Non Veg

[fiasps]

Jews dont eat pork because of the following verse:

"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8

Jesus said:
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them Matthew 5:17

From Matthew 5:17 it is clear that swine is not permissible for christians.

There is not even one clear, unambiguous, unequivocal statment by Jesus that pork is permissible - so why do christians say that pork is allowed?

I have had a few christian brothers quote me verses - but they are out of context and even for the sake of the discussion I agree with them then that implies that there is a contradiction and that Jesus lied...? please clarify?

The point I am trying to make - Eating pork is not justified in either the Red Letter Bible or the remainder of the bible.

If you read the following verses of matthew 5:17 I quoted above it reads:

5:17 - "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them,
5:18 - because I tell you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished.
5:19 - So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven
5:20 - because I tell you, unless your righteousness greatly exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven!"

So Jesus (pbuh) came to reinforce verses like Deuteronomy 14:8 quoted above. So if anyone breaks for example this law and eats pork then he will be called least in the kingdom of heaven and in no way can his righteousness exceed that of the scribes and pharisees and will not be of the people of heaven.

 

[RedTulipMom]

We are not under the OT law. Jesus has come, Jesus is our Sabbath. In the NT Peter was given a vision that showed all meats to be clean, i am sure you have read these scriptures before.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

There is not even one clear, unambiguous, unequivocal statment by Jesus that pork is permissible - so why do christians say that pork is allowed?

Not all Christians do.

 

[fiasps]

We are not under the OT law. Jesus has come, Jesus is our Sabbath. In the NT Peter was given a vision that showed all meats to be clean, i am sure you have read these scriptures before.

How are you not under the OT law? doesnt that contradict verses of the NT like Matthew 5:17?

I may have missed the verses regarding all meats to be clean - please can you quote the verses so that I can check?

 

[fiasps]

Not all Christians do.

Are you a christian who does not eat pork? May I ask - do you not eat pork for a religious reason? if so whats the reason? Or do you not eat pork for other reasons?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I do not eat pork because God revealed to us in the Bible that He did not create pigs to be food for human beings.

 

[Lukaris]

Surely that is permissable by God to do so but actually not required: read Acts 10:10-15 (NKJV) http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2010:10-15;&version=50; Someone said this does not refer to food? Let's see: "...Rise , Peter;kill, and eat." (Acts 10:13). Really?

 

[WarEagle]

How are you not under the OT law? doesnt that contradict verses of the NT like Matthew 5:17?

Take a look at Hebrews 8. It explains the purpose of the Old and New Covenants, how and why Jesus fulfiled the Old Covenant, and what that means to us.

If you feel that it's wrong to eat pork then, by all means, don't eat pork.

However, Christians are not under the Old Covenant and, thus, are allowed to eat pork and shellfish.

June 14, we'll be tailgating at the Jimmy Buffett concert and you can bet there will be a pig roasted over a nice pit there.

I may have missed the verses regarding all meats to be clean - please can you quote the verses so that I can check?

First, Jesus declares all foods clean in Mark 7:19.

Furthermore, please see Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:15, which explain how Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant and put an end to our obligation to follow the Old Testament laws.

 

[Zunalter]

Here are a couple of Bible verses for you to consider:

(Matthew 15:10 -11) Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

(Mark 7:14-23) Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' " After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")
He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' " Parenthetical remark actually part of the text.


There is that verse in Acts 10 about Peter on the rooftop, but that context is talking about Gentile believers being true and full believers, not specifically foods that one was allowed to eat.

 

[fiasps]

Take a look at Hebrews 8. It explains the purpose of the Old and New Covenants, how and why Jesus fulfiled the Old Covenant, and what that means to us.

If you feel that it's wrong to eat pork then, by all means, don't eat pork.

However, Christians are not under the Old Covenant and, thus, are allowed to eat pork and shellfish.

June 14, we'll be tailgating at the Jimmy Buffett concert and you can bet there will be a pig roasted over a nice pit there.



First, Jesus declares all foods clean in Mark 7:19.

Furthermore, please see Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:15, which explain how Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant and put an end to our obligation to follow the Old Testament laws.

Thank you for the information, ill look into the end of OT obligation. But in th first instance I think if that is the case it contradicts verses like Matthew 5:17-20 - they both cant be correct.

I didnt know that Mark 7: 1-23 is preety much the same as Mathew 15: 1- 20! I understand the context of both of these differently to you:

It is no justification for eating pork and mentions nothing about pork and if it is used for justifying this point then it is used out of context.

The jews used to come repeatedly to Jesus (pbuh) with mokery on thier lips and mischief in thier hearts saying for example "Master, we caught a woman in the act of adultery, what must we do with her?" or "MAster, must we pay taxes to Cesar or not?"

And it is this mischief of the heart that Matthew 15:11 addresses - the Jew came to Jesus (pbuh) saying that the decisples transgressed the traditions by not washing thier hands before eating. All Jesus did was make the distinction between a disiesed and sinfull heart and a clean heart! the unclean is not dirt but sins. Just because they did not wash their hands before eating did not make them sinfull (unclean) what would make them sinfull (unclean) is the mishief they cause which comes from thier hearts.....reading the verses before and after 15:11 and you see this for yourself.....

Matthew 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Matthew 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

you see - 15:11 refers to filth from unwashed hands compared to filth coming out of ones mouth through thier disesed heart - it has nothing to do with pork or any other food.

 

[RedTulipMom]

We as Christians are under the New Covenant. We are saved by GRACE and not by the LAW. There are two different Covenants. If you are Jewish then YES you are required to follow the dietary laws, but Christians are NOT required to under the New Covenant. I think alot of people don't understand that. Messianic Jews are always trying to bring CHristians back under the law not realizing that we aren't under the same Covenant. Study up on this.

 

[WarEagle]

Thank you for the information, ill look into the end of OT obligation. But in th first instance I think if that is the case it contradicts verses like Matthew 5:17-20 - they both cant be correct.

I didnt know that Mark 7: 1-23 is preety much the same as Mathew 15: 1- 20! I understand the context of both of these differently to you:

It is no justification for eating pork and mentions nothing about pork and if it is used for justifying this point then it is used out of context.

The jews used to come repeatedly to Jesus (pbuh) with mokery on thier lips and mischief in thier hearts saying for example "Master, we caught a woman in the act of adultery, what must we do with her?" or "MAster, must we pay taxes to Cesar or not?"

And it is this mischief of the heart that Matthew 15:11 addresses - the Jew came to Jesus (pbuh) saying that the decisples transgressed the traditions by not washing thier hands before eating. All Jesus did was make the distinction between a disiesed and sinfull heart and a clean heart! the unclean is not dirt but sins. Just because they did not wash their hands before eating did not make them sinfull (unclean) what would make them sinfull (unclean) is the mishief they cause which comes from thier hearts.....reading the verses before and after 15:11 and you see this for yourself.....

Matthew 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Matthew 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

you see - 15:11 refers to filth from unwashed hands compared to filth coming out of ones mouth through thier disesed heart - it has nothing to do with pork or any other food.

If you don't want to eat pork then, by all means, don't eat pork. But a couple of others and I have told you why the OC has been fulfiled and we're now under the NC.

 

[Merlin]

Contextually,
Jesus' message was to the Jew, not the gentiles.
To understand, you must read further... into the book of Acts.


Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.
8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
11 No!
We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

The consensus was:

Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
Acts 15:29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

 

[unkern]

The reason why they were not to eat unclean animals is for the purpose that they were just that unclean. These animals are natures garbage disposals, they were not created to digest food like us. Shell fish are bottom feeders they literally absorb toxins in water they also eat fish poop and all other junk. Pigs eat anything even themselves and their own waste. There is a bug inside of pigs that cant even be killed off at 400 degrees. Did you know that if you push on a pigs foot green puss comes out. Also if you've ever heard of the trickle down theory: A farmer place several pigs in cages one on top of the other and only fed the top one, all of them survived. This law was put in place to protect them.

Moral of the story dont eat anything Jesus cast demons into.

 

[fiasps]

How can Peter (or anybody else) abrogate Jesus?
God can abrogate Jesus, Jesus can abrogate Peter but i cant work the other way around.?

 

[Minty]

Thank you RTM and WarEagle for explaining this

 

[WarEagle]

Thank you RTM and WarEagle for explaining this

Happy to help. For the record, this weekend, being 4th of July and all, we barbqued a whole pig and had several bushels of our famous Maryland blue crabs.

Then, Sunday, we had catfish with collard greens, hush puppies, and L.A. caviar.

 

[indagroove]

Happy to help. For the record, this weekend, being 4th of July and all, we barbqued a whole pig and had several bushels of our famous Maryland blue crabs.

Then, Sunday, we had catfish with collard greens, hush puppies, and L.A. caviar.

You just made my mouth water !! I lived in Maryland for 17years. Sure do miss the blue crab.

I might be moving back. My old employer from 10years ago is begging me to return.

 

[Sketcher]

Here are a couple of Bible verses for you to consider:

(Matthew 15:10 -11) Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

(Mark 7:14-23) Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' " After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")
He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' " Parenthetical remark actually part of the text.


There is that verse in Acts 10 about Peter on the rooftop, but that context is talking about Gentile believers being true and full believers, not specifically foods that one was allowed to eat.

This man has it right. Though I will contest the last sentence. It is clear throughout the New Testament that Gentile Christians are equal to Jewish Christians, yet Gentile Christians are allowed to eat pork according to Acts 15:28-29.

"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."

How can Peter (or anybody else) abrogate Jesus?
God can abrogate Jesus, Jesus can abrogate Peter but i cant work the other way around.?

He didn't. Peter's vision was in agreement with Jesus in Mark's record (and it should be noted that Mark was a disciple of Peter).

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Have to clarify a point of fact here. The parenthetical remark is NOT in the original Greek.