NON CHRISTIANS

Proud Hindu said:

That's really cool

That's exactly what we Hindus believe.

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And the similarities in the original traditions
and spirituality of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)
are stunning.

Seems the basic creeds/morality/codes of all faiths
discussed so far are so similar, it would
appear to be more than just conincidence..

Just an observation, and a hint of some deeper
truth to religion, our individual beliefs, and how
we are connected in many ways.

The question I pose: How?

Smilin said:

And the similarities in the original traditions
and spirituality of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)
are stunning.

Seems the basic creeds/morality/codes of all faiths
discussed so far are so similar, it would
appear to be more than just conincidence..

Just an observation, and a hint of some deeper
truth to religion, our individual beliefs, and how
we are connected in many ways.

The question I pose: How?

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Isn't it amazing? It is wonderful that people are starting to recognize the similarities. The Baha'i Writings explain this phenomena in great detail. It is really quite simple.

Baha'i's believe there is really only one religion, the religion of God. All of the prophets were messengers sent by the one God to renew His covenant with mankind and educate humanity. I like to use the analogy of a school...i.e. Abraham taught kindergarten, Moses taught grade school, Jesus taught Jr. High, Mohammed taught High School and now we are approaching the age of maturity, (i.e. graduation into a new cycle, the prophetic cycle has ended, the cycle of fulfillment is upon us). Each teacher reviewed the teachings brought previously and added lessons appropriate for our progress through higher grade levels. (Baha'i's also acknowledge Native traditions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, etc. as true for the age they appeared.) They appear to differ in that the social teachings change according to what is needed for the age in which they appear, and the spiritual capacity of the followers at the time. The underlying spiritual principals remain the same, i.e. the Golden Rule, etc.

Their teachings have progressed through the ages to teach the principal of unity, first unity of the family was stressed, then city/state/tribe, then nation, and now world unity is the focus. Each would be impossible without the previous instruction as a stepping stone to the next stage.

Every religion has some prophecy pointing to the day when God's kingdom will be established on earth. A Golden Age. Baha'i's believe this age has begun with the coming of Baha'u'llah, he brought us the teachings necessary to build His kingdom (We have over 100 volumes of His Writings). It has begun and even though the world seems to be in chaos, this process will continue until God's plan is fulfilled in every detail.

There are two processes going on in the world, the crumbling of the Old World Order, and the Building of the New Divine World Order. Both processes are leading us in the same direction, both are helping to establish the ultimate outcome. Everything we do is helping to either tear down the old or build the new. God's Will cannot be thwarted. His kingdom will be established in the fullness of time.

As Baha'is we see beyond the chaos to a glorious future. We realize things will get much worse before they get better, but we have the promise that God's Will be done, His kingdom will be established and we choose to help build it by building bridges of communication, helping people to see the similarities, the underlying truths in all religions. They are all a part of one plan, God's plan. God does work in mysterious ways. Who are we to judge His methods, he gave us free will to decide what part we each want to play in His Grand Design.

There was a Statement Addressed to the World's Religious Leaders of the World in 2002 by the Universal House of Justice the Supreme governing body of the Baha'i Faith which was distributed to all major religious leaders in communities all over the earth. and reads in part:

"Tragically, organized religion, whose very reason for being entails service to the cause of brotherhood and peace, behaves all too frequently as one of the most formidable obstacles in the path; to cite a particular painful fact, it has long lent its credibility to fanaticism...

If religious leadership is to rise to the challenge that this latter perception represents, such response must begin by acknowledging that religion and science are the two indispensable knowledge systems through which the potentialities of consciousness develop. ....

With every day that passes, danger grows that the rising fires of religious prejudice will ignite a worldwide conflagration the consequences of which are unthinkable. Such a danger civil government, unaided, cannot overcome. Nor should we delude ourselves that appeals for mutual tolerance can alone hope to extinguish animosities that claim to possess Divine sanction. The crisis calls on religious leadership for a break with the past as decisive as those that opened the way for society to address equally corrosive prejudices of race, gender and nation. Whatever justification exists for exercising influence in matters of conscience lies in serving the well-being of humankind. At this greatest turning point in the history of civilization, the demands of such service could not be more clear. "The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable", Bahá'u'lláh urges, "unless and until its unity is firmly established."

I haven't posted enough to be able to posts links yet, if you would like to view the entire document email me and I can send you the link.

You may also be interested in downloading a free program containing over 1000 books from 10 of the worlds religions. If you do a search for 'bahai ocean' you should be able to find the link, if not let me know I can send that to you as well. Here is a description.
"Ocean is a free collection of the World's Religious literature managed by a unique book-centered research engine. It contains over 1000 books of 10 world religions in English as well as collections in six other languages (French, Spanish, German, Russian, Dutch, and Portuguese). If you have a slow internet connection don't despair. We will happily mail you a CD at cost anywhere on the planet! Our purpose in giving away Ocean is to promote amity among religions through greater understanding. It is our belief that the actual teachings of the various religions are not so different as some people would have us believe. True, religions have been used by power-hungry leaders as a tool to divide people. But eventually people will get tired of formulaes of hate and begin to ask "what do the scriptures really say?"
What they will find is shocking: the core message of all the world's religious writings are the same: ethical integrity, honesty, sincerity, compassion, tolerance and non-violence. No kidding! It's hard to accept this in a world filled with "religious" bigotry and hatred -- but just look for yourself! Enjoy Ocean, share it freely. If you appreciate our project, help out by spreading the word. If you have a web-page, feel free to add the Ocean button which will direct people straight to this page. "

I hope I haven't overstepped the bounds of this forum. That is not my intention. I just wanted to answer the question Smilin posed.

Have a glorious day!

Loving Greetings, Harmony

Namaste, Smilin

I really like the Native American beliefs. Even when I was just six years old, I was fascinated by their religion and traditions. Like the whole thing of fasting, praying for a vision, and Hanbleciya, crying for a vision.

I also find it amazing that they had so much faith in God, that they could do stuff like this:

There was a very brave Shyela with us, and I heard someone say: "He is going!" I looked, and it was this Shyela. He had on a spotted war bonnet and a spotted robe made of some animal's skin and this was fastened with a spotted belt. He was going up the hill alone and we all followed part way. There were soldiers along the ridge up there and they were on foot holding their horses. The Shyela rode right close to them in a circle several times and all the soldiers shot at him. Then he rode back to where we had stopped at the head of the gulch. He was saying: "Ah, ah!" Someone said: "Shyela friend, what is the matter?" He began undoing his spotted belt, and when he shook it, bullets dropped out. He was very sacred and the soldiers could not hurt him. He was a fine looking man.

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And this incident I just find amazing:

On the way up to the summit, Black Elk remarked to his son, Ben: "Something should happen to-day. If I have any power left, the thunder beings of the west should hear me when I send a voice, and there should be at least a little thunder and a little rain.

" What happened is, of course, related to Wasichu readers as being merely a more or less striking coincidence. It was a bright and cloudless day, and after we had reached the summit the sky was perfectly clear. It was a season of drouth, one of the worst in the memory of the old men. The sky remained clear until about the conclusion of the ceremony.

"Right over there, " said Black Elk, indicating a point of rock, "is where I stood in my vision, but the hoop of the world about me was different, for what I saw was in the spirit."

Having dressed and painted himself as he was in his great vision, he faced the west, holding the sacred pipe before him in his right hand. Then he sent forth a voice; and a thin, pathetic voice it seemed in that vast space around us:

"Hey-a-a-hey! Hey-a-a-hey! Hey-a-a-hey! Hey-a-a-hey! Grandfather, Great Spirit, once more behold me on earth and lean to hear my feeble voice. You lived first, and you are older than all need, older than all prayer. All things belong to you--the two-leggeds, the four-leggeds, the wings of the air and all green things that live. You have set the powers of the four quarters to cross each other. The good road and the road of difficulties you have made to cross; and where they cross, the place is holy. Day in and day out, forever, you are the life of things.
"Therefore I am sending a voice, Great Spirit, my Grandfather, forgetting nothing you have made, the stars of the universe and the grasses of the earth.
"You have said to me, when I was still young and could hope, that in difficulty I should send a voice four times, once for each quarter of the earth, and you would hear me.
"To-day I send a voice for a people in despair.
"You have given me a sacred pipe, and through this I should make my offering. You see it now.
"From the west, you have given me the cup of living water and the sacred bow, the power to make live and to destroy. You have given me a sacred wind and the herb from where the white giant lives-- the cleansing power and the healing. The daybreak star and the pipe, you have given from the east; and from the south, the nation's sacred hoop and the tree that was to bloom. To the center of the world you have taken me and showed the goodness and the beauty and the strangeness of the greening earth, the only mother--and there the spirit shapes of things, as they should be, you have shown to me and I have seen. At the center of this sacred hoop you have said that I should make the tree to bloom.
"With tears running, O Great Spirit, Great Spirit, my Grandfather--with running tears I must say now that the tree has never bloomed. A pitiful old man, you see me here, and I have fallen away and have done nothing. Here at the center of the world, where you took me when I was young and taught me; here, old, I stand, and the tree is withered, Grandfather, my Grandfather!
"Again, and maybe the last time on this earth, I recall the great vision you sent me. It may be that some little root of the sacred tree still lives. Nourish it then, that it may leaf and bloom and fill with singing birds. Hear me, not for myself, but for my people; I am old. Hear me that they may once more go back into the sacred hoop and find the good red road, the shielding tree!"

We who listened now noted that thin clouds had gathered about us. A scant chill rain began to fall and there was low, muttering thunder without lightning.

With tears running down his cheeks, the old man raised his voice to a thin high wail, and chanted: "In sorrow I am sending a feeble voice, O Six Powers of the World. Hear me in my sorrow, for I may never call again. O make my people live!"

For some minutes the old man stood silent, with face uplifted, weeping in the drizzling rain.
In a little while the sky was clear again.

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Namaste Proud Hindu;

You've read Black Elk as well?
I am honored. My Father is a full-blood,
yet our cultural traditions were banned
in his household. My Grandfather was
a traditionalist, yet he passed over when
I was at a very young age. My journey
began with him, and then with my Uncle.

It wasn't until two years ago, I took up
my journey again. It was then I began
to discover the traditions and legends
that explained many unknown things
occurring in my life.

We are all one within the Creation....

Hi again, I was hoping someone could help me with this. I've been doing some dream work, and I incubated a dream asking to meet my spirit guide, but I got a mixed message. I was in a field of trees, maples and oaks. I was hoping to see one animal but I saw two. One was wolf and the other was an eagle. They were engaged in a battle, biting and clawing at each other. I have been trying to bring the dream back, but i've havent been able to. Any insights into this?

midnight star i love your avatar, i am always looking for moon goddess pics such as that

midnight star said:

Hi again, I was hoping someone could help me with this. I've been doing some dream work, and I incubated a dream asking to meet my spirit guide, but I got a mixed message. I was in a field of trees, maples and oaks. I was hoping to see one animal but I saw two. One was wolf and the other was an eagle. They were engaged in a battle, biting and clawing at each other. I have been trying to bring the dream back, but i've havent been able to. Any insights into this?

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I notice you are wiccan. However, would you like
a Native American perspective on this?

I would love a native american perspective. Anything which can offer insight is appreciated.

And thank you squeeze. My girlfriend has a poster of my avatar in her bedroom and i just love it. She's not Wiccan, (i guess she's secular humanist/agnostic, something like that) but the picture is wonderful. Thank you again, i'll pass on the compliment to her.

Blessed Be!

midnight star said:

I would love a native american perspective. Anything which can offer insight is appreciated.

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I have a general idea. I've requested some further info from
those more familiar in traditional beliefs than myself.
When I piece it all together, we'll discuss.

I predict you are going to enjoy this one.

thanks, i look forward to your insight

9Harmony said:

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Smilin said: "okay,
so explain more on the baha'i faith?"

So, where to begin?

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Harmony,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't baha'i originate
out of Judaism?

midnight star said:

Hi again, I was hoping someone could help me with this. I've been doing some dream work, and I incubated a dream asking to meet my spirit guide, but I got a mixed message. I was in a field of trees, maples and oaks. I was hoping to see one animal but I saw two. One was wolf and the other was an eagle. They were engaged in a battle, biting and clawing at each other. I have been trying to bring the dream back, but i've havent been able to. Any insights into this?

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Hello Midnight Star:

This is what I've gathered so far. First, two types of trees, two types
of animals.

By tradition, the wolf is the strongest of all spiritual animals. It is highly
revered for it's loyalty and devotion to the pack, and to it's mate. The
wolf is a formidable hunter, killing only out of a need to survive. Thus
nearly all North American tribes adapted the wolf into their culture. Every
society had its own wolf clan, the clan where leaders were forged and
chosen.

The Eagle symbolized war to the Native Americans. Only great warriors or medicine men could wear the feathers of eagles. Eagles could only
be killed by those chosen and trained for the task.

A war is being waged within you, as you are being torn by two
completely different sides. You are at war with your loyalties.

Smilin said:

Harmony,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't baha'i originate
out of Judaism?

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Hi Smilin,

The Baha'i Faith has it's origins in Islam, much the same as Christianity has it's origins in Judaism. Baha'u'llah was raised in a Muslim country, and He inaugurated an independent religion. The muslim clerics of His time who felt threatened by His teachings imprisoned and exiled Him for 40 years. Several attempts were made on His life, but none succeeded.

The Bab proclaimed in 1844 that He had come to foretell the coming of "The One Whom God will make Manifest". His mission was similar to that of John the Baptist, but His life closely resembled that of Christ.

I hope that helps clarify things a little. Let me know if you have other questions.

Loving Greetings, Harmony

I will need to meditate on this, thank you Smilin.

9Harmony said:

Hi Smilin,

The Baha'i Faith has it's origins in Islam, much the same as Christianity has it's origins in Judaism. Baha'u'llah was raised in a Muslim country, and He inaugurated an independent religion. The muslim clerics of His time who felt threatened by His teachings imprisoned and exiled Him for 40 years. Several attempts were made on His life, but none succeeded.

The Bab proclaimed in 1844 that He had come to foretell the coming of "The One Whom God will make Manifest". His mission was similar to that of John the Baptist, but His life closely resembled that of Christ.

I hope that helps clarify things a little. Let me know if you have other questions.

Loving Greetings, Harmony

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Thank you Harmony...
The reason I asked, this question came up on Millionaire the other
night...
By your statements, their answer was wrong.

Smilin said:

Thank you Harmony...
The reason I asked, this question came up on Millionaire the other
night...
By your statements, their answer was wrong.

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That's a shame, I hope someone didn't answer correctly and lose.

I thought that maybe you asked since the Baha'i World Center is in Israel.

Loving Greetings, Harmony

heres an intersesting question. As non-Christians, what lessons to you think Christianity can teach us? I am firm believe that all religions have at least one positive thing to teach us.

By the same token, what do you think Christians can learn from your particular faith?

One may be of any race or of almost any religion and walk the Red Road. The Road is a path, away. It's full meaning is the way one acts, the methods one uses, and what directs one's doing. There is more to the Red Road then spoken word or written words on paper. It is behavior, attitude, away of living, a way of "doing" with reverence - of walking strong yet softly, so as not to harm or disturb other life."