Non-Catholic's view of RC Catechism

sunlover1 · Sep 25, 2010

JacktheCatholic said:
None of us drank beer. When we met it was to gather in honor of Jesus and worship by prayer and study and reading of scripture and learning. Our teacher was Jesus and we all believed the Holy Spirit guided the meeting. It was considered a 'church' because there was 2 or more gathered in His name.

Yeah but this isn't like that at all.
We don't "gather in honor of Jesus, or worship or pray and learn.
Heck. I have tons of good stuff that my pastor taught me and love
to share it but for the MOST part... folks arent here for learnin.
Where two or more gather IN HIS NAME, He is there.

Completely SS.

Quit teasing!

There was nothing about women keeping silent in our little group of believers.

Women do not keep silent in my church either

However, I assure you that at my buddies Pentecostal Church they do not allow women to lead or usurp a man and his authority and no woman holds authority. Some go by that scriptural passage very closely and use Sola Scriptura and can back everything they teach with the scriptures. Women must remain silent.

I am trying to understand here.

You need a revelation here.
Don't feel too bad. There are probably tons of things you don't understand.
(Wind died down a bit here )

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

sunlover1 said:
Yeah but this isn't like that at all.
We don't "gather in honor of Jesus, or worship or pray and learn.
Heck. I have tons of good stuff that my pastor taught me and love
to share it but for the MOST part... folks arent here for learnin.
Where two or more gather IN HIS NAME, He is there.

Why can't this be a church and worship?

All the ingredients are here. No kidding.

I told you all how I used to go to a evangelical prayer meeting every week. We met at someone's house (or anywhere) and so long as there were 2 or more of us. We did everything your church probably does. We prayed. We read scripture. We discussed scripture. We met to honor Jesus and do His will. That was our church.

So, no kidding, what is wrong with that?

If nothing, then why can't CF be church?

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

sunlover1 said:
You need a revelation here.
Don't feel too bad. There are probably tons of things you don't understand.
(Wind died down a bit here )

If I (we) need revelation then maybe you can help? maybe the wind blows through you and then us? Maybe you are our preacher in this?

I am only repeating what I know from my buddy regarding women and their role. He may need the wind too.

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

sunlover1 said:
Quit teasing!

Women do not keep silent in my church either

Let me show you...

1 Timothy 2:11-15
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

How could a woman be an effective preacher and remain silent??? How could she Pastor men without having authority over men? How could she teach men when she is specifically forbidden to do so in this passage? Here is another passage about silence to consider:

1 Corinthians 14:34
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

The Bible teaches that women are not designed to be Pastors over men. They are designed to teach other women and children, but not men. I am sure that you could look out and find a woman who is a skillful preacher, but that does not change God's perfect Word. We are always better off functioning as God designed us to function. I hope that this is a help to you.

In Christ
Pastor Don

Pentecostals: women pastors, women pastors, 1 corinthians 14

sunlover1 · Sep 25, 2010

JacktheCatholic said:
Why can't this be a church and worship?

All the ingredients are here. No kidding.

I told you all how I used to go to a evangelical prayer meeting every week. We met at someone's house (or anywhere) and so long as there were 2 or more of us. We did everything your church probably does. We prayed. We read scripture. We discussed scripture. We met to honor Jesus and do His will. That was our church.

So, no kidding, what is wrong with that?

If nothing, then why can't CF be church?

Well I don't come here to pray or worship but the only real model of what it
is to "have church" is in the NT and we only then have snippets.
I think this would make a great thread though Jack.

JacktheCatholic said:
If I (we) need revelation then maybe you can help? maybe the wind blows through you and then us? Maybe you are our preacher in this?

I am only repeating what I know from my buddy regarding women and their role. He may need the wind too.

First of all, I too am in need of revelation.
Sometimes I get those lightbulb moments and other times it's poof! gone!
(My kids love this about me. they know i may or may not remember that
they're grounded from the phone
But aside from that. I can't give you revelation unless that anointing is there
IMO. God is the only one who can 'reveal' a thing.
That "thing" is right in front of both of our faces, but we need God to lift
the veil so to speak.

JacktheCatholic said:
Let me show you...

Pentecostals: women pastors, women pastors, 1 corinthians 14

Certainly says what it says Jack.

MamaZ · Sep 25, 2010

JacktheCatholic said:
If I (we) need revelation then maybe you can help? maybe the wind blows through you and then us? Maybe you are our preacher in this?

I am only repeating what I know from my buddy regarding women and their role. He may need the wind too.

Which woman here is trying to stand in and be a Pastor?

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

sunlover1 said:
Certainly says what it says Jack.

I hope you are not insulted that I am using a Protestant SS argument instead of a Catholic one.

I just know that my buddy thinks women should be home raisong children and keeping the house and men should be hunters and be the leaders and the only voice of the church for man is the head of the church. Also, that women should be quiet.

Since he views forums of this nature to be corrupt and exposing oneself to evil, I doubt we will ever have him here to say as much. But I was able to provide something similiar from a church much like his.

MamaZ · Sep 25, 2010

JacktheCatholic said:
If you just gave me a recipe for an assembly then it still appears that this forum can be the same as an assembly.

Physically we are all at our PC.
We come here to learn God's word.
We have preachers, elders, deacons and priests.
I can be very silent while at the site with only my keyboard making noise as I type.
Jesus is our teacher and we are all under Him at CF.

I still do not see how this is any different than the times we gathered with our evangelical fundalmentist group for prayer and study and worship???

LOL.. This is a debate forum on GT..

MamaZ · Sep 25, 2010

JacktheCatholic said:
I hope you are not insulted that I am using a Protestant SS argument instead of a Catholic one.

I just know that my buddy thinks women should be home raisong children and keeping the house and men should be hunters and be the leaders and the only voice of the church for man is the head of the church. Also, that women should be quiet.

Since he views forums of this nature to be corrupt and exposing oneself to evil, I doubt we will ever have him here to say as much. But I was able to provide something similiar from a church much like his.

Sounds like the way that the women were treated in the OT to me. Jesus came and showed compassion and relationship with women.

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

MamaZ said:
Which woman here is trying to stand in and be a Pastor?

I give. Who?

MamaZ · Sep 25, 2010

JacktheCatholic said:
I give. Who?

I haven't seen any.. So you can still your doubts.

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

MamaZ said:
Sounds like the way that the women were treated in the OT to me. Jesus came and showed compassion and relationship with women.

And NT scripture says that women should be quiet.

Scripture says what it says whether one likes it or not.

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

MamaZ said:
I haven't seen any.. So you can still your doubts.

What makes you think I have doubts?

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

MamaZ said:
LOL.. This is a debate forum on GT..

Only when one participates in the debate.

Care to give this a shot:

If you just gave me a recipe for an assembly then it still appears that this forum can be the same as an assembly.

Physically we are all at our PC.
We come here to learn God's word.
We have preachers, elders, deacons and priests.
I can be very silent while at the site with only my keyboard making noise as I type.
Jesus is our teacher and we are all under Him at CF.

I still do not see how this is any different than the times we gathered with our evangelical fundalmentist group for prayer and study and worship???

ivebeenshown · Sep 25, 2010

JacktheCatholic said:
And NT scripture says that women should be quiet.

Scripture says what it says whether one likes it or not.

1Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Indeed...

MamaZ · Sep 25, 2010

JacktheCatholic said:
And NT scripture says that women should be quiet.

Scripture says what it says whether one likes it or not.

Scripture says that women are not to upsurp authority and to learn in silence. So whos authority are we trying to upsurp here? Yours? Are you the leader of this forum or the Pastor? The one who has started this forum has invited us to join and talk..

MamaZ · Sep 25, 2010

We are not gathered together to pray and worship under the leadership of a Pastor here. Just as if I meet a brother on the street.

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

MamaZ said:
Scripture says that women are not to upsurp authority and to learn in silence. So whos authority are we trying to upsurp here? Yours? Are you the leader of this forum or the Pastor? The one who has started this forum has invited us to join and talk..

I am only addressing the teachings of a Pentecostal church which is SS and Protestant. The Pastor stated:

They are designed to teach other women and children, but not men

This sounds like women should not be teaching men.

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

MamaZ said:
We are not gathered together to pray and worship under the leadership of a Pastor here. Just as if I meet a brother on the street.

Why is that?

It seems we have all the ingredients for worship right here and right now.

JacktheCatholic · Sep 25, 2010

Non-Catholic's view of RC Catechism

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