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Noah's ARK: Olive Branch

J

Jazer

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If Noah was a real historical person or not, people seem to miss the point of the story. If it is not a real story, then why don't people get it?

Jack Van Impe says he reads his Bible and he likes to read a lot of different news papers. Sometimes the newspaper and the Bible are saying the same thing.

I study the Bible, I study science and sometimes they say the same thing. For example, I just found a web site that talks about the history of the olive tree: "The olive was native to Asia Minor and spread from Iran, Syria and Palestine to the rest of the Mediterranean basin 6,000 years ago. It is among the oldest known cultivated trees in the world - being grown before the written language was invented."

Interesting that we read about the olive tree in Noah's story. "And the dove came in to him in the evening ; and, lo, in her mouth [was] an olive 2132 leaf 5929 pluckt off : so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth 776."

Ok, maybe this does not mean anything to anyone. But for me Adam lived 6,000 years ago in the Garden that God planted in Eden. The Olive tree was first cultivated 6,000 years ago in the area Adam was said to have lived in. This is a match for me to help confirm the story of Adam and Eve.

Oh, there is a LOT more then just the Olive tree that had it's beginning with the Adam and Eve in the Bible. This is just a small part of the story.

Children learn these storys, then we spend the rest of our lives trying to understand the meaning and the lesson in it for us. It is up to the pastor to teach us what the story really means and how it can apply to our lives.

But if you want mythology we got that also. Because Greek mythology will tell us how the Olive tree found it's way from the Garden in Eden to the rest of the world, esp Acropolis. We have Athena to thank for that who was said to be a "goddess". That would mean she was decended from Adam in some way. They named a city after her.

MYTHOLOGY
Athens is named for the Goddess Athena who brought the olive to the Greeks as a gift. Zeus had promised to give Attica to the god or goddess who made the most useful invention. Athena's gift of the olive, useful for light, heat, food, medicine and perfume was picked as a more peaceful invention than Poseidon's horse - touted as a rapid and powerful instrument of war. Athena planted the original olive tree on a rocky hill that we know today as the Acropolis. The olive tree that grows there today is said to have come from the roots of the original tree.

So do we have a connection between the DNA of the Middle East Hebrews and the Italians? Lets look and see: "The various Jewish groups were more related to each other than to non-Jews, as well. Within every Jewish group, individuals shared as much of their genome as two fourth or fifth cousins, with Italian, Syrian, Iranian, and Iraqi Jews the most inbred, in the sense that they married within the small, close-knit community. In general, the genetic similarity of any two groups was larger the closer they lived to one another, but there was an exception: Turkish and Italian Jews were most closely related genetically, but are quite separated geographically." Looks like more then just the Olive tree found it's way to Athens. It looks like some of the Jewish DNA found it's way to that city also.

Although the origin of the Jews has been traced, archeologically, to the Middle East in the second millennium B.C.E., what happened next has been more opaque. To sort it out, researchers collected DNA from Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, and Ashkenazi Jews around New York City; Turkish Sephardic Jews in Seattle; Greek Sephardic Jews in Thessaloniki and Athens; and Italian Jews in Rome as part of the Jewish HapMap Project. (All four grandparents of each participant had to have come from the same
 
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J

Jazer

Guest
And so Noah, Adam and Eve were real historical people
and the Neolithic revolution really did begin in the Middle east with the Hebrew Children.

We are still looking for evidence to show that evolutions teenage ninja mutant turtles are real.

images
 
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Hespera

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And so Noah, Adam and Eve were real historical people
and the Neolithic revolution really did begin in the Middle east with the Hebrew Children.

We are still looking for evidence to show that evolutions teenage ninja mutant turtles are real.

so you have "facts" not in evidence and a strawman. check.
 
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K

Kharak

Guest
If Noah was a real historical person or not, people seem to miss the point of the story. If it is not a real story, then why don't people get it?
Some people make it seem like the story is pointless without a literal ark. I think they are the ones who don't get it.

I study the Bible, I study science and sometimes they say the same thing. For example, I just found a web site that talks about the history of the olive tree: "The olive was native to Asia Minor and spread from Iran, Syria and Palestine to the rest of the Mediterranean basin 6,000 years ago. It is among the oldest known cultivated trees in the world - being grown before the written language was invented."
The Olive Tree has been in Greece much longer than that. There are remains in Thera that date back to a geologically recent 39,000 years ago. However, it's use in agriculture was probably a lot more recent than that.

But if you want mythology we got that also. Because Greek mythology will tell us how the Olive tree found it's way from the Garden in Eden to the rest of the world, esp Acropolis. We have Athena to thank for that who was said to be a "goddess". That would mean she was decended from Adam in some way. They named a city after her.
Does that mean we should start praying to the Greek pantheon because they'll give us stuff in return for the bad cuts of meat from choice animals and libations of wine? Though, in honesty, Athenian legend does not state that the olive tree was non-native to Greece. Rather, it was a gift to Athens itself in return for their (rather hypocritical) worship of the goddess. Though it's nothing like that wool monopoly England would later get in the Middle Ages.
 
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J

Jazer

Guest
The Olive Tree has been in Greece much longer than that. There are remains in Thera that date back to a geologically recent 39,000 years ago. However, it's use in agriculture was probably a lot more recent than that.
Your artical does not say that at all. This is what your artical says: "According to Turill (1951, 449) "The place, time and immediate ancestry of the cultivated olive are unknown. It is frequently referred to in the Old Testament and in ancient Greek literature. The legends of Greek mythology point to its origin outside Greece and its introduction as a plant already in full cultivation."
 
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K

Kharak

Guest
Your artical does not say that at all. This is what your artical says: "According to Turill (1951, 449) "The place, time and immediate ancestry of the cultivated olive are unknown. It is frequently referred to in the Old Testament and in ancient Greek literature. The legends of Greek mythology point to its origin outside Greece and its introduction as a plant already in full cultivation."
The only part you read was a quote of a quote from another, now incorrect entry?

Cough . . . Ahem.
Plant remains occur in several strata between the Middle and the Upper Pumice Series on Thera and Therasia. They are found in palaeosols which were formed during periods of long volcanic quiescence when the vegetation could become re-established in the areas which were devastated during periods of volcanic activity.

. . .

Based on radiocarbon data from charcoal of trees and shrubs, three different palaeosols of Weichselian age from Thera and Therasia were dated and named: The Fira palaeosol (ca. 37,000 yr. B.P.) . . .

Tamarix, Pistacia, the olive tree, date-palm and the dwarf-palm grew on Santorini about 37,000 years ago . . .
So there were, as I previously stated, olive trees in Greece before the Greeks themselves. Whether or not they later learned to cultivate them on their own is debatable, but they were definitely there.
 
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J

Jazer

Guest
So there were, as I previously stated, olive trees in Greece before the Greeks themselves. Whether or not they later learned to cultivate them on their own is debatable, but they were definitely there.
I am not totally against evolution. If there is a olive tree then I suppose it had to "evolve" from something. We have recorded history that gives us a window on what was going on back then. But people want to write it off as myth because they do not understand what they are reading. Nor do they know how to interpret ancient texts.

They say Athena was pretty. I rather suspect that she discovered olive oil was an ancient beauty secret and could be used in a lot of different ways for cooking and for light & heat.

800px-Athena_mosaic_Pio-Clementino.jpg
 
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K

Kharak

Guest
I am not totally against evolution. If there is a olive tree then I suppose it had to "evolve" from something. We have recorded history that gives us a window on what was going on back then. But people want to write it off as myth because they do not understand what they are reading. Nor do they know how to interpret ancient texts.
The text was not discussing evolution: It was discussing the particular climate of Greece at the time. In fact, the evidence suggested that the Olive tree as it is known now was quite identical to the fossils found in the 37,000 year period. Again, you failed to read the parts where I have mentioned that it was probably not cultivated until more recently.

They say Athena was pretty. I rather suspect that she discovered olive oil was an ancient beauty secret and could be used in a lot of different ways for cooking and for light & heat.
Athena is reliably illustrated as plain looking when compared with more feminine, traditional goddesses of beauty. She was chiefly a god of war and wisdom more than anything, and even Sparta had a shrine to her. Though the Greek gods in mythology would blind people who had the misfortune of seeing them in their true forms.
 
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J

Jazer

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it was probably not cultivated until more recently.
Actuallly, that is what we are talking about is the neolithic revolution. The beginning of farming and civilization. Science tells us that man has been around for a lot longer then 6,000 also. In the last 12,000 years man went from a food gather to a food producer.
 
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MorkandMindy

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The dove brought back an olive branch (twig?). If this was not possible earlier, and Noah did take that to mean the waters had abated, then the olive tree has another remarkable feature - the ability to survive deep underwater for 10.5 months.

Are their frequently flooded areas where this might be useful?
 
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