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<blockquote data-quote="losthope" data-source="post: 58466545" data-attributes="member: 94863"><p>To joey down under,</p><p></p><p>You wrote this:</p><p> </p><p></p><p>I dont think it makes a lot of difference whether it is written or audio. Each can have good and bad, sensible or prejudiced, long or short, and so on. A written one may be difficult because it is more likely to use complicated terminology and long sentences. Whereas in an audio presentation, the language may be easier to understand but there is more scope for prejudice and waffling to occur.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You say that when a person becomes a Christian they start to understand things from Gods point of view. Is that because the Holy Spirit starts to work in them, or is it more because they learn Christian attitudes from other Christians? Or maybe a bit of both? Whichever it is, the different way of thinking would probably develop and become more natural to the person, the longer they have been in their faith.</p><p></p><p>However, it would only be like this for a person, who has no previous background of Christian knowledge and thinking. If the person grew up in a Christian family they would already be aware of Christian thinking, and would have learned how to look at things from Gods point of view, before themselves becoming a Christian. Or for someone like me, with years of learning from Christians before I was able to make a commitment and become a believer, I also would be familiar with the idea of seeing things from Gods point of view.</p><p></p><p>In other words, only for some people would becoming a Christian imply that they would start to understand things from Gods point of view. But even for the person who is already familiar with Christian thinking, there ought to be a change of behaviour, so that they begin to act more in accordance with how they think God would want them to act.</p><p></p><p>Would any of this necessarily require the action of the Holy Spirit in a person? No, it could simply be that they have learned how to think and how to behave from other Christians, and maybe from Christian literature, including the Bible, as well. So while I agree with you that there would at least be the beginning of a change in behaviour, even if not a change of understanding, the cause could be from copying other Christians rather than any work of the Holy Spirit.</p><p></p><p>You gave the example of the two painters deciding whether or not to declare some of their earnings to the tax man. I can also imagine other decisions and reasoning that some Christians might make. For example one Christian might have a completely different motive, and decide that as he cannot serve both God and mammon, he should give some of the money to the church instead of giving it to the tax man. Telling himself that he is doing Gods will, and definitely not sinning against God, although from a secular point of view he would be regarded as sinning.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Recently I have read and listened to more Christian material than usual. But I have read and listened to Christian material before, on my own initiative. It did not take me long to discover that if I wanted to hear more about a Christian topic, I would soon find plenty of on-line sermons on the subject, as well as reading material. Some of it helpful, some not very helpful. Some suggesting to me that I might be saved, and some of it tending to confirm my belief that I have never known God.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="losthope, post: 58466545, member: 94863"] To joey down under, You wrote this: I dont think it makes a lot of difference whether it is written or audio. Each can have good and bad, sensible or prejudiced, long or short, and so on. A written one may be difficult because it is more likely to use complicated terminology and long sentences. Whereas in an audio presentation, the language may be easier to understand but there is more scope for prejudice and waffling to occur. You say that when a person becomes a Christian they start to understand things from Gods point of view. Is that because the Holy Spirit starts to work in them, or is it more because they learn Christian attitudes from other Christians? Or maybe a bit of both? Whichever it is, the different way of thinking would probably develop and become more natural to the person, the longer they have been in their faith. However, it would only be like this for a person, who has no previous background of Christian knowledge and thinking. If the person grew up in a Christian family they would already be aware of Christian thinking, and would have learned how to look at things from Gods point of view, before themselves becoming a Christian. Or for someone like me, with years of learning from Christians before I was able to make a commitment and become a believer, I also would be familiar with the idea of seeing things from Gods point of view. In other words, only for some people would becoming a Christian imply that they would start to understand things from Gods point of view. But even for the person who is already familiar with Christian thinking, there ought to be a change of behaviour, so that they begin to act more in accordance with how they think God would want them to act. Would any of this necessarily require the action of the Holy Spirit in a person? No, it could simply be that they have learned how to think and how to behave from other Christians, and maybe from Christian literature, including the Bible, as well. So while I agree with you that there would at least be the beginning of a change in behaviour, even if not a change of understanding, the cause could be from copying other Christians rather than any work of the Holy Spirit. You gave the example of the two painters deciding whether or not to declare some of their earnings to the tax man. I can also imagine other decisions and reasoning that some Christians might make. For example one Christian might have a completely different motive, and decide that as he cannot serve both God and mammon, he should give some of the money to the church instead of giving it to the tax man. Telling himself that he is doing Gods will, and definitely not sinning against God, although from a secular point of view he would be regarded as sinning. Recently I have read and listened to more Christian material than usual. But I have read and listened to Christian material before, on my own initiative. It did not take me long to discover that if I wanted to hear more about a Christian topic, I would soon find plenty of on-line sermons on the subject, as well as reading material. Some of it helpful, some not very helpful. Some suggesting to me that I might be saved, and some of it tending to confirm my belief that I have never known God. [/QUOTE]
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