No Rapture Before Antichrist!!!!!

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I guess this is one of my questions is if there is a rapture at all. Rather it be before the Great Tribulation or between or the end of. In all honesty if it happens, it happens. However there are quite a few Christians who believe that all of this had already taken place at the time of 70 A.D. This is Preterist teaching. I don't believe in the Preterist teaching, however they seem to be so convinced that everything happened. And that Jesus is now ruling and reigning in our hearts in the spiritual sense. I would disagree because if Jesus was ruling and reigning than why is there more evil in the world? I don't believe that Jesus would allow this to happen while He is ruling and reigning on the earth.

Also what the Preterist people teach doesn't make sense and there is a lot of other things that are missing.

Moriah Ruth

hiscosmicgoldfish said:

Sorry to burst the bubble, but it aint gonna happen, there is no secret rapture, the pre-trib rapture doctrine is a scam.

read it and weep...

Articles

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Matthew 13:39--the disciples ask Jesus to explain the parable, He replies:

"The Harvest IS the End of the Age."

Same expression used in Matthew 28:20--sunteleia aionos.

The End of the Age BEGINS with Rapture.

Matthew 24:29,30, where is says "immediately after" is a common mistranslation found in most Bibles.

The Greek words euthos meta actually mean IMMEDIATELY WITH, or AT ONCE, or IN CLOSE PROXIMITY WITH.

euthos=immediately, at once
meta=with, adjacent, accompanying, in close proximity to

Same word, meta, is used in Matthew 1:23 to say that Immanuel means "God WITH us".

Doesn't say "God AFTER us".

What Jesus was trying to say was that the signs for the Rapture will occur immediately with the Tribulation of those days.

In other words, the Rapture is the event that kicks off the Tribulation.

Indeed, that's how the great multitude that appears out of nowhere in heaven in Revelation 7:9 "comes out of great tribulation" (Revelation 7:14).

How exactly can the Rapture come at the end of Tribulation when all I've stated previously happens under the 6th Seal, you know, BEFORE the opening of the 7th Seal?

The Anti-Christ himself doesn't even show up until after the 7th Seal opens.

God didn't number these seals and judgments for His own personal amusement.

There's a particular chronological order to the events described (with a few parenthetical chapters in-between).

Also, the Last trump and the 7th trumpet are two different trumpets.

One belongs to God and brings blessings, like the Rapture.

The other belongs to an angel and brings judgments.

Paul's referring to THE TRUMPET OF GOD (1 Thessalonians 4:16)--one single trumpet, not of a series of seven, not belonging to an angel.

Rather, God's TRUMPET.

So what does he mean by last trump?

The first time God's Trump blew was when He set apart a people for Himself at Mt. Sinai. Check out Exodus 19.

In fact, Exodus 19:6 says Israel shall "be unto me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation".

Compare this to what Peter said in 1st Peter 2:5,9 and what John said in Revelation 1:6 in REGARDS TO CHRIST'S CHURCH.

The LAST Trump of God will finally call those He already set apart (the Church) unto Himself.

In other words... Rapture.

It's Pre-Trib.

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vinsight4u said:

Rev. 7:1 begins a new sequence of events (a new vision, story).
Look closely at what happens in the first part of Rev. 7?
Are the four angels given ways to harm?
How did they get those plagues?
earth, sea, trees

The set of angels that came from the east gave them to them.
Look at what it means in Revelation when John tells us that he saw another of something.

another angel fly in the midst of heaven

another mighty angel come down from heaven

another angel ascending from the east
"till we have sealed"


Matthew 24 shows the gathering is after the great tribulation - such as was not. Rev. 7 tells us of that time, but you have to look very closely at what action is taking place there.

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Yeah, it's a new sequence of events all right... the Tribulation--judgment upon wicked mankind.

There will be 144,000 sealed Hebrew believers running around saving any last minute folks they can.

Notice how when the demon locusts are unleashed upon earth, they are not permitted to harm those sealed by God (Revelation 9:4). Everybody else is apparently fair game though.

These last minute believers will also have to contend with persecution at the hands of Anti-Christ.

And the angel who flies in the midst of heaven... that guy flies around preaching the Gospel. I assume he's not doing so for kicks, rather he's trying to save whoever the 144,000 couldn't reach due to persecution, calamity, or geography.

At some point, the 144,000 are Raptured out shortly after Anti-Christ officially comes to power (Revelation 14:1-5). They go up to Mt. Zion and lift off from there. Then they get a special song to sing that is exclusive only to them.

After that you see the angel show up and begin preaching the Gospel. Once he gets everyone he can get they, and everybody the 144,000 got who survived Anti-Christ's purge, get Raptured (Revelation 14:15; 15:1-4).

So you've actually got several Raptures occurring throughout the Tribulation... there ain't just one.

Incidentally, it's only after all these people have split that the nastiest judgments begin... the bowl judgments.

The only poor slobs going thru those are the staunch, wicked non-believing Anti-Christ followers.

They're basically screwed.

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hiscosmicgoldfish said:

i stay clear of Revelation, i'm not at all sure that it's even the word of God, if it is then (sorry God). its seems to be a good way to obfuscate things which are otherwise plain and simple.

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Revelation is plain and simple.

Taken in context, it's one of the most easily understood books of the Bible as far as I'm concerned.

People however make it complicated by taking things out of context, taking events out of order (ignoring the order of trumpets, bowls, seals, etc.), and otherwise twisting and manipulating the book to make it fit their viewpoint.

My advice: stay away from jackasses such as these--like the clowns who wrote that article you posted--and stick solely with the Word.

The Word indeed includes Revelation. It's the Revelation of Lord Jesus Christ for Pete's sake!

If you don't think the Word is infallible, that there's pieces missing or stuff that doesn't belong, then I don't know what else to tell you.

hiscosmicgoldfish said:

i dont know about that. i watched this video posted on another thread, and i think it is true.

Daniel's Timeline

it is way beyond anything i have seen before. my own thoughts on daniel is that it is a big mix of stuff, and the end chapters are all about antiochus 4th, but there is a deeper prophetic meaning, which can be sorted out, by some people who do enough study.

daniel is not a timetable itself for the last days.. the antichrist isnt going to be running around palestine pitching tents, and fighting with the egyptians.. that was about antiochus.

i will keep my thoughts on rev. to myself, in case i am wrong about it. the mark of the beast seems to be like it could be true, in the USA anyway. i cant see how over here with our House of Lords and the anglican church, that the antichrist could impose his mark of the beast here.

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Daniel's visions primarily concern the "end times". This is repeated constantly throughout these latter chapters.

While many of these prophecies had a partial fulfillment in Daniel's future (now our past), their primary application is at the time of the end.

The distant future... OUR TIME.

If if was strictly about Antiochus then his time would've been the time of the end, and we wouldn't even be here discussing this. We'd have all been out of here a long, long, loooong time ago.

Since we're still here, he's obviously referring to another ruler who will come.

Or should I say, RETURN.

Also, with the Tribulation anything is possible.

You don't seem to realize just how severe Tribulation is going to be... the House of Lords will be lucky to still be standing during this horrific period.

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vinsight4u said:

What time do you think the vision is for that happened in Daniel 10?

10:14
"Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days...the vision..."

If you head on to Daniel 11:14, you will find "thy people" "the vision" are written in that verse.
Daniel 11 is not a vision, but the time of explaining what Daniel saw in chapter 10.

Daniel 8 as to the little horn doesn't happen unless what occurs first?
All of the other transgressors have come against Jerusalem/Israel.

Daniel 8:23
"And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king...stand up."

The little horn king that will stand up comes as the last transgressor against the holy city/site/.

This is why Daniel 9:26 refers to desolations are determined.
Daniel was supposed to consider the other vision when Gabriel was telling him the 70 weeks prophecy. Gabriel revealed that within that prophecy will come a time of determined desolations ahead of the final week of the 70 weeks.

As to past days, no kings will fit for 13b and forward in Daniel 11 as to this day as making the prophecy over.
Antiochus of Epiphanes is not even in the Daniel 11 prophecy, that explains what Daniel saw during chapter 10 as to the latter days.

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Daniel 9:26 is referring to the utter destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. which came at the hands of the Roman army under the command of Titus Vespasian--the prince who will come, the son of Caesar Vespasian.

This was the result of the First Jewish Revolt in 66 A.D. and marked the second time Jerusalem and its temple were razed to the ground.

**The first came at the hands of the Babylonians in 586 B.C. The Jews returned 70 years later from exile and rebuilt in 516 B.C.

After the destruction of 70 A.D., Emperor Hadrian rebuilt it as Aelia following the Second Jewish Revolt of 135 A.D. The pagan city was completed in 140 A.D., 70 years after its destruction.

This has been fulfilled.

Another desolation came in 1948 when Jordan bombed prophetic Jerusalem (Jewish Quarter). Jews were expelled and the site remains desolate until reconstruction in 1969.

This has been fulfilled.

The Abomination of Desolation, referred to in chapter 11 of Daniel, refers to the one in our future when the Anti-Christ seizes the newly constructed temple, sits in it, and proclaims himself god. This will be the last desolation before the FINAL RESTORATION referred to in Daniel, Zechariah, Jeremiah, which will take place 70 some years after the previous desolation in '48.

This will be fulfilled upon Jesus' Second Coming.