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WoodrowX2

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Muhammad never provided any definition of fondling, perhaps because he was to busy fondling an underage Aisha.

Look, another wonderful pearl from the religion you love:

islamic necrophilia (FIS fatwa : you can rape your dead wife ) - YouTube

I am going to assume you know what a fatwa is and you are aware of the 5 levels of responsibility'

The video does not seem to qualify as a Fatwa as the Mufti did not give any Qur'anic reason for his opinion.

The Mufti expressed his opinion that for a man to have to have sex with his dead wife is Makrooh.

Meaning there is no prescribed punishment for it but it is something a person should avoid doing.
 
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smaneck

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Gee, didn't mention this article which followed:

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/04/30/211238.html

"Members of the Egyptian parliament responded to the uproar caused by Egyptian and Arab media reports about a new law that would allow a husband to have sex with his dead wife within six hours after her death and denied existence of any such draft.

“This is indecent and nonsense. The whole issue is unacceptable. It is even unacceptable to give any statement to media about this issue,” Islamist MP Mamdouh Ismail told Al Arabiya."

But who cares about the truth when you can have such wild fantasies!


 
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Crypto

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The following narration does not exist in the English translations of Sahih Muslim, but a similar (but sanitized version) appears in: Sahih Muslim 3:684


و حدثني ‏ ‏زهير بن حرب ‏ ‏وأبو غسان المسمعي ‏ ‏ح ‏ ‏و حدثناه ‏ ‏محمد بن المثنى ‏ ‏وابن بشار ‏ ‏قالوا حدثنا ‏ ‏معاذ بن هشام ‏ ‏قال حدثني ‏ ‏أبي ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏قتادة ‏ ‏ومطر ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الحسن ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي رافع ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي هريرة ‏ ‏أن نبي الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏إذا جلس بين ‏ ‏شعبها ‏ ‏الأربع ثم جهدها فقد وجب عليه الغسل ‏
‏وفي حديث ‏ ‏مطر ‏ ‏وإن لم ينزل ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏زهير ‏ ‏من بينهم بين ‏ ‏أشعبها ‏ ‏الأربع ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏محمد بن عمرو بن عباد بن جبلة ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏محمد بن أبي عدي ‏ ‏ح ‏ ‏و حدثنا ‏ ‏محمد بن المثنى ‏ ‏حدثني ‏ ‏وهب بن جرير ‏ ‏كلاهما ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏شعبة ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏قتادة ‏ ‏بهذا الإسناد ‏ ‏مثله غير أن في حديث ‏ ‏شعبة ‏ ‏ثم اجتهد ولم يقل وإن لم ينزل ‏​


Narrated by Zuhair Ibn Harb, narrated by Ghasan Al-Masma’i, narrated by Muhammad Ibn Al-Mathny, narrated by Ibn Bashar, who said that it was narrated by Muath Ibn Hisham, narrated by Abu Qatada, narrated by Mattar, narrated by Al-Hassan, narrated by Abu Rab’i, narrated by Abu Huraira who said:
"The prophet – peace be upon him – said, ‘If one sits between a woman’s four parts (shu’biha Al-arba&#8217 and then fatigues her, then it necessitates that he wash.’
In the hadith of Mattar it is added ‘even if he does not [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] (yunzil).’ Zuhair narrated among them using the phrase ‘Ashba’iha Al-arba’. It was also narrated by Muhammad Ibn Umar Ibn Ibad Ibn Jablah, narrated Muhammad Ibn Abi Uday, narrated by Muhammad Ibn Al-Mathny, narrated by Wahb Ibn Jarir who both related from Shu’bah who narrated from Qatada who gave this same chain of transmission, except that in the hadith of Shu’bah it has the phrase ‘then he labored’ but did not have the phrase ‘even if he does not [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].’
Sahih Muslim - Book of Menstruation - hadith #525



Commentary

صحيح مسلم بشرح النووي ‏ ‏قَوْله : ( أَبُو غَسَّان الْمِسْمَعِيّ ) ‏ ‏هُوَ بِفَتْحِ الْغَيْن الْمُعْجَمَة وَتَشْدِيد السِّين الْمُهْمَلَة , وَيَجُوز صَرْفه وَتَرْكُ صَرْفه . وَالْمِسْمَعِيّ بِكَسْرِ الْمِيم الْأُولَى وَفَتْح الثَّانِي , وَاسْمه مَالِك بْن عَبْد الْوَاحِد , وَقَدْ تَقَدَّمَ بَيَانه مَرَّات , لَكِنِّي أُنَبِّه عَلَيْهِ وَعَلَى مِثْله لِطُولِ الْعَهْد بِهِ , كَمَا شَرَطْتهُ فِي الْخُطْبَة . ‏
‏قَوْله : ( أَبُو رَافِع عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَة ) ‏ ‏اِسْم أَبِي رَافِع : ( نُفَيْع ) وَقَدْ تَقَدَّمَ أَيْضًا . ‏ ‏قَوْله صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : ( إِذَا قَعَدَ بَيْن شُعَبهَا الْأَرْبَع ثُمَّ جَهَدهَا ) ‏ ‏وَفِي رِوَايَة ( أَشْعُبهَا ) اِخْتَلَفَ الْعُلَمَاء فِي الْمُرَاد بِالشُّعَبِ الْأَرْبَع , فَقِيلَ : هِيَ الْيَدَانِ وَالرِّجْلَانِ , وَقِيلَ : الرِّجْلَانِ وَالْفَخِذَانِ , وَقِيلَ : الرِّجْلَانِ وَالشَّفْرَانِ , وَاخْتَارَ الْقَاضِي عِيَاض أَنَّ الْمُرَاد شُعَب الْفَرْج الْأَرْبَع , وَالشُّعَب النَّوَاحِي وَاحِدَتهَا شُعْبَة , وَأَمَّا مَنْ قَالَ : ( أَشْعُبِهَا ) , فَهُوَ جَمْع شُعَب . وَمَعْنَى ( جَهَدَهَا ) حَفَرَهَا كَذَا قَالَهُ الْخَطَّابِيُّ وَقَالَ غَيْره : بَلَغَ مَشَقَّتهَا , يُقَال : جَهِدْته وَأَجْهَدْته بَلَغْت مَشَقَّته , قَالَ الْقَاضِي عِيَاض رَحِمَهُ اللَّه تَعَالَى : الْأَوْلَى أَنْ يَكُون جَهَدَهَا بِمَعْنَى بَلَغَ جَهْده فِي الْعَمَل فِيهَا , وَالْجَهْد الطَّاقَة , وَهُوَ إِشَارَة إِلَى الْحَرَكَة وَتَمَكُّن صُورَة الْعَمَل , وَهُوَ نَحْو قَوْله مِنْ حَفَرَهَا أَيْ كَدّهَا بِحَرَكَتِهِ . وَإِلَّا فَأَيّ مَشَقَّة بَلَغَ بِهَا فِي ذَلِكَ . وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَم . وَمَعْنَى الْحَدِيث أَنَّ إِيجَاب الْغُسْل لَا يَتَوَقَّف عَلَى نُزُول الْمَنِيّ بَلْ مَتَى غَابَتْ الْحَشَفَة فِي الْفَرْج وَجَبَ الْغُسْل عَلَى الرَّجُل وَالْمَرْأَة , وَهَذَا لَا خِلَاف فِيهِ الْيَوْم , وَقَدْ كَانَ فِيهِ خِلَاف لِبَعْضِ الصَّحَابَة وَمَنْ بَعْدهمْ , ثُمَّ اِنْعَقَدَ الْإِجْمَاع عَلَى مَا ذَكَرْنَاهُ , وَقَدْ تَقَدَّمَ بَيَان هَذَا . قَالَ أَصْحَابنَا : وَلَوْ غَيَّبَ الْحَشَفَة فِي دُبُر اِمْرَأَة , أَوْ دُبُر رَجُل , أَوْ فَرْج بَهِيمَة , أَوْ دُبُرهَا , وَجَبَ الْغُسْل سَوَاء كَانَ الْمَوْلَج فِيهِ حَيًّا أَوْ مَيِّتًا , صَغِيرًا أَوْ كَبِيرًا , وَسَوَاء كَانَ ذَلِكَ عَنْ قَصْد أَمْ عَنْ نِسْيَان , وَسَوَاء كَانَ مُخْتَارًا أَوْ مُكْرَهًا , أَوْ اسْتَدْخَلَت الْمَرْأَة ذَكَرَهُ وَهُوَ نَائِم , وَسَوَاء اِنْتَشَرَ الذَّكَر أَمْ لَا , وَسَوَاء كَانَ مَخْتُونًا أَمْ أَغْلَف , فَيَجِب الْغُسْل فِي كُلّ هَذِهِ الصُّوَر عَلَى الْفَاعِل وَالْمَفْعُول بِهِ إِلَّا إِذَا كَانَ الْفَاعِل أَوْ الْمَفْعُول بِهِ صَبِيًّا أَوْ صَبِيَّة فَإِنَّهُ لَا يُقَال وَجَبَ عَلَيْهِ لِأَنَّهُ لَيْسَ مُكَلَّفًا , وَلَكِنْ يُقَال صَارَ جُنُبًا فَإِنْ كَانَ مُمَيِّزًا وَجَبَ عَلَى الْوَلِيّ أَنْ يَأْمُرهُ بِالْغُسْلِ كَمَا يَأْمُرهُ بِالْوُضُوءِ , فَإِنْ صَلَّى مِنْ غَيْر غُسْلٍ لَمْ تَصِحّ صَلَاته , وَإِنْ لَمْ يَغْتَسِل حَتَّى بَلَغَ وَجَبَ عَلَيْهِ الْغُسْل , وَإِنْ اِغْتَسَلَ فِي الصِّبَى ثُمَّ بَلَغَ لَمْ يَلْزَمهُ إِعَادَة الْغُسْل . قَالَ أَصْحَابنَا : وَالِاعْتِبَار فِي الْجِمَاع بِتَغْيِيبِ الْحَشَفَة مِنْ صَحِيح الذَّكَر بِالِاتِّفَاقِ , فَإِذَا غَيَّبَهَا بِكَمَالِهَا تَعَلَّقَتْ بِهِ جَمِيع الْأَحْكَام , وَلَا يُشْتَرَط تَغْيِيب جَمِيع الذَّكَر بِالِاتِّفَاقِ . وَلَوْ غَيَّبَ بَعْض الْحَشَفَة لَا يَتَعَلَّق بِهِ شَيْء مِنْ الْأَحْكَام بِالِاتِّفَاقِ إِلَّا وَجْهًا شَاذًّا ذَكَرَهُ بَعْض أَصْحَابنَا أَنَّ حُكْمه حُكْم جَمِيعهَا , وَهَذَا الْوَجْه غَلَط مُنْكَر مَتْرُوك , وَأَمَّا إِذَا كَانَ الذَّكَر مَقْطُوعًا فَإِنْ بَقِيَ مِنْهُ دُون الْحَشَفَة لَمْ يَتَعَلَّق بِهِ شَيْء مِنْ الْأَحْكَام , وَإِنْ كَانَ الْبَاقِي قَدْر الْحَشَفَة فَحَسْب تَعَلَّقَتْ الْأَحْكَام بِتَغْيِيبِهِ بِكَمَالِهِ , وَإِنْ كَانَ زَائِدًا عَلَى قَدْر الْحَشَفَة فَفِيهِ وَجْهَانِ مَشْهُورَانِ لِأَصْحَابِنَا أَصَحّهمَا أَنَّ الْأَحْكَام تَتَعَلَّق بِقَدْرِ الْحَشَفَة مِنْهُ , وَالثَّانِي لَا يَتَعَلَّق شَيْء مِنْ الْأَحْكَام إِلَّا بِتَغْيِيبِ جَمِيع الْبَاقِي . وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَم . ‏ ‏وَلَوْ لَفَّ عَلَى ذَكَرِهِ خِرْقَة وَأَوْلَجَهُ فِي فَرْج اِمْرَأَة فَفِيهِ ثَلَاثَة أَوْجُه لِأَصْحَابِنَا مِنْهَا وَالْمَشْهُور أَنَّهُ يَجِب عَلَيْهِمَا الْغُسْل , وَالثَّانِي لَا يَجِب لِأَنَّهُ أَوْلَجَ فِي خِرْقَة , وَالثَّالِث إِنْ كَانَتْ الْخِرْقَة غَلِيظَة تَمْنَع وُصُول اللَّذَّة وَالرُّطُوبَة لَمْ يَجِب الْغُسْل . وَإِلَّا وَجَبَ . وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَم . ‏ ‏وَلَوْ اسْتَدْخَلَت الْمَرْأَة ذَكَرَ بَهِيمَة وَجَبَ عَلَيْهَا الْغُسْل , وَلَوْ اسْتَدْخَلَت ذَكَرًا مَقْطُوعًا فَوَجْهَانِ أَصَحّهمَا يَجِب عَلَيْهَا الْغُسْل
Commentary of Imam Al-Nawawi on the Hadith
The saying of the prophet – peace be upon him- ‘When he sits between a her fours parts) mostly its home animal (shu’biha Al-arba) and has intercourse with her then fatigues her’
In another narration the word ‘Ashu’biha’ is used. The scholars have disagreed about the intended meaning of ‘shu’biha Al-arba’ (the fours) for some said that it means the arms and the legs, while others have said that it refers to the legs and thighs, and other said it means the legs and the edge of the pubic area. Al-Qadi Ayad chose the meaning of the four areas surrounding the vagina. The word (Shu’b) means areas, its singular form being (Shu’bah). As for those who say (Ashba’iha) that is the plural of the word (Shu’b). The word Aj-hada-ha (fatigue her) means to plow her, which was also stated by Al-Khatabi. Others have said it means to make her reach exhaustion as in the phrase ‘she made him toil and labor till he was exhausted’. Al-Qadi Ayad – may Allah rest his soul- said ‘Primarily, the word (Jahada’ha) means that the man exerted his effort working in a woman, where the word (Juh’d) means energy and refers to motion by describing the type of work. This is similar to his (the prophet) saying ‘he who plowed her’ meaning he who penetrated her by his motion. Otherwise, what other fatigue could a man experience because of her, and Allah knows best.
The meaning of the hadith is that the necessity to wash is not limited to when sperm is [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], rather it is when the penile head (Hash-fa, lit. “the head of the male member,” i.e. head of the penis) penetrates the vagina, then it is necessary for the man and the woman to wash. There is no disagreement on this today, even though there was disagreement on this by some of the early companions and others later. However, an agreement was later reached and this is what we have shown and presented previously.
Our companions have said that if the penile head has penetrated a woman's anus, or a man's anus, or an animal's vagina or its anus then it is necessary to wash whether the one being penetrated is alive or dead, young or old, whether it was done intentionally or absentmindedly, whether it was done willfully or forcefully. This also applies if the woman places the male member inside her while the man is asleep, whether the penis is erect or not, whether the penis is circumcised or uncircumcised. All these situations require that the person committing the act and the one the act is committed on must wash themselves, unless the person committing the act or the person the act is committed on is a young male or female. In that case it cannot be said that the person must wash, for they do not have the responsibility, rather it is said that this person is in a state of impurity. If that person can discern (the sexual act) then his guardian can command him to wash just as he commands him to perform the ablution washing for prayers. For if he prays without washing, his prayer has not been performed correctly; likewise if he doesn’t wash after he reaches puberty he must be forced to wash. If he washed as a youth and then reaches puberty, then he does not have to repeat the washing.
Our companions have said that intercourse occurs when a healthy male’s penile head completely penetrates (an orifice), as has been unanimously agreed. Thus, when the penile head has completely disappeared (inside the orifice), then all the regulations concerning washing apply. It is unanimously agreed that it is not necessary that the entire penile shaft penetrate to apply the regulations of washing. If part of the penile head penetrates, then the regulations of washing are not imposed as is agreed, except by an odd few of our companions who said that even in this case all the regulations of washing apply. However, this opinion is wrong, rejected and abandoned. If the male member was severed and what remained was less than the length of the penile head, then none of the washing regulations apply. If the part remaining was equal in length to the penile head length then that part must completely penetrate for the regulation of washing to apply. If the part remaining was greater in length to the penile head length then there are two famous opinions for our companions. The most correct is that if the portion that penetrates is equal to the length of the penile head, then the regulations for washing apply. The other opinion is that none of the regulations for washing apply until the entire remaining length of the penile shaft completely penetrates and Allah knows best.
If a man wraps a sheath around his male member and then [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] inside a woman’s vagina, then there are three opinions from our companions. The most famous is that the man must wash. The second is that he does not have to wash because he [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] inside the sheath. The third is that if the sheath is thick and prevents climax and wetness (in the vagina) then washing is not necessary, otherwise it is necessary and Allah knows best.


If a woman inserts (in her vagina) an animal's penis she must wash, and if she inserts a detached penis (thakaran maktu-an, lit. “a severed male member&#8221 there are two opinions; the most correct is that she must wash.
Sahih Muslim - Book of Menstruation - hadith #525 - Commentary
 
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WoodrowX2

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Why settle for facts when Drama is much more interesting?
 
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Crypto

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Hey, TGB123 (or something like that), you asked me about natural contraception in Islam. Look, it seems it is not OK (Haram) if you practice it when you are raping:

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I saw Abu Said and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Said said, "We went with Allah's Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Barli Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the 'Arabs as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah's Apostle (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence." (Sahih Bukhari 3:46:718)
 
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Ishraqiyun

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That commentary seemed like an incredibly detailed way of saying "if you have sex of any type you should wash". It didn't say anything to the effect that the more "odd" types of sex mentioned were acceptable according to Islamic law in fact many of them are specifically prohibited. It just says you still need to wash regardless.
 
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Of course, man. How are you not going to wash yourself after forcefully sodomizing a goat? If they had to legislate about these things it means that (1) this kind of things were/are common among Muslims and (2) some of those who practiced these things seldom washed themselves afterwards. When it's necessary, it's necessary.
 
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Ishraqiyun

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Many of the captives were made part of the family and may have consented for sex or marriage. In fact Muhammad prohibited having sex if the women refused. This is still a good example of a hadith that does sound bad to the modern ear and for good reason because it doesn't reject outright the taking of human captives for oneself all together. Obvioulsy a women captive could easily be taken advantage of and raped even if Muhammad did prohibit it which makes it a bad idea. They are being put in a vulnerable position.

The idea of women being booty reminds me of this verse from the Torah or the book many Christians call their "Old Testament" :

"Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves." Numbers 31:18

This same idea was unfortunately carried on into Islam as well. Old ideas die hard especially when given the stamp of religious approval like that.
 
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WoodrowX2

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Where does it say anyone was raped?
 
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Ishraqiyun

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Of course, man. How are you not going to wash yourself after forcefully sodomizing a goat? If they had to legislate about these things it means that (1) this kind of things were/are common among Muslims
Is that why the US has laws against bestiality? Why did they have to legislate against that? Was it taking place here in a Christian majority land?

Fact is bestiality is as old as humanity and hardly limited to areas populated by Muslims. The fact that very few people in first world countries live on farms may have contributed to a major decline but you still hear news stories of people raping dogs and other animals if you check out webpages on animal rights and animal protection. There is even a whole genre of pornography connected with that here in the West.
 
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WoodrowX2

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Sadly it is legal in some European nations and there are even Brothels that specialize in providing all kinds of critters




SOURCE
 
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Crypto

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The verse in Numbers is different from the lustful ahadith for several reasons:

(1) The verse in Numbers doesn't state that the captive women were going to be given the status of slaves of any kind.
(2) The verse in Numbers doesn't mention widespread raping of the captives, regardless of the captives' age. Actually, no raping at all is mentioned.
(3) The war in Numbers is restricted to the conflict with the nations that occupied the land of Israel. Numbers 31:18 is not an open-ended law, meant to be applied for all eternity.

On the contrary, the hadith that I cited mentions rape (widespread rape, to be more precise) and it was written as an example to be followed by all Muslims, at all times, under all circumstances, for all eternity.
 
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Crypto

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LOL. There is a huge difference between a law against bestiality (whose purpose is to disparage an abhorrent practice) and a law stating that you must wash after indulging in bestiality (notice that the latter law does not disparage bestiality at all).
 
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kenzo0

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Hi Woodrow, thank you for your patient.

You will find quite a few Christian Americans that believe America is a Christian Nation. some even seem to believe the Constitution came from the bible.
please show me that one came from the Bible, brother..


What many call Christian Principles are exemplified in the concept of "Manifest Destiny" and the belief it was the American Responsibility to expand Westward spreading Christianity.
I don't understand where's that belief came from, for the Christianity itself doesn't found in America or American
Do you blame Christianity for the "Manifest Destiny" understanding?
please show me from Christianity Literature regarding "Manifest Destiny" then I will admit that that was really Christ teaching.
If you can not, I should say that you had seen the "weed"




I'm sorry brother, how could you blame Christianity for this act while you can not give me evidence from Christianity's literature?
and please, once again... show me




every country has their own dark history..
I understand if you and your brethren blame the people who belief of "Manifest Destiny"..
BUT if only because of they were Christians you blame Christianity? this one I couldn't understand, and disagree with you.
UNLESS you can give me the evidence from its literature

As you have stated before, that "there were evil people in all religion"... and for this I agreed with you, but in Islam exception, because this religion blessed that action.


again, I have to ask you, show me
 
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smaneck

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Do you blame Christianity for the "Manifest Destiny" understanding?
please show me from Christianity Literature regarding "Manifest Destiny" then I will admit that that was really Christ teaching.

Here is a portion of the famous speech of the Governor Withrop of the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

“we shall find that the God of Israel is among us, when tens of us shall be able to resist a thousand of our enemies, when he shall make us a praise and a glory, that men shall say of succeeding plantations: the lord make it like New England, for we must consider that we shall be as a City upon a Hill, the eyes of all people upon us.”

Jonathan Edwards wrote that “the latter day glory” would begin in America. “It is not likely that this work of God’s spirit [the revivals] so extraordinary and wonderful,” Edwards asserted, “is the dawning, or at least a prelude of that glorious work of God, so often foretold in scripture, which in the progress and issue of it, shall renew the world of mankind.”
 
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kenzo0

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hi Ishraqiyun..
first you should know what the meaning of KUFAR, and how many KUFAR are there...
Although the Jews and The Christians are recognized as "People of the Book" in the Quran, but they are "kufar" because they not believe in Allah and Muhammad.



Out of context?
the verses/ayah in the Quran are ambiguous and dual standard, just like the command to kill, you found that it was used to defended Muslims and in wars..don't you?
some muslims have the same understanding with you, and I called them the innocent.
But, don't close your eyes from the reality that the "quote" you stated as "out of context" are applies even today...
Just one example for you, The London street murder incident; some Muslims cursed it, but some Muslims support and praised it...
I just want to ask you, if a religion's literature have such instruction(NOTE for you:this religion claimed as the latest religion) would you only blame the "evil person in that religion"?
in the future that "evil person in that religion" will die..
BUT, if there are "evil act instruction in a religion" it would remain there, as long as that religion still exist...




The quotes provided are very much in the category of those one might find in the Old Testament but at least the Quranic ones don't demand all out genocide and the killing women and children who are specifically called protected in the hadith as well.
oh my goodness me,I want to ask you, as a Christian would you swallow all the content in the Bible, especially OT? or you as a Christian take that verses as reflection to more understand and close to God?
if you as a Christian follow blindly what written in the OT, I don't know how to call you


yes, women and children protected in the hadith. and I don't find this thing are special. because in the same time, abuse the women and the children.



It would be like a person taking one of those verses in the Torah about a battle and then saying they are a call to kill everyone on the face of the planet who isn't Jewish.


You can find some shady things that shock modern sensibilities in both books but a universal call to murder anyone who isn't a member of the said religions isn't one of those things.
you are mistaken.

please show me from Christianity literature, the command to kill whoever leave Christianity, brother..
I could show you from "this" religion plus the implementation, if you like to, you can read in previous posts
 
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kenzo0

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Smaneck, where is the Christianity's literature in that speech and Jonathan Edwards remarked?
you not show me from Christianity literature nor Christ teaching..
how could you expect me to accept that "wrong accusation"?
 
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smaneck

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hi Ishraqiyun..
first you should know what the meaning of KUFAR

Kufar literally means ungrateful.

, and how many KUFAR are there...
Although the Jews and The Christians are recognized as "People of the Book" in the Quran, but they are "kufar" because they not believe in Allah and Muhammad.

Other than a few people on this forum most Christians do believe in Allah. Muhammad, of course, would be another issue by definition. However:

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, WHOEVER BELIEVES IN GOD AND THE LAST DAY AND DOES GOOD, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."{Holy Quran 2:62}

Don't see any mention of the Prophet above.
 
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smaneck

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Smaneck, where is the Christianity's literature in that speech and Jonathan Edwards remarked?
you not show me from Christianity literature nor Christ teaching.

Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that Jonathan Edwards was considered America's greatest preacher? His sermons *are* Christian literature.
 
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