non-violence question

L.J. · Dec 12, 2011

How do the Anabaptist church feel about someone who works for a company that builds things as ships for the Navy, or Aircraft for the Airforce. Would that compromise their non-violence stance?
Thanks in advance

Basil the Great · Dec 13, 2011

My family lost their Mennonite faith on both my mom and dad's sides about six generations back, so I will not pretend to speak for them here. However, I do not know how someone who considers themselves a pacifist could justify being involved with the building of a weapon of war.

jimfish · Jan 3, 2012

Each anabaptist, who is hopefully also born-again and not just born-into, must "most likely" decide for themselves, between them and God, as to to what degree they apply the non-government involvement part of anabaptism to their Christian walk. We as NT believers are under the Law of the Conscience, after all.

For example, one anabaptist might believe that they are not to defend themselves, but may defend a spouse or children or country; whereas another anabaptist might believe they are to be pacifistic against both themselves and all others. An anabaptist might even evolve from one degree of pacifism to another over the course of his walk, and maybe even back again. It might depend upon a degree of faith, a level of maturity/further "enlightenment," or whatever.

In short, anabaptism "probably" should not be some legalistic approach to a fuller Gospel, but ammendments to one's spiritual journey with Christ, as He leads, by Grace.

The Counsel at Jerusalem with the Apostles, already laid out the extent of the beneficial-to-the-church-at-large "legalistic" rules.

(Side note: During times of a draft, the government itself also likely would dictate to what degree a religious pacifist could exclude themselves from war-like activity, as I believe my memory of history has dictated--not very reliable.)

alton3 · Jan 4, 2012

L.J. said:
How do the Anabaptist church feel about someone who works for a company that builds things as ships for the Navy, or Aircraft for the Airforce.

Probably the same as someone who works for a company that makes silverware. It isn't a weapon until someone (else) uses it as one.

Remember that Anabaptist non-violence and non-resistance is based in the Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon on the Plain in the Gospels and in 1 Peter, among others. These verses have more to do with personal conduct than peripherally aiding and abetting the military industrial complex. There's a fairly bright line.

woolgathering · Jan 4, 2012

The Plough website has a .pdf of an early anabaptist writing on non-violence called
Concerning The Sword
A Hutterian Apologia of 1577
Its author is not named but was probably the Hutterian bishop Peter Walpot (1521-1578).

BusterBrown · Jan 8, 2012

WayneinMaine · Jan 8, 2012

woolgathering said:
The Plough website has a .pdf of an early anabaptist writing on non-violence called
Concerning The Sword
A Hutterian Apologia of 1577
Its author is not named but was probably the Hutterian bishop Peter Walpot (1521-1578).

That is a good catch, woolgathering. From the article we read:

"Even if I personally did not want to be an arsonist, yet paid someone else for that purpose; even if Ito be precise, myselfdid not want to do something, yet paid someone else to do it, and then authorized that person to go; indeed, if I were an enemy of a magistrate or ruling lord, yet did not want to strangle him with my own hands, but instead equipped and sent someone else to carry out this deed; would I then not be punished as a murderer, as if I had carried out the deed myself? Indeed, most certainly I would, and with good reason! In this same manner, and even more so, God will bring punishment upon someone who personally does not shed blood but allows others to fight in war in his or her stead, compensating and supporting them. These alternatives are one and the same, and before God merit the same reward. "

This was undoubtedly the practice among the early Anabaptists; to avoid all contribution to the world's warfare, vengence, and retribution. Unfortunately most Mennonites, Amish, Hutterites and Brethren are less inclined today to be so separate (and perhaps have 'the sword' applied to them.)

On a personal level, I have declined the best options for my career by avoiding employment in the "military industrial complex", going all the way back to Ronald Reagan's SDI programs (though In was sorely tempted!)

SandyKay · Apr 8, 2012

L.J. said:
How do the Anabaptist church feel about someone who works for a company that builds things as ships for the Navy, or Aircraft for the Airforce. Would that compromise their non-violence stance?
Thanks in advance

There is a company about 30 miles from here that acquired a contract to build helicopters for the military. A Mennonite brother was working for this company. After they started on this project, he quit for the reasons cited.

So, to answer your question, many would say 'yes'.

WayneinMaine · Apr 23, 2012

L.J. said:
How do the Anabaptist church feel about someone who works for a company that builds things as ships for the Navy, or Aircraft for the Airforce. Would that compromise their non-violence stance?
Thanks in advance

Many would think that is compromising Jesus's teachings. I personally have made sacrifices in that area.

hytdhtd · Apr 25, 2012

hello and welcome

hytdhtd · Apr 25, 2012

hello and welcome

Basil the Great · May 3, 2012

Welcome to you as well, hytdhtd, and God bless you!

Michael Snow · Jun 1, 2012

The faculty blog for Eternity Bible College just had an eight part series on Christians and Violence. It was very good to see other evangelical Christians discussing this topic.

Christians & Violence, Part 1

WWJD552 · Jun 2, 2012

This is a good question. I lost two friends in the last 3 years fighting overseas. The Amish seemed to laugh and call the military the devil of america. And the Amish and anabaptists are so perfect ? This blows my mind sometimes.

WayneinMaine · Jun 3, 2012

WWJD552 said:
This is a good question. I lost two friends in the last 3 years fighting overseas. The Amish seemed to laugh and call the military the devil of america. And the Amish and anabaptists are so perfect ? This blows my mind sometimes.

Who are these Amish that laughed? I don't know any Amish or Mennonites of Hutterites who would take something like that so lightly. I think you are making this up.

WWJD552 · Jun 6, 2012

You are saying I am a liar ? Really ? Come on over here to Pennsylvania and I will take you too them ! They are my landlords so I should know !

WWJD552 · Jun 6, 2012

If you really want to argue would u like my phone number or maybe a meet in person ? No calls me a liar .

Michael Snow · Jun 10, 2012

Michael Snow said:
The faculty blog for Eternity Bible College just had an eight part series on Christians and Violence. It was very good to see other evangelical Christians discussing this topic.

Christians & Violence, Part 1

This blog and the comments also sets a very good example of how Christians ought to engage in such controversial discussions. Something we all could learn from.

Link of last post:
http://facultyblog.eternitybiblecollege.com/2012/05/25/the-end-of-christians-and-violence/

WWJD552 · Jun 11, 2012

I could not agree more .

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