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No conviction of sin
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<blockquote data-quote="losthope" data-source="post: 58541326" data-attributes="member: 94863"><p>To joey down under,</p><p></p><p>I will start with your response in posting 244 to what I wrote after reading In plain sight - Heart Of Matter. You wrote this:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, they also said in the website that the Bible is more important than any other writings, ancient or modern. For example they referred to Martin Luther and how he wrote about what the Bible said, in preference to other ancient writers. However, they also said that Martin Luther misunderstood the Bible in places again preferring the Bible to his writings.</p><p></p><p>There is of course the issue that the text of the Bible was fixed at a particular time in the past. There may be equally valid writings that have appeared since then, or writings from earlier times that have been discovered since then. However, I do not have access to these other writings and so I am happy to accept the Bible as an important source of information. Although I do not regard it, as many Christians do, as the word of God.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am not sure that I said I wanted to have a conviction of sin. Certainly not an emotional conviction of sin though maybe there are other ways in which the Holy Spirit could cause a conviction of sin. What I wanted to find out, when I began this thread, was whether a conviction of sin was essential as part of the process of becoming a Christian. The general consensus, and in the link, is that a conviction of sin is an essential component.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, I could substitute thinking for feelings. But is that enough for God? My experience suggests not. What I noticed is that in the link in several places they condemn what they describe as a mere intellectual acceptance of the gospel. But that is all I am capable of, intellectual acceptance of the gospel. If giving my all is not enough, where does that leave me?</p><p></p><p>Have I thought sorrow and remorse for sinning against God? At times when I was a believer, yes. It does not really happen now.</p><p></p><p>Have I thought love towards God in thanks for sending Jesus to die in my place? No. First, I am not sure how to think love. I definitely could not think love for a God that I do not know. Second, without having a conviction of sin I do not have awareness of a need for a saviour, and so Jesus dying in my place is not special to me. There are other reasons too, but because some of my ideas may not be acceptable to many Christians I will not mention them here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No I have not forgotten about metanoia. But what I wrote is about what I had read in the link, and they said that both repentance and belief are essential components of salvation, and I was responding to this.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or you could put it the other way and say that if I did/do not have a relationship with God I was/am not a Christian. I know that there was no relationship. I do not know if I was/am a Christian.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I imagine that there is much in the Bible that passes you by as being only of minor importance. The same is true for me, and I can only repeat that I have no interest in life after death. Do I believe in judgement, eternity etc? I really do not know, and it is not something that I will spend a lot of time thinking about and deciding if I believe it, because it is not important to me. Maybe one day it will be important, but for now it is not. Possibly because, as I have suggested before, I have no awareness of having a spirit, the part of a person that is said to live on after death.</p><p></p><p>You wrote of eternal life as being one of the promises of God. There are other promises of God in the Bible as well more abundant life, answers to prayer, a relationship with God, being changed through the action of the Holy Spirit, and so on. None of these other promises, and they are promises that I was very interested in, have happened for me. Given my disappointing experience of these promises, why should I concern myself about another promise that is not of importance to me?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As you can probably gather from what I have written here, I am quite low on hope (hope of finding God, I mean) at the moment. I am finding myself becoming more convinced that I am not going to find the relationship with God that I was searching for. It is an acceptance of the suspicion that without spiritual awareness, religion any religion is not going to touch me in the way that it should. I would like to think that I am wrong, but that is the way things are pointing just now.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="losthope, post: 58541326, member: 94863"] To joey down under, I will start with your response in posting 244 to what I wrote after reading In plain sight - Heart Of Matter. You wrote this: Yes, they also said in the website that the Bible is more important than any other writings, ancient or modern. For example they referred to Martin Luther and how he wrote about what the Bible said, in preference to other ancient writers. However, they also said that Martin Luther misunderstood the Bible in places again preferring the Bible to his writings. There is of course the issue that the text of the Bible was fixed at a particular time in the past. There may be equally valid writings that have appeared since then, or writings from earlier times that have been discovered since then. However, I do not have access to these other writings and so I am happy to accept the Bible as an important source of information. Although I do not regard it, as many Christians do, as the word of God. I am not sure that I said I wanted to have a conviction of sin. Certainly not an emotional conviction of sin though maybe there are other ways in which the Holy Spirit could cause a conviction of sin. What I wanted to find out, when I began this thread, was whether a conviction of sin was essential as part of the process of becoming a Christian. The general consensus, and in the link, is that a conviction of sin is an essential component. Yes, I could substitute thinking for feelings. But is that enough for God? My experience suggests not. What I noticed is that in the link in several places they condemn what they describe as a mere intellectual acceptance of the gospel. But that is all I am capable of, intellectual acceptance of the gospel. If giving my all is not enough, where does that leave me? Have I thought sorrow and remorse for sinning against God? At times when I was a believer, yes. It does not really happen now. Have I thought love towards God in thanks for sending Jesus to die in my place? No. First, I am not sure how to think love. I definitely could not think love for a God that I do not know. Second, without having a conviction of sin I do not have awareness of a need for a saviour, and so Jesus dying in my place is not special to me. There are other reasons too, but because some of my ideas may not be acceptable to many Christians I will not mention them here. No I have not forgotten about metanoia. But what I wrote is about what I had read in the link, and they said that both repentance and belief are essential components of salvation, and I was responding to this. Or you could put it the other way and say that if I did/do not have a relationship with God I was/am not a Christian. I know that there was no relationship. I do not know if I was/am a Christian. I imagine that there is much in the Bible that passes you by as being only of minor importance. The same is true for me, and I can only repeat that I have no interest in life after death. Do I believe in judgement, eternity etc? I really do not know, and it is not something that I will spend a lot of time thinking about and deciding if I believe it, because it is not important to me. Maybe one day it will be important, but for now it is not. Possibly because, as I have suggested before, I have no awareness of having a spirit, the part of a person that is said to live on after death. You wrote of eternal life as being one of the promises of God. There are other promises of God in the Bible as well more abundant life, answers to prayer, a relationship with God, being changed through the action of the Holy Spirit, and so on. None of these other promises, and they are promises that I was very interested in, have happened for me. Given my disappointing experience of these promises, why should I concern myself about another promise that is not of importance to me? As you can probably gather from what I have written here, I am quite low on hope (hope of finding God, I mean) at the moment. I am finding myself becoming more convinced that I am not going to find the relationship with God that I was searching for. It is an acceptance of the suspicion that without spiritual awareness, religion any religion is not going to touch me in the way that it should. I would like to think that I am wrong, but that is the way things are pointing just now. [/QUOTE]
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