porn in the past, right or wrong, I have a hard time believing (presuming what he's saying is true) that his porn consumption so hurt/offended her that she still hasn't gotten over it.

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I'm not sure if she is or isn't. Frankly, I expect you're right in that she didn't care about the porn, persay. However, I still brought it up because if he used it to the degree that it was an addiction, a substitute for marital intimacy, you have to admit, liking porn or not, that is going to take him from the marriage to a pretty impactful degree. Like if I played video games until 3am every day, making no time or effort to have any sort of intimacy with my partner because I think he wouldn't be interested, and now I've got to do something else to fill my time... That's going to hurt the marriage. Then to have that be the dynamic for the better part of a decade, to suddenly quit games and say "now I'm not gaming, lets have sex instead," you've got to admit... That's not going to create a great situation. Regardless of what the chosen distraction was.

EZoolander said:

First of all - I understand that a lot of y'all have issues surrounding pornography. That's all well and good - and I would never try to dissuade you from your point of view. But - in giving advice - I think it's important to remove yourself and your feelings from the equation and listen to what the person is actually saying and what their situation is.

No matter how you feel about porn, does it stand to reason to think that a woman who on her own choice watches/gratifies herself to porn is all so offended by his prior usage of it that this is the source of her past/current denial? That makes no sense to me at all. So, whether or not he consumed porn in the past, right or wrong, I have a hard time believing (presuming what he's saying is true) that his porn consumption so hurt/offended her that she still hasn't gotten over it.

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I wasn't offended by my husband's porn usage. I never felt threatened by one dimensional images on a computer screen.

What offended me was the abuse, the attitude of entitlement, the selfishness, the objectification and attitude of utilitarianism, and the neglect that went with the habit.

Tropical Wilds said:

I'm not sure if she is or isn't. Frankly, I expect you're right in that she didn't care about the porn, persay. However, I still brought it up because if he used it to the degree that it was an addiction, a substitute for marital intimacy, you have to admit, liking porn or not, that is going to take him from the marriage to a pretty impactful degree. Like if I played video games until 3am every day, making no time or effort to have any sort of intimacy with my partner because I think he wouldn't be interested, and now I've got to do something else to fill my time... That's going to hurt the marriage. Then to have that be the dynamic for the better part of a decade, to suddenly quit games and say "now I'm not gaming, lets have sex instead," you've got to admit... That's not going to create a great situation. Regardless of what the chosen distraction was.

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Absolutely true.

I just wonder how people would ever get out of the "chicken and the egg" types of discussions that inevitably would then arise.

4Bear said:

I wasn't offended by my husband's porn usage. I never felt threatened by one dimensional images on a computer screen.

What offended me was the abuse, the attitude of entitlement, the selfishness, the objectification and attitude of utilitarianism, and the neglect that went with the habit.

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That's how you feel with respect to the issue, however.

Does it stand to reason, though, that if his wife is pleasuring herself to porn that she does not share those same feelings of entitlement, selfishness, objectification and utilitarianism (and arguably - neglect)? So either she's a huge hypocrite - or that ain't the issue.

My guess is that she just ain't all that in to him.

EZoolander said:

That's how you feel with respect to the issue, however.

Does it stand to reason, though, that if his wife is pleasuring herself to porn that she does not share those same feelings of entitlement, selfishness, objectification and utilitarianism (and arguably - neglect)? So either she's a huge hypocrite - or that ain't the issue.

My guess is that she just ain't all that in to him.

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She does so occasionally. He did so heavily and habitually, as an addict, for 7 years. Huge difference. Not between the right and wrong of it as far as the activity itself is concerned, but in how the quantity of time spent doing that activity will affect that person and their (especially) primary relationship.

I don't know many wives who WILL be "all that into" their husbands after 7 admitted years of emotional neglect. That's just how the cookie crumbles. It's not un-fixable but they're going to need a lot of professional help IMO.

Granted.

I'm curious as to his motivations, though, and I know I'm opening a can of "which came first" worms in this...but what the heck.

To the OP -

During your seven years of porn indulgence - did you choose that because it was your preferred avenue? Or - did you choose it because you perceived any advances you'd make toward your wife would be rebuffed and it was a foregone conclusion that sex just wasn't on the table?

hijklmnop said:

I don't know many wives who WILL be "all that into" their husbands after 7 admitted years of emotional neglect. That's just how the cookie crumbles. It's not un-fixable but they're going to need a lot of professional help IMO.

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Isn't it equally possible that being "not into him" is rather just a consequence of situation - rather than a product of some misdeed on his part?

Just looking at his age...I'm guessing his wife is either the same age or a little bit younger. Then factor in how long they've been married. Obviously they got together relatively young...and ya know...feelings/tastes/desires are fickle things. Things change - especially during those formative times.

When I was single - there were simply a lot of people I could never envision myself being "into"...and no amount of work on their part could ever change that. Some people just would inevitably fall into the "friend" camp - meaning - I would never want to see them naked - I would never want to "be" with them - etc. My lack of interest was in no way a consequence of anything they did/did not do - but was purely circumstantial. They just didn't "do it" for me - for whatever reason.

Given that this stuff apparently started happening at such an early point in their relationship - isn't it just as likely (if not possibly more likely) that the continual declination of their relationship - from the very onset growing into what it became - was simply a byproduct of "whoops - you just aren't my type"?

EZoolander said:

Isn't it equally possible that being "not into him" is rather just a consequence of situation - rather than a product of some misdeed on his part?

Just looking at his age...I'm guessing his wife is either the same age or a little bit younger. Then factor in how long they've been married. Obviously they got together relatively young...and ya know...feelings/tastes/desires are fickle things. Things change - especially during those formative times.

When I was single - there were simply a lot of people I could never envision myself being "into"...and no amount of work on their part could ever change that. Some people just would inevitably fall into the "friend" camp - meaning - I would never want to see them naked - I would never want to "be" with them - etc. My lack of interest was in no way a consequence of anything they did/did not do - but was purely circumstantial. They just didn't "do it" for me - for whatever reason.

Given that this stuff apparently started happening at such an early point in their relationship - isn't it just as likely (if not possibly more likely) that the continual declination of their relationship - from the very onset growing into what it became - was simply a byproduct of "whoops - you just aren't my type"?

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It's also difficult of course to openly and practically recognize that early in a relationship once you get married. There are people I know for example who admitted that they'd had serious second thoughts before their wedding but didn't voice them for a variety of reasons, or who had them not long after they were married but felt stupid about it, or felt that it might just be a passing phase, etc. It's very hard to admit simply: "I think we made a mistake; I'm just not that into you."

EZoolander, you wanted to know what came first, the chicken or egg. Here is from the OP

Not long after we got together, maybe a year, the intimacy almost completely died down. Virtually from her lack of wanting it. Perhaps lower libido or whatever you call it, I do not know. From that point on, we were intimate on average 6-8 times per year, if that some years.

After a while (it didn't take long) rather than cheat at the time, I fell in to pornography. at first it wasn't that often - once or twice a week to fend off the "wolves" but as with any drug, I became physically and mentally addicted to it.

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Imo, this was the wrong approach at the time, and there were healthier ways to deal with it. Since then, though, his wife also at some point turned to porn. So here you have a couple who has each turned to porn and self-gratification rather than turning towards each other for intimacy. This is one of the marriage-killers, according to Dr. Gottman.

TW made a lot of excellent points in her discussion. And of course, we only hear the OP's side of the story. Things take time to heal, and it sounds like this marriage could be healed as long as the OP does not get selfish and turn towards an affair. When couples on the brink of divorce work together to fix the issues, you never hear them later say they regret doing the work. Instead, it increases the love and intimacy between them. You do hear, however, of people who have affairs, later say they regret it.

I read the OP as the thread took shape last evening, and from what I could see, this OP seems willing to take responsibility for some of the things - like turning to porn, and getting his wife pregnant when maybe he shouldn't. But for the most part, I see more blame than anything else. Example being, that he turned to porn because (blame) she deprived him of sex. IOW, if she had provided him with enough sex, he would not have turned to porn. So I see a lot of blame, and expect that if he decided to have an affair, he would blame her for that as well.

This is a boundaries issue. He needs to learn that he is responsible for his own actions in spite of her actions. He needs to know that whatever he does, he does to God, not just to his wife. Just because she does not give him enough sex, does not give him the right to go and have an affair because that would be sin against her, but would also grieve the Spirit.

To the OP, you have stopped your porn use. Your wife still uses it. What would happen if you talk about her use of it, and how rather than turning to porn, you would prefer if she would turn to you. You could explain how this would increase your intimacy and strengthen your resolve to love her and remain committed to her and to the marriage.

Hetta said:

ITA.

Slapping your wife on the rear and tellilng her she looks like a whale is not respectful. It's illogical to me that the exhortation is that the wife should be respectful to the husband but not vice versa.

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I was talking something I'd read, not saying a man should slap his wife on the behind and say she looks like a whale.

No, I don't see Jesus doing that. My point in bringing that up and some girls and women running off with the 'bad boy' type was that some women are attracted to 'strong', confident men, and I talked about how ways Jesus was a strong confident leader in the post.

I do think there is some truth to the idea that women will say they want their husband to bring them more flowers and do more dishes, but if he does it, they don't feel more sexually attracted to them, but if he becomes more confident and bolder in life, gets in better shape, and things like that, it might attract her. It depends on the man, and on the marriage.

LinkH said:

I was talking something I'd read, not saying a man should slap his wife on the behind and say she looks like a whale.

No, I don't see Jesus doing that. My point in bringing that up and some girls and women running off with the 'bad boy' type was that some women are attracted to 'strong', confident men, and I talked about how ways Jesus was a strong confident leader in the post.

I do think there is some truth to the idea that women will say they want their husband to bring them more flowers and do more dishes, but if he does it, they don't feel more sexually attracted to them, but if he becomes more confident and bolder in life, gets in better shape, and things like that, it might attract her. It depends on the man, and on the marriage.

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I can agree with you there. Sometimes I see men that complain about their sex life with their wife as the guys in college that couldn't get a date(early porn users turn into porn addicts). Me I'm trying to tone it down and work on my arrogance but I'm to confident to watch another man enjoy himself while I can't have sex with my own wife it just seems lame. Like the kid in the dorm room never going to any parties but he finally gets married and he still doesn't know who he is and have confidence in how women see him.

It's not about how you keep the house ect it's about how you come off. Women don't like wimps, they want a strong, intelligent man that can sweep them off their feet. My arrogance gets on my wife's nerves but the more confident I become the more attracted to me it seems to make her, so their is a balance.

I Corinthians 7:6
" Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. "

OP, my original response to you was the boiled-down, bare-knuckle view. I still believe it because God did not design sex to work with one person withholding sex. Take the fan belt off your car and see how far your car will go.

When men/women get into this sex debate over depriving I notice a lot of blame then it gets nowhere. Your wife COULD deal with the baggage she brought with her to the marriage, you could get guidance and God could heal the marriage. I really hope that happens, esp with the child. However, in my experience it doesn't usually turn,sad to say.

The above scripture sums it for me: husbands/wives BOTH are commanded not to deprive sex. (PERIOD) They can take a timeout if BOTH agree. If they elect to deprive they cause their spouse toward sin. She abandoned you sexually, put you at risk for porn, for some men a hooker, or a cute secretary. You sin, she had sinned, the whole house falls down. Even with your most honored intentions you are wide open for Satan's darts. God didn't design marriage to work that way.

Avniel said:

It's not about how you keep the house ect it's about how you come off. Women don't like wimps, they want a strong, intelligent man that can sweep them off their feet. My arrogance gets on my wife's nerves but the more confident I become the more attracted to me it seems to make her, so their is a balance.

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I don't think there is any connection between doing dishes and sweeping floors and an improvement in your sex life. Maybe there could be for a few guys who don't do any of that stuff. If my wife was supposed to do the dishes one night but was exhausted and fell asleep, saving them toward morning, and I stay up till the wee hours of the morning doing the dishes, it's because I love her and want to save her the hassle the next day (and because I don't like roaches ), not because I expect her to be turned because I did the dishes.