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heron · May 5, 2005

Were either of you able to post in the other sections?
It seems a dilemma, as some are closed if you don't belong to that group (e.g., I can't post in Catholic threads). If so, you have been pushed even further into the all-or-nothing agenda.

Either of you, feel free to PM me with 100 questions.

P.S., Tim, the one-dimensional joke referred to the crisis at hand, not to you. I think I worded that poorly.

Eagle_Wings · May 5, 2005

TruthinFiction,

I'm still working on my response to your last PM! (Careful what you ask for heron!!!) You have a very valid point with your OP and unfortunately alot of Christians don't realize that one of the biggest turnoffs to non-believers (for lack of a better word) is "Christianese." Another major turnoff is constantly having God shoved down their throat, in fact my sister-in-law and I were just talking about this the other day. I have always strongly believed that my actions will witness to a person stronger then anything I say. People realize that we are different just by the way we respond to our everyday situations.

As long as the discussion is conducted respectfully, I've always welcomed and enjoyed these types of questions. I think one of the best things I've ever done is spend a year conversing with a guy while he was in prison. He was a pastor's kid that I had met just once at some retreat and then a few years later when we started going to his church I found out he'd made a few wrong choices and was paying for them. I started writing him, (my dad wasn't really too thrilled with that idea!) and he asked me some pretty basic questions about why I believed what I did. I was always raised with my parents telling me that I couldn't believe what I did just because they did, I had to have my own reasons. My dad's wording was that I could'nt get into Heaven by hanging on to his coat tails. John's questions really helped me research and understand why I took the stands that I do. Tim's questions have been a little deeper then that, but they are doing the same! (And I have found out where the word "Christian" came from and it's a badge I wear even more proudly then before! ) Unfortunately, not everyone responds as positively when they feel that their value system is under attack.

As far as trying to explain what I believe in a way that LittleLion and others could understand it...I'm not sure how successful I'd be at that. I try to stick to "layman's" terms and explain the scriptures that I use (without dumbing things down to the point of insult, of course!), but I'm one of those who have been raised in the church and have claimed to have a relationship with Christ since I was somewhere around 4-5 years old, so I really can't understand where others are coming from, though I do try. But it's just as hard for me to comprehend the belief of no God or that possibly the Bible is fallible as it is for others to comprehend my belief in God and the Bible as infallible.

Okay, now I think I'm rambling, so I'll leave it at that.

Asilentopinion · May 5, 2005

heron said:
Were either of you able to post in the other sections?
It seems a dilemma, as some are closed if you don't belong to that group (e.g., I can't post in Catholic threads). If so, you have been pushed even further into the all-or-nothing agenda.

Either of you, feel free to PM me with 100 questions.

P.S., Tim, the one-dimensional joke referred to the crisis at hand, not to you. I think I worded that poorly.

Hi Heron, Tim is busy working on his update that he calls, "A whole update of everything you are not supposed to talk about" lol. I would have to agree with eagle wings, careful what you wish for on the 100 questions part. The questions Tim has asked here are in the lower tier of his question tree. He is trying not to offend and like he said, to not be sent to general apologetics where Christians wouldn't be able to answer questions. When he gets to those top tier questions, I believe they would move them or ask him to leave the site altogether. He had sent eagle wings some of them mid-level questions.

As a Christian and his wife, I don't even like the questions. Especially since I know that his heart means well. He isn't asking the questions to try and dispute Christianity, instead he really just wants to learn. Think of it this way, when kids ask the question, Where do babies come from? The questions Tim is posting now are similar to that. Then the kids get older and they ask more serious questions, those are the mid-level ones, then that top tier of questions would be equal to walking into a classroom at a college, not knowing the subject but being asked to write essay on it. That is how deep those last questions are.

One thing I have learned is to give him an answer or a better word would be an opinion. It shows him that some of those questions are not known by man. I'm not saying to make him feel better about it, if he thinks he is getting that, he will go even deeper. We have a close friend who is a student at Taylor College, a religious school. She gets so frustrated with Tim. Yesterday, I asked her why and she said, "Because, think of this, if Tim focused on Christianity the way he has these questions, imagine the possibilities". Maybe that explains why people on this site have become so frustrated with him. They see the possibilities and how well he could help others but feel he is wasting it.

Don't know for sure, just an opinion, a silent one! Got to cook dinner, kids want hamburgers, Tim wants spaghetti, I bet anything he is, "swinging a deal" with them as I type this lol. Talk to you all later.

LittleLion · May 6, 2005

TheTruthinFiction,

My biggest problem so far has been the feeling of being baited away from my original question.

This is why you need rabid persistence if you want your questions answered.
Unfortunately, the only thing some people see is the "rabid" part ...

I'm trying to keep an open mind and be open to advice even though I think many people here need advice as well.

I htink a large part of the communication problems come from
1. people talking too much about what they think,
and
2. people acting inconsistently and not in accordance with their beliefs.
(In other words, there are genuine-leather-wearing vegetarians out there who believe killing animals is wrong.)

I sometimes think that religionists are either to go with fire and sword against non-believers, or have no contact with them, and certainly not talk about religion with them. Something like Hassidic Jews.

I would in fact be much, much, much happier if a Christian had simply told me,
"If you're not going to believe everything I say, then go away and leave me alone, and mind your own business".

Instead, they negotiate all sorts of things -- which is the worst.

James 1:26
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

It has become pretty frustrating when I can post a thread and can almost reply for 1/4 of the people on this site to my own thread because I already know what that 1/4 will say. There seems to be a superioroity complex by some on here. The complex that says, "You don't believe like me, therefore you are stupid and I can talk down to you".

I think they don't have the guts to say "If you're not going to believe everything I say, then go away and leave me alone, and mind your own business".

It's like we need to put a definition up for the word, "help". You ask for help but instead you get what your fate will be if you don't accept what they are saying. That is not help.

Exactly. Whom is help to be defined by? The one who seeks it, or the helper?

Then we will finish that with the word, "Christ" and they will see how, "help" and "respect" were two things that Jesus was known for.

Jesus wasn't known for respect ... Why was he killed? Because he disrespected the local authorities ...

Thanks for your posts,

You are most welcome.

Here is where I get in trouble. Littlelion, I think that when we get answers like this one that twistedsketch gave you it is because we thought more than they can understand. It's not that they are not intelligent enough to think about it, just not willing to think that someone couldn't possibly not know God.

They take knowing God for granted.

I really have around 100 or so questions that I would like to ask on here,

Could you PM them to me, please? I'm curious!

We are stuck, we ask for help, we get told our fate. Some kind of scare tactic. Not realizing that if someone is having trouble believing in God or the Bible that they wouldn't have a reason to be afraid. Just keep trying, there are a lot of people on here that are helpful.

I know! Thanks all, you know who you are.

But. There is something I have learned in internet forums, something that doesn't directly have something to do with the Bible or religion.

Stand up for yourself.

Just because the other person speaks with great zeal and conviction does not mean they know the ultimate truth, and that thus, they are somehow better than you.

* * *

heron,

Were either of you able to post in the other sections?

In my thread that was moved, yes. Elsewhere, I haven't tried yet.

It seems a dilemma, as some are closed if you don't belong to that group (e.g., I can't post in Catholic threads). If so, you have been pushed even further into the all-or-nothing agenda.

But I think the all-or-nothing agenda is actually good. Life itself is an all-or-nothing. You either love someone or you don't. You either do your homework, or you don't.

Either of you, feel free to PM me with 100 questions.

And if you answer them to our understanding, you'll get ... 60.000$?

* * *

Eagle_Wings,

I'm still working on my response to your last PM! (Careful what you ask for heron!!!) You have a very valid point with your OP and unfortunately alot of Christians don't realize that one of the biggest turnoffs to non-believers (for lack of a better word) is "Christianese." Another major turnoff is constantly having God shoved down their throat, in fact my sister-in-law and I were just talking about this the other day. I have always strongly believed that my actions will witness to a person stronger then anything I say. People realize that we are different just by the way we respond to our everyday situations.

As long as the discussion is conducted respectfully, I've always welcomed and enjoyed these types of questions.

I dare say you are relativizing when you shouldn't.

If you are talking about Christianity -- and you are talking about it with the authority of a believer -- then talk about it in full.

Say "Jesus" and "God" whenever you need to. Don't try to make Christianity sound more palatable to the ears of a non-Christian. If you do so, they will get a very watered-down version of Christianity -- and this is not what you want or aim for.

If you do try to make Christanity sound more palatable to the ears of a non-Christian, then you need to ask yourself why it is you are doing so. Whom are you trying to please? Certainly not God -- God wants you to be clear about your beliefs. The non-Christian? Why would you want to please the non-Christian by relativizing the very thing that you want him to believe?
Eventually yourself, because you feel threatened by the presence of a non-Christian?

Maybe, probably, my words sound critical, even offensive to you. But do think about them; and think about luke-warm believers. And about *loving* your *enemies*.
For there are enemies, you have enemies -- non-Christians: He that is not with me, is against me.

As far as trying to explain what I believe in a way that LittleLion and others could understand it...I'm not sure how successful I'd be at that.

Maybe the thing is that you can't explain it to us, that nobody can?

We are hard-hearted, according to you. And I just wish Christians had the guts to call us so.
Call us hard-hearted, and then love us. If you can.

I try to stick to "layman's" terms and explain the scriptures that I use

I disagree. No laymanning. Laymanning leads to layman faith, both in you and in the person whom you explain it to. Stick to Scripture.

But it's just as hard for me to comprehend the belief of no God or that possibly the Bible is fallible as it is for others to comprehend my belief in God and the Bible as infallible.

We can't understand you, you can't understand us. It's how it is to be. Babel in all its forms.

* * *

Asilentopinion,

When he gets to those top tier questions, I believe they would move them or ask him to leave the site altogether.

I would love to hear those top tier questions!!

heron · May 6, 2005

Littlelion and Eagle_wings,
Ha! 100 questions, yeah, don't send them in 100 PM's. Who said I'd answer them well? Just an offer. I noticed that a lot of time gets spent just recovering from harsh posts, then the questions still sit unanswered.

Hey, Silentopinion!

They see the possibilities and how well he could help others but feel he is wasting it.

That's probably true. If y'all (my lame attempt to connect with southern thinkers) look at the true meaning of discipleship, it is a training process where the faith becomes a part of you and you build in your confidence of using the tools to heal, defend, repair, care, teach, and not give in to natural attacks (a mix of Mark 16, John 21, Matthew 28).

We Christians often generalize about what Jesus' teachings were, that we were to continue spreading. Many teachings were to defend the oppressed, to sift through religiosity to the heart of the laws, to allow yourself to be one with God, to allow yourself the authority to carry out the miracles Jesus did (a controversial one) and to love each other. Jesus had a sharp logic that upset a lot of religious people. Yes, it's about his diety and salvation plan, but about so much more.

As I see it, Tim has already taken on a lot of the discipleship process over the years, and is pastoring a large group of people through his sites, his posts, his band life, and every part of his life. He might not have all of the message down pat, or agreement with the precepts, but he certainly has the heart of the message and the life.

This will shake a lot of Christian readers to the core! Please don't get off on a tangent here. But I do not see his life or approach as lukewarm at all. I see it as always learning, not having settled, not having enough evidence to defend God's ways.

Eagle_Wings · May 6, 2005

LittleLion,

LittleLion said:
I dare say you are relativizing when you shouldn't.

If you are talking about Christianity -- and you are talking about it with the authority of a believer -- then talk about it in full.

Say "Jesus" and "God" whenever you need to. Don't try to make Christianity sound more palatable to the ears of a non-Christian. If you do so, they will get a very watered-down version of Christianity -- and this is not what you want or aim for.

If you do try to make Christanity sound more palatable to the ears of a non-Christian, then you need to ask yourself why it is you are doing so. Whom are you trying to please? Certainly not God -- God wants you to be clear about your beliefs. The non-Christian? Why would you want to please the non-Christian by relativizing the very thing that you want him to believe?
Eventually yourself, because you feel threatened by the presence of a non-Christian?

How am I relativizing and who said anything about watering down Christianity? There is a difference between sugar-coating something and just making it understandable to the layman. It's like a client who brings their dog in to get checked out and I proceed to explain that the doctor's observation was polydipsia, polyuria, elevated glucose levels and his diagnosis is a disorder of the hypothalamic-neurohypophyseal axis. Now the common pet owner, or layperson, is not going to understand that jargon...for crying outloud, I'm a vet assistant and I can barely understand what I just said! Instead, I explain that the doctor observed excessive drinking of water, excessive urination, and a high blood sugar count which means that the dog has diabetes. I didn't water anything down nor did I try to make it sound appeasing to the client. It's the same thing with Christianity and in fact there was even a perfect example of this between TruthinFiction and another poster a few pages back concerning the Holy Spirit.

LittleLion said:
Maybe, probably, my words sound critical, even offensive to you. But do think about them; and think about luke-warm believers. And about *loving* your *enemies*.
For there are enemies, you have enemies -- non-Christians: He that is not with me, is against me.

No, truthfully, they just sound self-righteous to me and how have I not shown love to my enemies in my previous post? I don't see non-believers as my enemy, unless an individual chooses to be based on their actions towards me.

LittleLion said:
Maybe the thing is that you can't explain it to us, that nobody can?

We are hard-hearted, according to you. And I just wish Christians had the guts to call us so.
Call us hard-hearted, and then love us. If you can.

Then why ask? What makes you think that I view you as hard-hearted?
Ever heard what assuming does?

As far as the answer that you'd prefer to hear, I believe I gave it to you in one of your previous posts, only not so harshly.

Eagle_Wings · May 6, 2005

Asilentopinion said:
Hi Heron, Tim is busy working on his update that he calls, "A whole update of everything you are not supposed to talk about" lol. I would have to agree with eagle wings, careful what you wish for on the 100 questions part. The questions Tim has asked here are in the lower tier of his question tree. He is trying not to offend and like he said, to not be sent to general apologetics where Christians wouldn't be able to answer questions. When he gets to those top tier questions, I believe they would move them or ask him to leave the site altogether. He had sent eagle wings some of them mid-level questions.

LOL....gee, glad to hear he's taking it easy on me!!! J/K...I really am working on those answers though...had family visiting last week so didn't get too much time to work on my response, but should have it done by the end of next week at the latest!!

searle29678 · May 6, 2005

Sometimes it is really hard to determine someone who is really trying to understand and seek the truth and who is simply trying to argue every point you make about your faith.

I'm not saying every non-Christian here is trying to antagonize Christians but if you just don't want to see it for what it is then no amount of truth or lies is going to get you to come to Christ...period. What is the point of asking the question if you dont' want to believe or dont' like the answer. You can't come to God with a scientific mind and expect to be content with every answer you get, that is why the whole concept of Christianity is based on faith. I dont' see anyone here trying to dumb anything down or change how they feel about anything. It's just really hard to explain something that is so huge and powerful and all-encompassing. Especially to someone who doesn't even know if they WANT to believe it.
You aren't hard-hearted until you have completely decided to completely deny God. If you are asking these questions (collective you) to honestly seek God then please continue to ask. If you are not, then really....what is the point of asking?

heron · May 6, 2005

There are different directions that laymen terms could head:

One, as you suggested, that rewords terminology in our common language, knocking out lingo and replacing it with more detailed explanation...which we assume you meant

and

Two, generalizing to the point that watering down might even take away from the real truth, building an interpretation upon an interpretation. It didn't sound like you were saying that.

and

Three, condescending talk, which of course you wouldn't offer.

heron · May 6, 2005

"What is the point of asking"
Actually, so far in each of TruthInFiction's threads, his questions have not been answered at all. The entire time was spent on others antagonizing him.

searle29678 · May 6, 2005

I wish there was a better way to get and give answers. It's unfortunate that this is the one spot on the site where non-believers can come for answers and they get attacked or vice versa.

Eagle_Wings · May 6, 2005

heron said:
"What is the point of asking"
Actually, so far in each of TruthInFiction's threads, his questions have not been answered at all. The entire time was spent on others antagonizing him.

I understand where Tim is coming from and I've seen where his questions haven't been answered. Sorry, I must have forgotten to address my last post which was entirely directed to LittleLion, sorry if it seemed I was coming down on others. That particular question was in response to LittleLion's comment that nobody could explain the reason behind their beliefs to non-believers. If that's the way he feels then why be asking all those questions, that's all I was saying.

And now that we've gotten way off track from Tim's OP. Honestly, I didn't mean to hi-jack the thread!!

heron · May 6, 2005

Oh--I get it, sorry.

Eagle_Wings · May 6, 2005

That's cool~ no problem!

TheTruthinFiction · May 6, 2005

heron said:
Littlelion and Eagle_wings,

Ha! 100 questions, yeah, don't send them in 100 PM's. Who said I'd answer them well? Just an offer. I noticed that a lot of time gets spent just recovering from harsh posts, then the questions still sit unanswered.

Hey, Silentopinion!

They see the possibilities and how well he could help others but feel he is wasting it.

That's probably true. If y'all (my lame attempt to connect with southern thinkers) look at the true meaning of discipleship, it is a training process where the faith becomes a part of you and you build in your confidence of using the tools to heal, defend, repair, care, teach, and not give in to natural attacks (a mix of Mark 16, John 21, Matthew 28).

We Christians often generalize about what Jesus' teachings were, that we were to continue spreading. Many teachings were to defend the oppressed, to sift through religiosity to the heart of the laws, to allow yourself to be one with God, to allow yourself the authority to carry out the miracles Jesus did (a controversial one) and to love each other. Jesus had a sharp logic that upset a lot of religious people. Yes, it's about his diety and salvation plan, but about so much more.

As I see it, Tim has already taken on a lot of the discipleship process over the years, and is pastoring a large group of people through his sites, his posts, his band life, and every part of his life. He might not have all of the message down pat, or agreement with the precepts, but he certainly has the heart of the message and the life.

This will shake a lot of Christian readers to the core! Please don't get off on a tangent here. But I do not see his life or approach as lukewarm at all. I see it as always learning, not having settled, not having enough evidence to defend God's ways.

Heron,

"Reaching the southern thinkers", Ha. We say, "You'ns" too. One thing that I noticed in this post was about me having the heart of the message and the life. That is something that I try to do, thank you for noticing. A tangent? Nah, not me, Ha. Here is the funny part. As we know, I have been told to go to the apologetics, some of my questions were questioning the validity of Christianity. Well, is that not what a question is for? Then I pop up on aplogetics, repeating only things that I had read posted by others such as the Theory of Evolution, which I have even more trouble understanding since the animal is more fit for survival than the human. Then I talked about the whole dust creating people and the Earth. I was told that is Creationist but I read it from someone saying they are an Atheist. So I apologized if that was wrong, I was taking directly from what someone else has posted. Then one member tells me, "Your next stop should be the Friendship area to talk". Hmm, what kind of nonsense is this?

My only responses that looked like debate about the Theory of Evolution, were, "Humans are smarter" well yeah but smarter doesn't mean more likely to survive. Which is what evolution is about, survival. Then I was told, "go to the Creation area and discuss Evolution". Right then I told myself, "Stay calm, count to 10, do some curls, think about something funny". Somebody really needs to get a grip on this site. I ask questions in the questions area am told I am wrong. I go debate, bring up a perfect topic to debate but instead am told to go to Evolution if I'm not there to debate. It wasn't that I wasn't there to debate, it was that I made my explanation of the Theory of Evolution being wrong so easy to understand that they didn't want to touch it. Couldn't find a weakness in it since it was straightforward. I will probably post another thread tonight in this section.

Thanks Heron,
Tim

Littlelion, Here is going to be a question within a question. Now I'm hijacking my own thread. Those that read this, was Jesus respectful? I always took it that he was. It was the others who just didn't like his way of beliefs that had the problem. That would bring in what is respectful since he was preaching something they didn't believe in but I could still see that as being respectful.

For example, if a person comes on a forum and asks questions, in a respectful way, trying not to argue, is that being disrespectful since I don't agree with their beliefs? I may have worded that wrong earlier. Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't really question myself if the things Jesus done were disrespectful or not. Personally, from what I have read he was respectful, not judging, trying to help others. Either way, thanks for thinking, Ha.

Thanks Littlelion,
Tim

Eagle Wings, I hope those questions are not taking up lots of your time. One thing I try to do with those questions is make Christians think about the validity of words that have been translated many times. I was very careful in my wording of that so not to start a debate, because that is not what I am looking for from anyone. In showing these questions, it won't make a Christian stop believing, it will make them think more, something I honestly don't think Christians do enough of when it comes to their beliefs. Also I get honest answers, opinions, which help me look at the questions a little differently on my side of it. So both sides can learn from it.

Thanks Eagle Wings,
Tim

The 100 questions, hmm, I will work on getting them together. I won't post them on the forum though but will PM them. I thought last night was my last website update but nope, still have another I have to do so I better get off from here. Thanks everybody

Eagle_Wings · May 6, 2005

TheTruthinFiction said:
Eagle Wings, I hope those questions are not taking up lots of your time. One thing I try to do with those questions is make Christians think about the validity of words that have been translated many times. I was very careful in my wording of that so not to start a debate, because that is not what I am looking for from anyone. In showing these questions, it won't make a Christian stop believing, it will make them think more, something I honestly don't think Christians do enough of when it comes to their beliefs. Also I get honest answers, opinions, which help me look at the questions a little differently on my side of it. So both sides can learn from it.

Thanks Eagle Wings,
Tim

Tim, nope, they're not taking up too much time at all. Just ended up spending the whole week with my brother & sister-in-law who I haven't seen in 2 years and their 2 kids who I never met before. But, now it's back to normal life and now I can sit down and give that list the attention it deserves!! Actually, I find answering those types of questions challanging and fun. Just like you said, they make me think and I appreciate that!

Talk to you later.

heron · May 6, 2005

Too many crunches?
So sad. Why would they want to participate in a forum if they don't want to converse? I consider Apologetics the lion's den, or the colosseum of the forum.

Well yeah but smarter doesn't mean more likely to survive.

We've indentified with the movies, where we are certain we would be as smart. (I think of Will Smith, trying to outrun an alien that hops off a building.) Smarter doesn't work when you're sleeping in a dark, open hut or cave during nocturnal hunting hours or the middle of winter. Smarter works when you figure out fires, blockades, and buckets to hold liquid. Smarter doesn't work when you're trying to survive on the forum. Crunch.

Enlightenment

I was thinking this afternoon about the Buddha search for enlightenment. What did he think it was? What did others search for? What do we consider enlightenment?

TheTruthinFiction · May 6, 2005

heron said:
Too many crunches?

So sad. Why would they want to participate in a forum if they don't want to converse? I consider Apologetics the lion's den, or the colosseum of the forum.

Well yeah but smarter doesn't mean more likely to survive.

We've indentified with the movies, where we are certain we would be as smart. (I think of Will Smith, trying to outrun an alien that hops off a building.) Smarter doesn't work when you're sleeping in a dark, open hut or cave during nocturnal hunting hours or the middle of winter. Smarter works when you figure out fires, blockades, and buckets to hold liquid. Smarter doesn't work when you're trying to survive on the forum. Crunch.

Enlightenment

I was thinking this afternoon about the Buddha search for enlightenment. What did he think it was? What did others search for? What do we consider enlightenment?

Buddha was searching for enlightenment to life, to understand, much like many of us on here are doing. He wanted to be complete and feel whole so he wouldn't spend time worrying about his life, to reach contentment. It's very interesting reading. Most Christians that have looked into Buddhism enjoy it. It really doesn't say the worship Buddha at any time or that he was a God. He seen enlightenment as what would lead him to be calm like the monks he seen. I consider enlightenment to be a form of knowledge that we can use in everyday life. Had never thought about that before now.

Apologetics, Lion Den? *Smirk* More like a litter of hungry kittens just pawing to prove their worth. Some really intelligent people over there but also some that are letting you know it which kind of makes them not seem intelligent. The thread I posted ended up being an arguement over this, "We as humans" someone replied and said, "What is this WE junk". Um we as in, in general, we as humans, not meaning, "you" just we. Then we all ended up joking around about the way everyone takes everything so literal on here, until I was told to go elsewhere if I was looking to talk not debate. Really strange place, the bad thing, the guy who told me to go somewhere else was a Christian. Now see how long it takes for someone to say, "Are you saying all Christians would have done that", ha.

Thanks

heron · May 7, 2005

Thanks for the enlightenment. It's such a general term, I was wondering if it was understanding of human purpose, or wisdom for daily life, or maybe condensing inner power to accomplish greater things, or something uniquely spiritual, or a broader understanding of balancing the needs of the masses....or....

I asked about enlightenment because I've always been so internally arrogant and introspective, that I naturally slide too far into thinking I'm enlightened. In one sense, my whole life is a search for enlightenment; in another, I feel overly confident about insight and wisdom.

Within my belief system of Christianity, the Holy Spirit offers to give these things freely. I can't quite explain that without tangible evidence, but He gives enlightenment regularly that I tend to attribute to my own brilliance. And in reality, cannot.

I seek, and maybe find too easily, and can live somewhat ungratefully. I find a very solid core in me from standing in God's existence, and everything gradually grows to make more sense surrounding that.

(Cults do that too, eh?)

(Visitors, please don't comment on my use of the cold term
"belief system." It is used in comparison with Buddhism and others.)

Eagle_Wings · May 7, 2005

heron said:
I seek, and maybe find too easily, and can live somewhat ungratefully. I find a very solid core in me from standing in God's existence, and everything gradually grows to make more sense surrounding that.

Excellent point, I like how you worded that!

heron said:
(Visitors, please don't comment on my use of the cold term
"belief system." It is used in comparison with Buddhism and others.)

Awww...you just took all my fun away!! lol-just kidding.

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