Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
Forums
New posts
Forum list
Search forums
Leaderboards
Games
Our Blog
Blogs
New entries
New comments
Blog list
Search blogs
Credits
Transactions
Shop
Blessings: ✟0.00
Tickets
Open new ticket
Watched
Donate
Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
More options
Toggle width
Share this page
Share this page
Share
Reddit
Pinterest
Tumblr
WhatsApp
Email
Share
Link
Menu
Install the app
Install
Forums
Outreach
Outreach
Exploring Christianity
No conviction of sin
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="losthope" data-source="post: 58252045" data-attributes="member: 94863"><p>To joey down under, thank you for your recent contributions. I have already responded to #94.</p><p></p><p>You wrote this:</p><p><em>Do you remember the fruits of the Holy Spirit? Passage: galatians 5:22-24 (ESV Bible Online) Look at them objectively - many christians may claim they feel these things. Do they demonstrate love e.g. charity work? Do they demonstrate joy e.g. being able to trust God during extreme grief/stress? Do they demonstrate God's peace in the middle of personal trials? Do they demonstrate faith in God e.g. trust that God has it all under control? Do they consistently demonstrate unusual kindness, gentleness, self-control that no normal person has?</em></p><p></p><p>I have never met anyone who really consistently demonstrates the fruits of the Holy Spirit, though I have met Christians who tell me that God has helped them with one or other of the fruits. But then, I would not expect Christians to be perfect.</p><p></p><p><em>Perhaps now it is time for you to try to look at the "I never have felt like I have a relationship with God" glass as half-full rather completely empty? There is a whole area of spiritual danger that you would never experience because you won't EVER measure your christian walk by ecstatic spiritual anointings or feeling God's presence.</em></p><p></p><p>It is more than me saying that I have never felt like I had a relationship with God. I am saying that I have no awareness of God responding to me in any way. Some people do speak of ecstatic spiritual anointing, but that was, as you say, not something that I necessarily expected for myself. There are plenty of other less spectacular ways in which God appears to respond to other people, but God did not respond to me in these ways either.</p><p></p><p><em>But you will probably say but I have never had any "measurable" spiritual growth. Well in Australia some plants are extremely slow growing. e.g. Xanthorrhoea An inch in a year! That's assuming there's been no bushfire or drought either! Someone inexperienced in botany may never see any signs of growth at all - does it mean that plant is dead though? Are the leaves still firm and green? Have you been in a spiritually stable environment (enough rain, stable soil etc)? Or have you been through a spiritual bushfire and gone backwards because you were not aware of what you had experienced without any sense of pain (feeling remorse, needing to repent etc)?</em></p><p></p><p>I agree with the theoretical possibility that I could have some very slow spiritual growth but was unaware of it. But if that had happened, do you not think that by now someone would have pointed it out to me? Or maybe God would have shown me what had been done when I was praying desperately asking for help to hang onto my faith.</p><p></p><p><em>There you go - you have just said something that makes that spiritual concept a lot more understandable to me. Do you think a genuine atheist/agnostic is likely to be able to do that?</em></p><p></p><p>I have had many years to think about what God might be like. Removing a few man-made constraints can help me to recognise that God can do a lot more than is normally thought. Could a genuine atheist think of something like that? Why not? I wrote of a God that I can conceive of, not a God that I believe in.</p><p></p><p><em>Showing that God is the one who is all-knowing God who knows everything from the beginning of time to the end of time. Therefore He would know if your heart/head is truly sincere if you are seeking Him - whether you ever feel "it" or Him in this life.</em> </p><p></p><p>I agree than an all-knowing God would know these things. I certainly thought that I was sincere when I was a believer. Now of course I am not so sure.</p><p></p><p><em>Everything that I have read of yours so far makes me think that you are sincere. The thing is that you are not the one who is reliable - you are human, you are imperfect, you will never have all the answers - have you looked to God for answers through the Bible?</em></p><p></p><p>Yes of course I have looked for answers in the Bible. I have found what ought to be answers, but if they do not come true for me, they are only nice-sounding verses.</p><p></p><p><em>Well honestly many people don't have the time these days and/or the ability to think through very difficult issues. The idea that someone may not be able to feel anything is too unbelievable to them. Do they get glazed blank looks on their faces as well?</em></p><p></p><p>Very true. People do find it difficult to believe that I lack having emotions. Some, though, believe me when I explain why.</p><p></p><p><em>And finally.... a while back I mentioned a sermon my pastor preached on depression and it's on their website now. "Growing with depression" (4/8/11) Oakden Baptist Church - Download free podcast episodes by Oakden Baptist Church on iTunes.</em></p><p><em>You might like the Lord, help me change series as it's a pretty practical one. They always keep all the Bible in context as well.</em></p><p></p><p>I found the download. I will listen to it when I can it may be a week or so before I have the opportunity.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="losthope, post: 58252045, member: 94863"] To joey down under, thank you for your recent contributions. I have already responded to #94. You wrote this: [I]Do you remember the fruits of the Holy Spirit? Passage: galatians 5:22-24 (ESV Bible Online) Look at them objectively - many christians may claim they feel these things. Do they demonstrate love e.g. charity work? Do they demonstrate joy e.g. being able to trust God during extreme grief/stress? Do they demonstrate God's peace in the middle of personal trials? Do they demonstrate faith in God e.g. trust that God has it all under control? Do they consistently demonstrate unusual kindness, gentleness, self-control that no normal person has?[/I] I have never met anyone who really consistently demonstrates the fruits of the Holy Spirit, though I have met Christians who tell me that God has helped them with one or other of the fruits. But then, I would not expect Christians to be perfect. [I]Perhaps now it is time for you to try to look at the "I never have felt like I have a relationship with God" glass as half-full rather completely empty? There is a whole area of spiritual danger that you would never experience because you won't EVER measure your christian walk by ecstatic spiritual anointings or feeling God's presence.[/I] It is more than me saying that I have never felt like I had a relationship with God. I am saying that I have no awareness of God responding to me in any way. Some people do speak of ecstatic spiritual anointing, but that was, as you say, not something that I necessarily expected for myself. There are plenty of other less spectacular ways in which God appears to respond to other people, but God did not respond to me in these ways either. [I]But you will probably say but I have never had any "measurable" spiritual growth. Well in Australia some plants are extremely slow growing. e.g. Xanthorrhoea An inch in a year! That's assuming there's been no bushfire or drought either! Someone inexperienced in botany may never see any signs of growth at all - does it mean that plant is dead though? Are the leaves still firm and green? Have you been in a spiritually stable environment (enough rain, stable soil etc)? Or have you been through a spiritual bushfire and gone backwards because you were not aware of what you had experienced without any sense of pain (feeling remorse, needing to repent etc)?[/I] I agree with the theoretical possibility that I could have some very slow spiritual growth but was unaware of it. But if that had happened, do you not think that by now someone would have pointed it out to me? Or maybe God would have shown me what had been done when I was praying desperately asking for help to hang onto my faith. [I]There you go - you have just said something that makes that spiritual concept a lot more understandable to me. Do you think a genuine atheist/agnostic is likely to be able to do that?[/I] I have had many years to think about what God might be like. Removing a few man-made constraints can help me to recognise that God can do a lot more than is normally thought. Could a genuine atheist think of something like that? Why not? I wrote of a God that I can conceive of, not a God that I believe in. [I]Showing that God is the one who is all-knowing God who knows everything from the beginning of time to the end of time. Therefore He would know if your heart/head is truly sincere if you are seeking Him - whether you ever feel "it" or Him in this life.[/I] I agree than an all-knowing God would know these things. I certainly thought that I was sincere when I was a believer. Now of course I am not so sure. [I]Everything that I have read of yours so far makes me think that you are sincere. The thing is that you are not the one who is reliable - you are human, you are imperfect, you will never have all the answers - have you looked to God for answers through the Bible?[/I] Yes of course I have looked for answers in the Bible. I have found what ought to be answers, but if they do not come true for me, they are only nice-sounding verses. [I]Well honestly many people don't have the time these days and/or the ability to think through very difficult issues. The idea that someone may not be able to feel anything is too unbelievable to them. Do they get glazed blank looks on their faces as well?[/I] Very true. People do find it difficult to believe that I lack having emotions. Some, though, believe me when I explain why. [I]And finally.... a while back I mentioned a sermon my pastor preached on depression and it's on their website now. "Growing with depression" (4/8/11) Oakden Baptist Church - Download free podcast episodes by Oakden Baptist Church on iTunes. You might like the Lord, help me change series as it's a pretty practical one. They always keep all the Bible in context as well.[/I] I found the download. I will listen to it when I can it may be a week or so before I have the opportunity. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Outreach
Outreach
Exploring Christianity
No conviction of sin
Top
Bottom