News in theology that's debated:The UMC commissions first non-binary trans* clegy

[Raphael Jauregui]

The United Methodist News Communications are reporting that the United Methodist Church has commissioned what they believe is the first non-binary transgender person to become clergy in the denomination. In 2008, the Judicial Council of the UMC ruled that trans* people can serve as clergy in the denomination because there is no official position.

Transgender person commissioned as deacon - The United Methodist Church

 

[redleghunter]

The United Methodist News Communications are reporting that the United Methodist Church has commissioned what they believe is the first non-binary transgender person to become clergy in the denomination. In 2008, the Judicial Council of the UMC ruled that trans* people can serve as clergy in the denomination because there is no official position.

Transgender person commissioned as deacon - The United Methodist Church

I don't find this surprising at all.

 

[CrystalDragon]

If M is trans, was he/she male-to-female or female-to-male?

 

[redleghunter]

If M is trans, was he/she male-to-female or female-to-male?

A valid question, but the most important question is why is this church ordaining a transgender in the first place? What Biblical premise is cited to support their decision?

Answer: none.

What Methodist church tradition or any early church decision helped them come to this conclusion?

Answer: none.

Is the UMC at liberty to rule in this manner? Yes of course. But I am curious on what they are basing their theological decision to do such.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

If M is trans, was he/she male-to-female or female-to-male?

That, I do not know. However, I do know that the Rev Barclay identifies, per the article, as non-binary or 'third-gender.' So, they identify as neither male or female.

 

[CrystalDragon]

A valid question, but the most important question is why is this church ordaining a transgender in the first place? What Biblical premise is cited to support their decision?

Answer: none.

What Methodist church tradition or any early church decision helped them come to this conclusion?

Answer: none.

Is the UMC at liberty to rule in this manner? Yes of course. But I am curious on what they are basing their theological decision to do such.

There's plenty of theological decisions people make that aren't on "Biblical premises". In fact not very many people seem to have read the Bible to begin with.

If I recall correctly the Bible was against mixing of races, or at least people getting married who were not both believers. But people of mixed race get married now and so do atheists and Christians.

That, I do not know. However, I do know that the Rev Barclay identifies, per the article, as non-binary or 'third-gender.' So, they identify as neither male or female.

I wouldn't say "third-gender" but more of "in-between", like a more psychological-based version of intersex.

 

[redleghunter]

There's plenty of theological decisions people make that aren't on "Biblical premises". In fact not very many people seem to have read the Bible to begin with.

If I recall correctly the Bible was against mixing of races, or at least people getting married who were not both believers. But people of mixed race get married now and so do atheists and Christians.

Where can I find God commanding not to 'mix' the races? I know He told Israel not to marry from the neighboring pagan nations. What does that have to do with justifying a transgender priest or deacon?

How do atheists and Christians getting married fall into this mix? There is substantiation not to do so.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

I wouldn't say "third-gender" but more of "in-between", like a more psychological-based version of intersex.

There is more than one to refer to the third-gender, meaning 'other', I'm sure. However, the Rev Barclay uses the word 'non-binary.' So, we should probably use that.

 

[SkyWriting]

A valid question, but the most important question is why is this church ordaining a transgender in the first place? What Biblical premise is cited to support their decision?

Answer:
Treat all other people just as you would wish they treat you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

 

[SkyWriting]

What Methodist church tradition or any early church decision helped them come to this conclusion?

The essence of the Law and the prophets.
It's amazing how many people think
the essence of the Law and the Prophets
don't count.

 

[Sanoy]

Unbelievable. “The church doesn’t want to be associated with discrimination." ...I think they misspelled discernment.

I grew up Methodist, I am so disappointed in them right now.

 

[redleghunter]

Answer:
Treat all other people just as you would wish they treat you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

I guess Pharaoh and Egypt got a raw deal then.

What do the law and prophets have to say reference one who is born a certain sex acting or trying to become another sex? Not to mention if they even meet the requirements of a bishop/elder or deacon?

 

[redleghunter]

The essence of the Law and the prophets.
It's amazing how many people think
the essence of the Law and the Prophets
don't count.

It's amazing what the law and prophets you quote condemn such actions as the UMC.

I have compassion for this person and will pray for her. I will not celebrate sin and interpret loving God and neighbor as accepting sin offensive to a Holy God.

Jesus Christ went in to sinner's homes to offer them healing and hope to turn from their sins. He did not embrace their sin, accept it and 'hug it out' if they rejected Him.

He said sinners needed Him, the Physician. Meaning He came to heal those who recognized they were sinners and in needing of healing and forgiveness.

We should, as Christians, be helping and praying for those who are being destructive to their own lives, not helping them destroy themselves. This is true for all sins which invade our lives and keep us from fully serving Jesus Christ. In the case of homosexuality and transgenderism, the challenge is difficult but we have a Mighty God who promises us to throw off our old self for a new creation in Jesus Christ.

In anything, it comes down to whether we want God's Will or our own.

 

[Wolf_Says]

If I recall correctly the Bible was against mixing of races, or at least people getting married who were not both believers. But people of mixed race get married now and so do atheists and Christians.

This right here is bull. Nowhere in the Bible does it forbid the "mixing of races". There is no biblical argument for this what so ever.

Please stop posting this nonsense. Ive heard it enough from crazy "youtube churches" and "kjv only christians" that my marriage is invalid, yet nowhere in the teachings of the Catholic Church does it state such a thing.

I am white, and a guy, and my wife is black. Oh well.

I never would have thought that somebody who proclaims to be Catholic would spout such nonsense.

 

[Wolf_Says]

There is more than one to refer to the third-gender, meaning 'other', I'm sure. However, the Rev Barclay uses the word 'non-binary.' So, we should probably use that.

How about we stick with the sex the person was born with? I am all for treating people with respect, but dont expect me to start playing make believe simply because a person suffers from Gender Dysphoria.

Electing a trans person as a minister or whatever simply is unbiblical

 

[CrystalDragon]

This right here is bull. Nowhere in the Bible does it forbid the "mixing of races". There is no biblical argument for this what so ever.

Please stop posting this nonsense. Ive heard it enough from crazy "youtube churches" and "kjv only christians" that my marriage is invalid, yet nowhere in the teachings of the Catholic Church does it state such a thing.

I am white, and a guy, and my wife is black. Oh well.

I never would have thought that somebody who proclaims to be Catholic would spout such nonsense.

Looking into it, the Bible actually does seem to have some problems with different tribes mixing, but it seems to be in terms of believers-with-unbelievers, or believers-with-idol-worshippers/different-believers. Not quite the "mixed race" thing I thought (for that I apologize), but still a "mixed tribes" thing.

 

[Wolf_Says]

Looking into it, the Bible actually does seem to have some problems with different tribes mixing, but it seems to be in terms of believers-with-unbelievers, or believers-with-idol-worshippers/different-believers. Not quite the "mixed race" thing I thought (for that I apologize), but still a "mixed tribes" thing.

It is in regards to beliefs and the persons faith. Not their race.

Apology accepted