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No conviction of sin
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<blockquote data-quote="losthope" data-source="post: 58541346" data-attributes="member: 94863"><p>To joey down under,</p><p></p><p>In posting 245 you wrote this:</p><p> </p><p></p><p>I am not sure that I agree, even in theory, that God causes all life experiences for everyone. You might find it difficult to reconcile that idea with the doctrine of freewill, or of why God allows suffering through earthquakes etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Did my worldview change? Yes and no. I was already familiar with the way of thinking of Christians, with their motives and behaviour and I more or less adopted that way of being. But as it was already familiar to me, there was no miracle involved, nothing that I could say that God had done. There was certainly no sign that I had passed from spiritual death to spiritual life; no change at all in my spiritual awareness or spiritual experience.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If my faith had been given by God, then I would have expected my experience as a believer to have been better than it was. I was not aware of any input from God to bring me faith. It seemed to me that it all came from within me.</p><p></p><p>I would not say that I valued my faith in a lowly way, even though it all came from me, as far as I was aware. I was definitely a believer, and I acted accordingly. My faith was important to me. The question is, was my faith important to God?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I dont think I need to ask my wife that question. I know the answer already.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would not say that no religious experiences can be trusted. Some types of so-called religious experiences I do doubt, but there are other types of religious experience that may be real. </p><p></p><p>You are right that it takes a lot of mental effort to ignore reality. In my case, the reality was that during my time as a believer God was not responding to me in any way that I was aware of. It is because I cannot ignore that reality, that I am not in a position where I could simply come fresh to God and try once more to be a believer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Helping other people is something that I do a lot. But I would not go so far as to describe it as a purpose. It is more something that just happens. Purpose and drive are things that I do not experience. If my purpose was truly helping people, then maybe I would be content with that, and would not be interested in Christianity.</p><p></p><p>Now to your posting 247, where you wrote this:</p><p></p><p></p><p>It is difficult to know what I miss in the Bible in terms of metaphors, word pictures and so on. I read what is there, and if there is some deeper spiritual truth involved, then I usually miss it. I can follow the facts and the historical narratives, although I may not recognise any deeper significance beneath the words. I know that I do sometimes fail to understand what people are really saying. My wife gets fed up when I say yet again, I dont understand or Im confused.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Signs and wonders are possibilities, but I would settle for much less if I was sure that it came from God. I appreciate that I am asking for more than most people do, but I have already stepped out in faith twice and been disappointed both times. The third time has to be a success, because if it failed again, there would definitely never be a fourth time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I had no intention to be hurtful or insulting. I do appreciate what you are doing, and I recognise that we have a lot in common in various ways. What I wrote was that I had no recognition of God acting through other people. God may well be acting through you. God may well be acting through several people, but with my lack of spiritual awareness I would not recognise it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have an intellectual awareness that I am not obeying the commandments. What I do not have is a conviction of sin that would make me want to do something about it. Unfortunately I know from experience that an intellectual awareness of being a sinner is not enough, because of the problems that occurred in my two attempts to be a Christian. So I am not ignoring it, not making excuses and not making it right with God. But I am trying to find out how I personally can make it right with God.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Ouch. If you are right, I am not aware of acting as you suggest. One thing I do disagree with is the idea that people close to me have been worn down and depressed into agreeing with me. Quite the opposite, usually. It is more that they see how I behave and how I cope with life. For example, they see that frequently I am lost.</p><p></p><p>I have not found that people are more understanding because of my limitations. More often, they simply tell me that my limitations are irrelevant, for example that emotions are not needed to become a Christian. I would like to agree with them, but my experience tells me otherwise.</p><p></p><p>For many years I was unable to trust God because of the bad experience of my time as a believer in the 1970s. But in 2007 a suggestion from someone I had contacted through Christian Forums enabled me to put the past aside and come once again to God on my knees. I am not trying to avoid faith. What I am trying to avoid is unsuccessful faith. Instead of that I want to be able to put my trust in God and know that God cares for me.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>I know what you mean when you describe me as an almost Christian. Although you could also say that a person is either a Christian or they are not. Some people do not know if they are saved or not, but God would know. Let me use an analogy here to consider an almost Christian. Think of someone who has failed to become pregnant in the usual way, and is undergoing fertility treatment. Due to the treatment she may or may not become pregnant. But she will have learned much about how the body works, about what happens during pregnancy, and so on. If you could describe her as almost pregnant, then maybe in the same sense I am an almost Christian.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes I am seeking for faith, sometimes not seeking for faith. Certainly I do not know if my faith (and whatever else is needed) in the 1970s was enough for salvation. Only God would know if I am saved or not. Only God would know if I have received justification. But the ongoing process sanctification is something that has definitely not happened for me.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>What have I done that only I could do? Apart from trying to find out about my experience of Christianity, I am not sure. What have I learned that changed me? The number one thing that changed me was my disastrous experience of being a believer in the 1970s. If you want to know what is the most significant aspect of my life, it is my experience as a believer. I am still trying to come to terms with it all.</p><p></p><p>I would not say that for me life is meaningless. Even the lack of interest in life after death does not take meaning away from me. Because with God there is always the promise of doing things of eternal worth.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, I think you have misunderstood me here. What I meant is that it is possible that God might want me not to know salvation just yet for some special reason, such as because there could be some special task that God has planned for me that I could only perform as a non-Christian. Using my unusual talent and experience in some special task that most Christians could never imagine. If that sounds unlikely, all I can say is that if God wants something, who are we to disagree?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="losthope, post: 58541346, member: 94863"] To joey down under, In posting 245 you wrote this: I am not sure that I agree, even in theory, that God causes all life experiences for everyone. You might find it difficult to reconcile that idea with the doctrine of freewill, or of why God allows suffering through earthquakes etc. Did my worldview change? Yes and no. I was already familiar with the way of thinking of Christians, with their motives and behaviour and I more or less adopted that way of being. But as it was already familiar to me, there was no miracle involved, nothing that I could say that God had done. There was certainly no sign that I had passed from spiritual death to spiritual life; no change at all in my spiritual awareness or spiritual experience. If my faith had been given by God, then I would have expected my experience as a believer to have been better than it was. I was not aware of any input from God to bring me faith. It seemed to me that it all came from within me. I would not say that I valued my faith in a lowly way, even though it all came from me, as far as I was aware. I was definitely a believer, and I acted accordingly. My faith was important to me. The question is, was my faith important to God? I dont think I need to ask my wife that question. I know the answer already. I would not say that no religious experiences can be trusted. Some types of so-called religious experiences I do doubt, but there are other types of religious experience that may be real. You are right that it takes a lot of mental effort to ignore reality. In my case, the reality was that during my time as a believer God was not responding to me in any way that I was aware of. It is because I cannot ignore that reality, that I am not in a position where I could simply come fresh to God and try once more to be a believer. Helping other people is something that I do a lot. But I would not go so far as to describe it as a purpose. It is more something that just happens. Purpose and drive are things that I do not experience. If my purpose was truly helping people, then maybe I would be content with that, and would not be interested in Christianity. Now to your posting 247, where you wrote this: It is difficult to know what I miss in the Bible in terms of metaphors, word pictures and so on. I read what is there, and if there is some deeper spiritual truth involved, then I usually miss it. I can follow the facts and the historical narratives, although I may not recognise any deeper significance beneath the words. I know that I do sometimes fail to understand what people are really saying. My wife gets fed up when I say yet again, I dont understand or Im confused. Signs and wonders are possibilities, but I would settle for much less if I was sure that it came from God. I appreciate that I am asking for more than most people do, but I have already stepped out in faith twice and been disappointed both times. The third time has to be a success, because if it failed again, there would definitely never be a fourth time. I had no intention to be hurtful or insulting. I do appreciate what you are doing, and I recognise that we have a lot in common in various ways. What I wrote was that I had no recognition of God acting through other people. God may well be acting through you. God may well be acting through several people, but with my lack of spiritual awareness I would not recognise it. I have an intellectual awareness that I am not obeying the commandments. What I do not have is a conviction of sin that would make me want to do something about it. Unfortunately I know from experience that an intellectual awareness of being a sinner is not enough, because of the problems that occurred in my two attempts to be a Christian. So I am not ignoring it, not making excuses and not making it right with God. But I am trying to find out how I personally can make it right with God. Ouch. If you are right, I am not aware of acting as you suggest. One thing I do disagree with is the idea that people close to me have been worn down and depressed into agreeing with me. Quite the opposite, usually. It is more that they see how I behave and how I cope with life. For example, they see that frequently I am lost. I have not found that people are more understanding because of my limitations. More often, they simply tell me that my limitations are irrelevant, for example that emotions are not needed to become a Christian. I would like to agree with them, but my experience tells me otherwise. For many years I was unable to trust God because of the bad experience of my time as a believer in the 1970s. But in 2007 a suggestion from someone I had contacted through Christian Forums enabled me to put the past aside and come once again to God on my knees. I am not trying to avoid faith. What I am trying to avoid is unsuccessful faith. Instead of that I want to be able to put my trust in God and know that God cares for me. I know what you mean when you describe me as an almost Christian. Although you could also say that a person is either a Christian or they are not. Some people do not know if they are saved or not, but God would know. Let me use an analogy here to consider an almost Christian. Think of someone who has failed to become pregnant in the usual way, and is undergoing fertility treatment. Due to the treatment she may or may not become pregnant. But she will have learned much about how the body works, about what happens during pregnancy, and so on. If you could describe her as almost pregnant, then maybe in the same sense I am an almost Christian. Sometimes I am seeking for faith, sometimes not seeking for faith. Certainly I do not know if my faith (and whatever else is needed) in the 1970s was enough for salvation. Only God would know if I am saved or not. Only God would know if I have received justification. But the ongoing process sanctification is something that has definitely not happened for me. What have I done that only I could do? Apart from trying to find out about my experience of Christianity, I am not sure. What have I learned that changed me? The number one thing that changed me was my disastrous experience of being a believer in the 1970s. If you want to know what is the most significant aspect of my life, it is my experience as a believer. I am still trying to come to terms with it all. I would not say that for me life is meaningless. Even the lack of interest in life after death does not take meaning away from me. Because with God there is always the promise of doing things of eternal worth. No, I think you have misunderstood me here. What I meant is that it is possible that God might want me not to know salvation just yet for some special reason, such as because there could be some special task that God has planned for me that I could only perform as a non-Christian. Using my unusual talent and experience in some special task that most Christians could never imagine. If that sounds unlikely, all I can say is that if God wants something, who are we to disagree? [/QUOTE]
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