Not one stone will be left upon another

[Andy S]

I ran into a website entitled "God is imaginary" and proof #11 proving that God is imaginary says:

"Notice that there is no scientific evidence

There is no scientific evidence indicating that God exists. We all know that. For example:

God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth.

None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either."
website: godisimaginary (I can't give link because I don't have 50 posts yet). The proof # is 11.


Christian apologists use Mark 13:2, Matthew 24:2 and Luke 21:6 and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD as proof of "physical evidence" that Jesus was a prophet and miracle worker. Do these christian apologists have an argument? Do all Christian apologist say that this was fulfilled prophecy? Is the western wall that is still standing considered to be part of the temple? Is this a false prophecy because this wall is still standing? Could Matthew and Mark have been written after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD? Is the "God is imaginary" website right in saying that none of Jesus' miracles left any physical evidence? Or does Mark 13:2, Matt. 24:2 and Luke 21:6 give evidence for Jesus actually being able to look into the future? Arguments for and against please.

I look forward to learning more from the intelligent individuals on this forum!

 

[Unix]

It's entirely probable that Jesus looked into the future:

Or does Mark 13:2, Matt. 24:2 and Luke 21:6 give evidence for Jesus actually being able to look into the future? Arguments for and against please.

Most Christian scholars who date the Gospels late, say that it's because Jesus couldn't have predicted that.

But most scholars do believe that Jesus predicted.

 

[St_Worm2]

I ran into a website entitled "God is imaginary" and proof #11 proving that God is imaginary says:

Hi Andy, first off, don't let these guys get to you. Their rants hardly have your good, or anyone else's, in mind. That said, you also need to understand that NONE of what they're saying is new and there are answers to rebut each one of their statements or questions. You continue:

Christian apologists use Mark 13:2, Matthew 24:2 and Luke 21:6 and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD as proof of "physical evidence" that Jesus was a prophet and miracle worker. Do these christian apologists have an argument? Do all Christian apologist say that this was fulfilled prophecy? Is the western wall that is still standing considered to be part of the temple? Is this a false prophecy because this wall is still standing? Could Matthew and Mark have been written after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD? Is the "God is imaginary" website right in saying that none of Jesus' miracles left any physical evidence? Or does Mark 13:2, Matt. 24:2 and Luke 21:6 give evidence for Jesus actually being able to look into the future? Arguments for and against please.

I look forward to learning more from the intelligent individuals on this forum!

In answer to some of your questions above, yes, all the commentators I've read point to this prediction being fulfilled in AD 70. I'm sure you could say that this points to Christ knowing the future, but I'm not sure how it would point to Him being a "miracle worker".

As for what was foretold and what actually happened, the "Wailing (or Western) Wall" is a retaining wall and part of the massive foundation called the temple mount. It was not part of the temple proper, so what was predicted by Christ in Mark 13:2, was exactly what happened (see below).

He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, "Teacher, behold what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!" And Jesus said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down." Mark 13:1-2
​

In 70 AD, the Roman general, Titus, burned the temple with such heat that the stones literally crumbled and turned to rubble and dust, the remains of which were then swept clean from the temple mount and thrown into the Kidron Valley. The "Wailing Wall" remained, but as I said, it was not one of the "great buildings" that the Lord, or His disciples, were discussing in Mark 13. Christ could have also been speaking metaphorically I suppose, but what I said above seems to fit the context best, IMHO anyway.

As far as evidence for God's existence, that will have to be part of another post and will require study time on your part if you really want to become at all familiar with the facts. In any case, this is certainly enough for this post ..

--David
p.s. - I'm not sure I'd be classified as one of the "intelligent individuals" on this forum, but I told you what I know anyway.

 

[Andy S]

It's entirely probable that Jesus looked into the future:



But most scholars do believe that Jesus predicted.

Do you know what the evidence is that at least one of the synoptic gospels was written before 70 AD? When you say "it's entirely probable that Jesus looked into the future", what is the probability? What evidence are you basing this claim on?

 

[St_Worm2]

When you say "it's entirely probable that Jesus looked into the future", what is the probability?

I hope you two don't mind me jumping in here, but "what is the probability" of our omniscient God knowing the future? I'm going with 'pretty good' ..

What evidence are you basing this claim on?

In the immediate context, that the Lord told us exactly what was going to happen (the Temple would be destroyed) about 40 years before it did!!

--David

 

[Andy S]

I hope you two don't mind me jumping in here, but "what is the probability" of our omniscient God knowing the future? I'm going with 'pretty good' ..



In the immediate context, that the Lord told us exactly what was going to happen (the Temple would be destroyed) about 40 years before it did!!

--David

Thanks St. Worm for the feedback. Regarding your first point, I don't know if Jesus ever claimed to be omniscient since he plead ignorance to His second coming (Mark 13:32).

Regarding your second point. I want to investigate this. How do we know that the New Testament writers didn't write this after the fact to make it seem like prophecy. Is there any evidence that shows the synoptic gospels were written before 70 AD?

Can you give me the historian that documented the destruction of the temple the way you described it in your first post? Thanks St. Worm! I am an agnostic flirting with Christianity and I would really like to investigate this prophecy. This is the only prophecy that left any physical evidence (in my opinion) if it is truly a prophecy.

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

Daniel also predicts the Temple and citys destruction in 70ad


Daniel 9:26 after Jesus is crucified

And the PEOPLE (of the prince that shall come - Antichrist)
shall destroy the city and the sanctuary and the end of thereof shall be with a flood......

27) and HE (Prince that is to come) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week (7 years) this is the offical start at Revelation 6:2
the prince is a roman!