Noah's Ark, Anyone?

aeroz19 · Jun 15, 2004

Here is a great article on Noah's Ark throughout history. It explains about how many ancient cultures have a flood story in their religions, from many continents.

What do ya think?

THE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE FOR NOAH`S ARK

Does anyone have any news on Noah's ark? Please, post. Discuss, discuss!

worshipdancer2him · Jun 15, 2004

I heard long time ago that some people found Noak's boat! Its in some museum.I don't know where it is. Or what state its in or what.

Jorgen Child · Jun 16, 2004

worshipdancer2him said:
I heard long time ago that some people found Noak's boat! Its in some museum.I don't know where it is. Or what state its in or what.

This is incorrect. Noah's ark has never been found.

Jorgen Child · Jun 16, 2004

aeroz19 said:
Here is a great article on Noah's Ark throughout history. It explains about how many ancient cultures have a flood story in their religions, from many continents.

What do ya think?

Does anyone have any news on Noah's ark? Please, post. Discuss, discuss!

Flood Stories are almost a universal for different cultures in the world. However, this is a result of man's universal fear of the sea. The universality of Flood Stories does not provide any evidence to say that one occurred in 2200 BC, as the Biblical record claims.

The flood stories which have a direct literary connection with Genesis 6-9 (The Sumarian Flood Story, Atrahasis & Tablet XI of the Gilgamesh Epic) were written down a good 1,000 years before Genesis. And the common origin of the tradition is often dated to Sumeria, in 3000 BC.

johnd · Jun 16, 2004

Jorgen Child said:
Flood Stories are almost a universal for different cultures in the world. However, this is a result of man's universal fear of the sea. The universality of Flood Stories does not provide any evidence to say that one occurred in 2200 BC, as the Biblical record claims.

Jorgen Child said:
The flood stories which have a direct literary connection with Genesis 6-9 (The Sumarian Flood Story, Atrahasis & Tablet XI of the Gilgamesh Epic) were written down a good 1,000 years before Genesis. And the common origin of the tradition is often dated to Sumeria, in 3000 BC.

Thank you for that philosophical / non-evidential opinion.

There is far more evidence that there was a global deluge than just the fact that all ancient cultures have a global flood account (which by itself is far weightier a testimony in validating ancient texts or historical events than Jorgen appears to believe).

Secondly, the Bible does not place a specific date on creation or the deluge although theological estimations range from 4000 BC to 3000 BC respectively.

The Bible describes in Genesis 1 the creation of a vapor canopy above the earth which would explain the global temperate climate / longevity of species (also recorded in other ancient writings). The modern absence of which suggests source of the the lions share of the water described in Genesis 6-9 used to flood the earth. The rest came from subterranean vaults on which the continental plates rested securely. When these were damaged or destroyed, the super-continent Pangea broke apart while entire continents and subcontinents collided creating the global topography we are have today.

Seashells and ocean sediments are found at the top of every mountain on earth proving a global flood did occur. Also the polar icecaps drained off the lions share of the water volume needed to cover the earth. If these caps were melted today the earth would be strictly an aquatic domain.

But other than these things we have a weak argument. <tongue firmly planted in cheek>

Jorgen Child · Jun 16, 2004

johnd said:
There is far more evidence that there was a global deluge than just the fact that all ancient cultures have a global flood account

There is no evidence of a global flood.

"There is presently no convincing archaeological evidence of the biblical flood."
- J. H. Walton, "Flood", in T. Desmond Alexander & David W. Baker (Eds.) Dictionary of the Old Testament: Pentateuch (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2003), p. 324

johnd said:
Secondly, the Bible does not place a specific date on creation or the deluge although theological estimations range from 4000 BC to 3000 BC respectively.

Incorrect. The date of the Flood is easily ascertainable from the genealogies in Genesis. This is not a "theological estimation". It is from biblical scholarship. Here is a brief explanation from a quick search on the internet:

"1 Kings 6:1 states that the Exodus from Egypt occurred 480 years before the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel. Exodus 12:40 says that the children of Israel dwelt in Egypt for 430 years. At the time they entered Egypt, Jacob was 130 years old (Genesis 47:9). Isaac was 60 years old when Jacob was born (Genesis 25:26). Abram/Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was born (Genesis 21:5). Genesis 11:10-26 gives us the genealogy of Abram back to Noah's son Shem who is said to have begat Arphaxad 2 years after the Flood. The remaining ancestors of Abram and the ages when they begat their sons are all provided for us. From Shem to Abram, the total adds up to be 292 years. So, the computation of the date of the Flood would start in the fourth year of Solomon's reign (967 BCE). Add up the years in the unbroken chain of events back to Shem's begatting of Arphaxad (and adding two more to get us back to the end of the Flood) and we get 1494 years. This would compute the year of the Flood to be 2461 BCE."

johnd said:
Seashells and ocean sediments are found at the top of every mountain on earth proving a global flood did occur.

This is nonsense, believed only by the gullible.

johnd said:
Also the polar icecaps drained off the lions share of the water volume needed to cover the earth. If these caps were melted today the earth would be strictly an aquatic domain.

This too is nonsense, believed only by the gullible.

JVD · Jun 16, 2004

I am no expert on this issue at all. But I do know this. I can take you to a mountain not 30 miles from where I live and show you fossilized sea shells embedded in rock at the 5,500 foot level. Of course, that mountain could have been pushed up from an ancient sea bed...5,500 feet! So while I doubt that sea shells are on EVERY mountain top in the world; they ARE on a mountain top near my home.

In addition, geneologies are not complete, often skipping generations.

Jorgen Child · Jun 16, 2004

JVD said:
In addition, geneologies are not complete, often skipping generations.

You will find that the genealogies from Noah to Abraham are in fact complete. They cannot be read as 'skipping' any generations at all, because of the ages given at each child-birth. And, of course, from Abraham to Joseph we have stories to support the lineage. That then brings us up to the time periods of the sojourn in Egypt, and the 480 years to Solomon's Temple.

Although some other genealogies may not be complete, you are incorrect to say that this one is.

johnd · Jun 16, 2004

Jorgen Child said:
[/color]

There is no evidence of a global flood.

"There is presently no convincing archaeological evidence of the biblical flood."

- J. H. Walton, "Flood", in T. Desmond Alexander & David W. Baker (Eds.) Dictionary of the Old Testament: Pentateuch (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2003), p. 324

Now that's the drivel of the gullible.

Incorrect. The date of the Flood is easily ascertainable from the genealogies in Genesis. This is not a "theological estimation". It is from biblical scholarship. Here is a brief explanation from a quick search on the internet:

"1 Kings 6:1 states that the Exodus from Egypt occurred 480 years before the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel. Exodus 12:40 says that the children of Israel dwelt in Egypt for 430 years. At the time they entered Egypt, Jacob was 130 years old (Genesis 47:9). Isaac was 60 years old when Jacob was born (Genesis 25:26). Abram/Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was born (Genesis 21:5). Genesis 11:10-26 gives us the genealogy of Abram back to Noah's son Shem who is said to have begat Arphaxad 2 years after the Flood. The remaining ancestors of Abram and the ages when they begat their sons are all provided for us. From Shem to Abram, the total adds up to be 292 years. So, the computation of the date of the Flood would start in the fourth year of Solomon's reign (967 BCE). Add up the years in the unbroken chain of events back to Shem's begatting of Arphaxad (and adding two more to get us back to the end of the Flood) and we get 1494 years. This would compute the year of the Flood to be 2461 BCE."

The "BCE" is glaring evidence from which side of the fence this "scholarly" writing was formed.

This is nonsense, believed only by the gullible.

This too is nonsense, believed only by the gullible.

And since you are in the business of adhomenim attacks with no substantial counter evidence to offer, I will now leave you to your quest, Chicken Little.

artybloke · Jun 16, 2004

JVD said:
I am no expert on this issue at all. But I do know this. I can take you to a mountain not 30 miles from where I live and show you fossilized sea shells embedded in rock at the 5,500 foot level. Of course, that mountain could have been pushed up from an ancient sea bed...5,500 feet! So while I doubt that sea shells are on EVERY mountain top in the world; they ARE on a mountain top near my home.

Yes, it probably does, but that has a lot more to do with continental drift than anything to do with a global flood. It took a lot longer than a few thousand years for them to travel there too. I suggest that, instead of swallowing all this creationist claptrap, you actually read some real science: go to www.talkorigins.org and look up "flood geology."

Actually, all cultures don't have flood mythologies. Just ones that lived near rivers that tended to flood a lot.

jbarcher · Jun 16, 2004

*cough*

/me puts on MOD HAT

Let's not rampage about the various origin theories here. Especially not rampaging about each other and those who hold to certain views. One debates the idea, not the person. Don't like that? Don't post then, and take it somewhere where flaming is allowed.

seebs · Jun 16, 2004

Thanks, sss.

I think it's pretty easy to sort this out. Look at the fossils at the tops of mountains. Are they of modern species, or species we don't see much anymore? If the latter, why? Perhaps because the fossils up there are from when that land was down further, continental drift being what it is.

aeroz19 · Jun 16, 2004

Jorgen Child said:
Flood Stories are almost a universal for different cultures in the world. However, this is a result of man's universal fear of the sea.

Oh my gosh! That's right! He solved the mystery, everyone! Why hadn't we thought of this?! Such logic!

Jorgen Child · Jun 18, 2004

johnd said:
And since you are in the business of adhomenim attacks with no substantial counter evidence to offer, I will now leave you to your quest, Chicken Little.

You do not understand the term 'ad hominem'.

There is no evidence of a worldwide flood. I do not need to offer 'counterevidence', because you have offered no evidence in the first place.

Bushido216 · Jun 18, 2004

aeroz19 said:
Oh my gosh! That's right! He solved the mystery, everyone! Why hadn't we thought of this?! Such logic!

He's right.

What's more, none of the flood stories coincide. They're all different. Some have no one surviving, none of them have just a family of eight surviving, none of them have the survivors bringing samples of life.

If you can show me consistent flood stories from across the globe I might just believe it.

PaladinValer · Jun 18, 2004

worshipdancer2him said:
I heard long time ago that some people found Noak's boat! Its in some museum.I don't know where it is. Or what state its in or what.

That's an urban legend, unfortunately.

johnd said:
Seashells and ocean sediments are found at the top of every mountain on earth proving a global flood did occur. Also the polar icecaps drained off the lions share of the water volume needed to cover the earth. If these caps were melted today the earth would be strictly an aquatic domain.

And let me guess: they use the Himalayas and the Rocky Mountains as proof? That doesn't prove a flood at all. The Himalayas have sea fossils and the such because that land used to be underwater but was pushed out and high up as the Indian Subcontinent rammed into Asia.

As for the Rocky Mountains, most of the western US and a part of western Canada was once a inland sea. It has nothing to do with a flood.

The only evidence that could explain a flood would be a world-wide layer of sediment deposite, and none has ever been found. There are many who claim there are, but they are all frauds and very misinformed.

The "BCE" is glaring evidence from which side of the fence this "scholarly" writing was formed.

The BCE/CE system was invented by Christians who understood that, under the BC/AD system, Jesus would have been born between 2 and 6 "BC." Since it was a contradiction, they created a new dating system that historians have sinced picked up.

And this historian and Christian has no qualms of it.

Noah's Ark, Anyone?

aeroz19

Guest

Tornado Bride 2012!!

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

JVD

Guest

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

ANE Social Science Researcher

God Made Me A Skeptic

aeroz19

Guest

Member

Well-Known Member

Traditional Orthodox Anglican

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency