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<blockquote data-quote="losthope" data-source="post: 58585598" data-attributes="member: 94863"><p>The article in the link is a series of statements about whether a person is serving the god of this world (Satan) or the one true God of the Bible.</p><p></p><p>In the Book of Common Prayer of the Church of England, there are these words:</p><p> from all the deceits of the world, the flesh, and the devil, spare us, good Lord</p><p></p><p>The words, the world, the flesh and the devil are not in the Bible, but the idea behind the words is Bible-based. For example, the three temptations of Jesus in the wilderness correspond to these three ideas although not in the same order.</p><p></p><p>I mention this because the article is about serving the purposes of the devil. Serving the flesh, and serving the world, are also relevant and some of the statements in the article are really more about the world or the flesh, rather than the devil.</p><p></p><p>Right, now to the statements. You asked for discussion of the results, so I apologise if I write a long posting that needs to be in two parts. In some cases I will apply the statement to myself. In other cases I do not see the statement as relevant to me. In each case the statement is in italics and my response is in ordinary type.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve the god of this world (Satan), the world will love you. If you serve God, the world will hate you</em></p><p></p><p>This is strong language, love and hate. The reality may be somewhat less severe, though I recognise that the writer is using strong words for emphasis.</p><p></p><p>Surely this statement is about serving the world, rather than the devil. If you serve the world, the world will love you. My experience is that those who serve the devil are almost universally disliked, while those who serve the world are sometimes loved, just as those who serve God are sometimes loved.</p><p></p><p>Do I serve the world? Yes. It makes me loved by some people and not by others. If I served God then I would probably still serve the world, but with a different motivation.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you try to serve two masters. You may profess to know God, but He takes a back seat in your priorities. Your money, your will, your control, your desires they are your master. If you serve God, you serve Him alone</em></p><p></p><p>This statement sounds as if it is written for people who profess to know God. That is not me. However, yes to an extent my money, my will, my control and my desires are important to me.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, the idea of submitting to the lordship of Christ is repulsive to you. You desire to hold on to your sin, while receiving the benefits of salvation. You think you can receive Christ as Savior, but not as Lord. You are proud, and God resists you. If you serve God, you humble yourself before the Lord, donning the yoke of Christ, and with meekness, you commit to serving Him all the days of your life</em></p><p></p><p>According to this statement I do not serve Satan, because the idea of submitting to the lordship of Christ is quite acceptable to me. To me when I was a believer it was more important that Christ should be lord than that Christ was saviour.</p><p></p><p>I have no desire whatsoever to serve Satan.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you love the world and the things of this world. If you love the world, the love of God is not in you. If you serve God, you hate the things of the world because you love God and His love abides in you</em></p><p></p><p>To me, it seems strange that John should suggest hating the things of the world that he believed God had created. Is this just over the top language used to tell people to serve God?</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you are friends of the world. This makes you an enemy of God. If you serve God, you are not conformed to this world</em></p><p></p><p>I would have thought it was serving Satan, rather than being a friend of the world, that makes someone an enemy of God.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, your closest friends are of the world and they corrupt you. If you serve God, you are not yoked to unbelievers, rather, your closest friends are born again believers</em></p><p></p><p>When I was a believer my closest friends were born again believers. However, as I mentioned recently, the believers in this country seem to be deserting me at present.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you take pleasure in unrighteousness. You love fornication and idolatry. If you serve God, you flee sexual immorality and idolatry and you hunger and thirst for righteousness</em></p><p></p><p>Here it is a combination of the flesh (sexual immorality) and the devil (idolatry). I am not sure why the writer links two such very different types of sin in this way. My response is that I have no interest in idolatry.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you do not obey the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you serve God, you obey the Gospel</em></p><p></p><p>Maybe I do not understand what it means to obey the gospel. Is it just about salvation? Or does it include following all of the teachings of Jesus? If the latter, then I do not anyone who obeys the gospel perfectly.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, your mind is set on earthly things. If you serve God, your mind is set on heavenly things</em></p><p></p><p>Correction. If you serve the world, or the flesh, or the devil, your mind is set on earthly things. I think you know already that I have no interest in life after death, and no awareness of spiritual concepts such as heaven. But that does not imply that I am serving the devil.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you are a slave to sin. If you serve God, you are slave to righteousness</em></p><p></p><p>More strong language. I hope that I am not a slave at all. Sometimes what I do may be righteous and sometimes it is sin.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you are most concerned with the affairs and cares of this world, you seek to fulfill your fleshly desires, you love money, fornication, and drunkenness. If you serve God, you have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires</em></p><p></p><p>This is about serving the world, and serving the flesh. My thought is that I am not overly concerned with the affairs and cares of the world, and I completely lack passions of any kind, of the flesh or otherwise.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you walk in the flesh and are controlled by the works of the flesh. If you serve God, you walk in the Spirit and are controlled by the things of the Spirit</em></p><p></p><p>You wrote recently that in the spiritual realm it does not have to be either/or. Surely a person can be influenced or controlled both by the flesh and by the Spirit. Perhaps one aspect of Christian maturity is a process of being more controlled by the Spirit and less controlled by the flesh.</p><p></p><p>For me, I have no awareness of any influence of the Holy Spirit. That is not how I would like it to be, but it is my situation.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you stand condemned as you have from the beginning. If you serve God, there is no condemnation in you</em></p><p></p><p>That either/or again, as in so many of these statements. What about those of us who do not serve Satan and do not serve God?</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you are controlled by him and he has dominion over you. If you serve God, you have been freed</em></p><p></p><p>Serve Satan? No thank you. Besides, I lack spiritual awareness. That seems to block any influence from Satan just as it appears to block any influence from God. If and when I discover my spiritual potential, that will be the time to worry about Satan trying to influence me.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you are blinded by him. If you serve God, He has shined His light through you</em></p><p></p><p>I have no awareness of light shining through me. Maybe other people can see it, but I do not. Nor do I have any awareness of being blinded. If Satan has blinded me, then surely God would have the power to release me from that blindness, but it did not happen, even during the time that I was a believer and trusted God.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you justify and/or deny your sin. You give yourself excuses to live any way you want to, and expect God to just forgive you. You call God a liar, and the truth is not in you. If you serve God, you confess your sins and He cleanses you from all unrighteousness</em></p><p></p><p>Yes and no to this one. Yes sometimes I do justify or deny my sin, though sometimes I admit my sin. But I would not simply expect God to forgive me, not until I was able to come to God in true repentance. I would never call God a liar although sometimes the Christians who hear me or who read what I write may think that is what I am doing.</p><p></p><p>When I was a believer, and thought that I was serving God, I did confess my sins. Maybe not with a true conviction of sin through the action of the Holy Spirit, but as far as I was able to repent. Was I cleansed from all unrighteousness? Only God would know the answer to that question.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you profess to know God but you still walk in darkness. You claim to have fellowship with God, but your lifestyle confirms otherwise. You do not practice the truth, and you are not saved, although you think you are. If you walk in the light, however, you are a child of God and have fellowship with the brethren, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ</em></p><p></p><p>Unfortunately I was never able to profess that I know God, or that I had fellowship with God. There was a time when I trusted that these things would happen, but I was disappointed. So maybe (or maybe not) I was still walking in darkness. Maybe I was not saved, although I thought I was. I did have fellowship with the brethren for a time. But that fellowship became strained when I began to have my doubts about my relationship with God.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you do not keep the commandments of God or the teachings of Jesus. If you serve God, you love Him, which means you obey His commandments and teachings</em></p><p></p><p>What about the person who keeps some of the commandments and teachings? That means all of us.</p><p></p><p><em>If you serve Satan, you hate the brethren. You have no fellowship with the brethren, for youd rather hang out with your worldly friends. You have no actionable desire to fellowship. If you serve God, you love the brethren and seek fellowship with them</em></p><p></p><p>No I do not hate the brethren. Though I do still hang out with my worldly friends some of whom are believers. I would never be able to say that I love the brethren, but I do seek to learn from them, and maybe one day there will be fellowship again.</p><p></p><p>(End of part 1)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="losthope, post: 58585598, member: 94863"] The article in the link is a series of statements about whether a person is serving the god of this world (Satan) or the one true God of the Bible. In the Book of Common Prayer of the Church of England, there are these words: from all the deceits of the world, the flesh, and the devil, spare us, good Lord The words, the world, the flesh and the devil are not in the Bible, but the idea behind the words is Bible-based. For example, the three temptations of Jesus in the wilderness correspond to these three ideas although not in the same order. I mention this because the article is about serving the purposes of the devil. Serving the flesh, and serving the world, are also relevant and some of the statements in the article are really more about the world or the flesh, rather than the devil. Right, now to the statements. You asked for discussion of the results, so I apologise if I write a long posting that needs to be in two parts. In some cases I will apply the statement to myself. In other cases I do not see the statement as relevant to me. In each case the statement is in italics and my response is in ordinary type. [I]If you serve the god of this world (Satan), the world will love you. If you serve God, the world will hate you[/I] This is strong language, love and hate. The reality may be somewhat less severe, though I recognise that the writer is using strong words for emphasis. Surely this statement is about serving the world, rather than the devil. If you serve the world, the world will love you. My experience is that those who serve the devil are almost universally disliked, while those who serve the world are sometimes loved, just as those who serve God are sometimes loved. Do I serve the world? Yes. It makes me loved by some people and not by others. If I served God then I would probably still serve the world, but with a different motivation. [I]If you serve Satan, you try to serve two masters. You may profess to know God, but He takes a back seat in your priorities. Your money, your will, your control, your desires they are your master. If you serve God, you serve Him alone[/I] This statement sounds as if it is written for people who profess to know God. That is not me. However, yes to an extent my money, my will, my control and my desires are important to me. [I]If you serve Satan, the idea of submitting to the lordship of Christ is repulsive to you. You desire to hold on to your sin, while receiving the benefits of salvation. You think you can receive Christ as Savior, but not as Lord. You are proud, and God resists you. If you serve God, you humble yourself before the Lord, donning the yoke of Christ, and with meekness, you commit to serving Him all the days of your life[/I] According to this statement I do not serve Satan, because the idea of submitting to the lordship of Christ is quite acceptable to me. To me when I was a believer it was more important that Christ should be lord than that Christ was saviour. I have no desire whatsoever to serve Satan. [I]If you serve Satan, you love the world and the things of this world. If you love the world, the love of God is not in you. If you serve God, you hate the things of the world because you love God and His love abides in you[/I] To me, it seems strange that John should suggest hating the things of the world that he believed God had created. Is this just over the top language used to tell people to serve God? [I]If you serve Satan, you are friends of the world. This makes you an enemy of God. If you serve God, you are not conformed to this world[/I] I would have thought it was serving Satan, rather than being a friend of the world, that makes someone an enemy of God. [I]If you serve Satan, your closest friends are of the world and they corrupt you. If you serve God, you are not yoked to unbelievers, rather, your closest friends are born again believers[/I] When I was a believer my closest friends were born again believers. However, as I mentioned recently, the believers in this country seem to be deserting me at present. [I]If you serve Satan, you take pleasure in unrighteousness. You love fornication and idolatry. If you serve God, you flee sexual immorality and idolatry and you hunger and thirst for righteousness[/I] Here it is a combination of the flesh (sexual immorality) and the devil (idolatry). I am not sure why the writer links two such very different types of sin in this way. My response is that I have no interest in idolatry. [I]If you serve Satan, you do not obey the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you serve God, you obey the Gospel[/I] Maybe I do not understand what it means to obey the gospel. Is it just about salvation? Or does it include following all of the teachings of Jesus? If the latter, then I do not anyone who obeys the gospel perfectly. [I]If you serve Satan, your mind is set on earthly things. If you serve God, your mind is set on heavenly things[/I] Correction. If you serve the world, or the flesh, or the devil, your mind is set on earthly things. I think you know already that I have no interest in life after death, and no awareness of spiritual concepts such as heaven. But that does not imply that I am serving the devil. [I]If you serve Satan, you are a slave to sin. If you serve God, you are slave to righteousness[/I] More strong language. I hope that I am not a slave at all. Sometimes what I do may be righteous and sometimes it is sin. [I]If you serve Satan, you are most concerned with the affairs and cares of this world, you seek to fulfill your fleshly desires, you love money, fornication, and drunkenness. If you serve God, you have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires[/I] This is about serving the world, and serving the flesh. My thought is that I am not overly concerned with the affairs and cares of the world, and I completely lack passions of any kind, of the flesh or otherwise. [I]If you serve Satan, you walk in the flesh and are controlled by the works of the flesh. If you serve God, you walk in the Spirit and are controlled by the things of the Spirit[/I] You wrote recently that in the spiritual realm it does not have to be either/or. Surely a person can be influenced or controlled both by the flesh and by the Spirit. Perhaps one aspect of Christian maturity is a process of being more controlled by the Spirit and less controlled by the flesh. For me, I have no awareness of any influence of the Holy Spirit. That is not how I would like it to be, but it is my situation. [I]If you serve Satan, you stand condemned as you have from the beginning. If you serve God, there is no condemnation in you[/I] That either/or again, as in so many of these statements. What about those of us who do not serve Satan and do not serve God? [I]If you serve Satan, you are controlled by him and he has dominion over you. If you serve God, you have been freed[/I] Serve Satan? No thank you. Besides, I lack spiritual awareness. That seems to block any influence from Satan just as it appears to block any influence from God. If and when I discover my spiritual potential, that will be the time to worry about Satan trying to influence me. [I]If you serve Satan, you are blinded by him. If you serve God, He has shined His light through you[/I] I have no awareness of light shining through me. Maybe other people can see it, but I do not. Nor do I have any awareness of being blinded. If Satan has blinded me, then surely God would have the power to release me from that blindness, but it did not happen, even during the time that I was a believer and trusted God. [I]If you serve Satan, you justify and/or deny your sin. You give yourself excuses to live any way you want to, and expect God to just forgive you. You call God a liar, and the truth is not in you. If you serve God, you confess your sins and He cleanses you from all unrighteousness[/I] Yes and no to this one. Yes sometimes I do justify or deny my sin, though sometimes I admit my sin. But I would not simply expect God to forgive me, not until I was able to come to God in true repentance. I would never call God a liar although sometimes the Christians who hear me or who read what I write may think that is what I am doing. When I was a believer, and thought that I was serving God, I did confess my sins. Maybe not with a true conviction of sin through the action of the Holy Spirit, but as far as I was able to repent. Was I cleansed from all unrighteousness? Only God would know the answer to that question. [I]If you serve Satan, you profess to know God but you still walk in darkness. You claim to have fellowship with God, but your lifestyle confirms otherwise. You do not practice the truth, and you are not saved, although you think you are. If you walk in the light, however, you are a child of God and have fellowship with the brethren, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ[/I] Unfortunately I was never able to profess that I know God, or that I had fellowship with God. There was a time when I trusted that these things would happen, but I was disappointed. So maybe (or maybe not) I was still walking in darkness. Maybe I was not saved, although I thought I was. I did have fellowship with the brethren for a time. But that fellowship became strained when I began to have my doubts about my relationship with God. [I]If you serve Satan, you do not keep the commandments of God or the teachings of Jesus. If you serve God, you love Him, which means you obey His commandments and teachings[/I] What about the person who keeps some of the commandments and teachings? That means all of us. [I]If you serve Satan, you hate the brethren. You have no fellowship with the brethren, for youd rather hang out with your worldly friends. You have no actionable desire to fellowship. If you serve God, you love the brethren and seek fellowship with them[/I] No I do not hate the brethren. Though I do still hang out with my worldly friends some of whom are believers. I would never be able to say that I love the brethren, but I do seek to learn from them, and maybe one day there will be fellowship again. (End of part 1) [/QUOTE]
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