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New Perspective on Paul

heymikey80

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Who's heard what about the New Perspective on Paul?

I've found so few people familiar with what it's about. I'd be interested to know what you've heard it's about.

I thought I'd post a couple of things here so you have some idea what's happening within this theological movement. I have particular reservations about virtually every theologian, and the NPP theologians are no exception. However, I think the reaction of Reformed theologians is very much out of proportion to the clear value of the the New Perspective movement.

The main thesis of all New Perspective theologians is that within modern Pauline theology every line of theological system has made certain biased interpretations of Paul. Most of the theologians have their own biased explanations where this bias came from; but they're all agreed there's a certain "cherry-picking" of Paul's words going on to try to favor one or another systematic theology.

Probably the foremost conservative theologian in this group is N.T. Wright, from the Anglican church. He's both a pastor and considered among the foremost exegetes of Paul today. He's not the sole conservative representative, though. Plenty of NP theologians are the regular liberal imagineers of ancient history. But a number of them are also careful scholars.

Reformed theologians have reacted -- and reacted badly -- to the conclusions and thrust of arguments within the New Perspective. They've attacked Wright outright, alleging things about him and his views that have contradicted Wright's written, published, and expressed statements. Frankly, they have done so after the fact too, making allegations that Wright didn't simply deny -- he denied them before they were even aired against him. Wright's most provocative statements are normally misinterpreted, expanded rhetorically to "Well he must mean ..." when in context he's explicitly stated why he doesn't mean them.

Given all that, I think it's worth mentioning issues I have with Wright in particular as I'm trying to apply some of his own methodologies back to his conclusions.

Final Justification/Judgement by Works
The most prominent of these issues is over Wright's view of justification. But you'd have to recognize what's meant by justification in Scripture to focus this argument. Y'see, "justification" and "judgement" are often the same words in Greek Scripture. So Scripture actually talks about Future Justification (ie, Final Judgement) explicitly, as well as Present Justification (ie, Present Judgement/Conviction). The arguments here are very interesting, and Wright has a number of valid points to make. However, he concludes that Future Justification is by works, although Present Justification is by faith. In Wright's view the Final Judgement will judge God's people by their works. This Wright draws from texts like Romans 2, 1 Cor 3, 2 Cor 5 to establish this. Sympathizers tend to pull in Matthew 25 on this count, too (but I haven't found Wright pulling on this passage, as it's not Pauline).

To me, something about works is being judged, of course. But to consider this to be the basis for God declaring a man righteous seems to me to go too far, even for Wright. For instance, only one of these passages calls these thinks "judgments" -- the passage in Romans 2. What's more on its heels is a provocative statement about future justification by faith directly from Paul: "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one. He will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith." Rom 3:28-30

Given that I "run in the same system" of exegesis and find Wright very informative about what Paul is saying, I hope you'll hear me when I say, this view of Wright's is not required to see Paul from the New Perspective.

Imputation
Wright also has serious reservations about the theological precepts entered in under the name of "imputation". He points out the word is seldom used by Paul. And further only one very general verse can even be brought to bear directly on the idea of imputed righteousness: 1 Cor 1:30 -- "He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption."

It's significant to me that Wright doesn't deny the results of imputation, but more its method. He essentially says that whatever is thought to be imputed to us, is indeed considered or "reckoned" to be ours, but not by imputation. It's considered to be ours because of our union with Christ.

And so to me Wright doesn't so much have a problem with the concept of imputation, but with the concept of justification by imputation alone. With this most Calvinists can agree. Without lopping off the arm of imputation we can still say imputation doesn't work in isolation, but it works as an organic part of our union with Christ.

We have to realize there are people who subdivide these things. I'm not talking about any "good Reformed theologian." But there are people who consider that we "got imputation" when we walked the aisle. To them if we've "got imputation", our relationship with Christ -- our covenantal union with the Son of God -- doesn't matter. Free Grace theologians come to mind.

To object, Wright has made a minimally valid point about imputation and essentially blown it out of proportion against such thinking.

If we were to look at the "redemption exchange" that Paul talks about as our ministry in the world -- "redeeming the times", "redeeming people out of the world", "pleading with you -- be reconciled to Christ", I think we must buckle under the fact that Paul is using exchange analogies to explain such things. He uses a marketplace analogy. What happens in the marketplace? We exchange money for goods. So I think Wright's pooh-pooh-ing of imputation doesn't hold up to intense scrutiny.

Still, Wright has made some points against the way we use "imputation". The idea that we are exchanging sin for righteousness is not highly visible in Paul's explanation. What's being exchanged? People. God's exchanging His sacrifice to gain people. God's doing the imputation.

And at 2 Cor 5:20-21 (whose meaning Wright has a different view, and one that is more convincing than at first appears) if we take the classic view we are exchanging sin for righteousness, but only because Christ is become sin (or sacrifice for sin) "for us" -- again, for our sakes, out of His union with us.

Again, good ideas, but I think a misstep.

Righteousness of God
I have to preface this, because it's been alleged Wright doesn't believe we receive righteousness from Christ: Wright believes we do. He's said so.

There's a phrase Paul uses, though: "God's righteousness"or "the righteousness of God", that Wright thinks invariably refers to God's innate righteousness -- His justice when He judges.

This again is an important meaning we can't ignore. Early Reformed theologians admitted, no one can really consider God's justice (ie, His righteousness) is communicated completely to His creatures. It simply can't happen this way. So Wright has a valid point: when God's justice is meant, it can't mean His justice is really transferred to us. Yet ... Paul would often be saying this exact thing, were Paul speaking plainly.

Wright pulls back from that view. But I think he swings too far the other way. There're places where Paul just doesn't seem to fit this model when he's saying, "God's righteousness." So while I think Wright has a point here, I don't think it's comprehensive.

Ultimately, Wright believes we are declared righteous in Christ, having received righteousness from Him. Wright's quoted Philippians 3:9 to that effect. It's not an issue for him.
 

Calvinist Dark Lord

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Who's heard what about the New Perspective on Paul?

I've found so few people familiar with what it's about. I'd be interested to know what you've heard it's about.

I thought I'd post a couple of things here so you have some idea what's happening within this theological movement. I have particular reservations about virtually every theologian, and the NPP theologians are no exception. However, I think the reaction of Reformed theologians is very much out of proportion to the clear value of the the New Perspective movement.

The main thesis of all New Perspective theologians is that within modern Pauline theology every line of theological system has made certain biased interpretations of Paul. Most of the theologians have their own biased explanations where this bias came from; but they're all agreed there's a certain "cherry-picking" of Paul's words going on to try to favor one or another systematic theology.

Probably the foremost conservative theologian in this group is N.T. Wright, from the Anglican church. He's both a pastor and considered among the foremost exegetes of Paul today. He's not the sole conservative representative, though. Plenty of NP theologians are the regular liberal imagineers of ancient history. But a number of them are also careful scholars.

Reformed theologians have reacted -- and reacted badly -- to the conclusions and thrust of arguments within the New Perspective. They've attacked Wright outright, alleging things about him and his views that have contradicted Wright's written, published, and expressed statements. Frankly, they have done so after the fact too, making allegations that Wright didn't simply deny -- he denied them before they were even aired against him. Wright's most provocative statements are normally misinterpreted, expanded rhetorically to "Well he must mean ..." when in context he's explicitly stated why he doesn't mean them.

Given all that, I think it's worth mentioning issues I have with Wright in particular as I'm trying to apply some of his own methodologies back to his conclusions.

Final Justification/Judgement by Works
The most prominent of these issues is over Wright's view of justification. But you'd have to recognize what's meant by justification in Scripture to focus this argument. Y'see, "justification" and "judgement" are often the same words in Greek Scripture. So Scripture actually talks about Future Justification (ie, Final Judgement) explicitly, as well as Present Justification (ie, Present Judgement/Conviction). The arguments here are very interesting, and Wright has a number of valid points to make. However, he concludes that Future Justification is by works, although Present Justification is by faith. In Wright's view the Final Judgement will judge God's people by their works. This Wright draws from texts like Romans 2, 1 Cor 3, 2 Cor 5 to establish this. Sympathizers tend to pull in Matthew 25 on this count, too (but I haven't found Wright pulling on this passage, as it's not Pauline).

To me, something about works is being judged, of course. But to consider this to be the basis for God declaring a man righteous seems to me to go too far, even for Wright. For instance, only one of these passages calls these thinks "judgments" -- the passage in Romans 2. What's more on its heels is a provocative statement about future justification by faith directly from Paul: "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one. He will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith." Rom 3:28-30

Given that I "run in the same system" of exegesis and find Wright very informative about what Paul is saying, I hope you'll hear me when I say, this view of Wright's is not required to see Paul from the New Perspective.

Imputation
Wright also has serious reservations about the theological precepts entered in under the name of "imputation". He points out the word is seldom used by Paul. And further only one very general verse can even be brought to bear directly on the idea of imputed righteousness: 1 Cor 1:30 -- "He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption."

It's significant to me that Wright doesn't deny the results of imputation, but more its method. He essentially says that whatever is thought to be imputed to us, is indeed considered or "reckoned" to be ours, but not by imputation. It's considered to be ours because of our union with Christ.

And so to me Wright doesn't so much have a problem with the concept of imputation, but with the concept of justification by imputation alone. With this most Calvinists can agree. Without lopping off the arm of imputation we can still say imputation doesn't work in isolation, but it works as an organic part of our union with Christ.

We have to realize there are people who subdivide these things. I'm not talking about any "good Reformed theologian." But there are people who consider that we "got imputation" when we walked the aisle. To them if we've "got imputation", our relationship with Christ -- our covenantal union with the Son of God -- doesn't matter. Free Grace theologians come to mind.

To object, Wright has made a minimally valid point about imputation and essentially blown it out of proportion against such thinking.

If we were to look at the "redemption exchange" that Paul talks about as our ministry in the world -- "redeeming the times", "redeeming people out of the world", "pleading with you -- be reconciled to Christ", I think we must buckle under the fact that Paul is using exchange analogies to explain such things. He uses a marketplace analogy. What happens in the marketplace? We exchange money for goods. So I think Wright's pooh-pooh-ing of imputation doesn't hold up to intense scrutiny.

Still, Wright has made some points against the way we use "imputation". The idea that we are exchanging sin for righteousness is not highly visible in Paul's explanation. What's being exchanged? People. God's exchanging His sacrifice to gain people. God's doing the imputation.

And at 2 Cor 5:20-21 (whose meaning Wright has a different view, and one that is more convincing than at first appears) if we take the classic view we are exchanging sin for righteousness, but only because Christ is become sin (or sacrifice for sin) "for us" -- again, for our sakes, out of His union with us.

Again, good ideas, but I think a misstep.

Righteousness of God
I have to preface this, because it's been alleged Wright doesn't believe we receive righteousness from Christ: Wright believes we do. He's said so.

There's a phrase Paul uses, though: "God's righteousness"or "the righteousness of God", that Wright thinks invariably refers to God's innate righteousness -- His justice when He judges.

This again is an important meaning we can't ignore. Early Reformed theologians admitted, no one can really consider God's justice (ie, His righteousness) is communicated completely to His creatures. It simply can't happen this way. So Wright has a valid point: when God's justice is meant, it can't mean His justice is really transferred to us. Yet ... Paul would often be saying this exact thing, were Paul speaking plainly.

Wright pulls back from that view. But I think he swings too far the other way. There're places where Paul just doesn't seem to fit this model when he's saying, "God's righteousness." So while I think Wright has a point here, I don't think it's comprehensive.

Ultimately, Wright believes we are declared righteous in Christ, having received righteousness from Him. Wright's quoted Philippians 3:9 to that effect. It's not an issue for him.
By the mention of the name of N.T. Wright you've said all that need be known about the "new perspective".

Wright is one of the primary Open Theology/Middle Knowledge/Molinism heretics. The other significant author is Dr. Greg Boyd...his name doesn't happen to show up in that book does it?

The idea isn't worth the paper it's printed on, or the stray electrons needed to transmit it to your screen.
 
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heymikey80

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By the mention of the name of N.T. Wright you've said all that need be known about the "new perspective".

Wright is one of the primary Open Theology/Middle Knowledge/Molinism heretics. The other significant author is Dr. Greg Boyd...his name doesn't happen to show up in that book does it?

The idea isn't worth the paper it's printed on, or the stray electrons needed to transmit it to your screen.
I'm sorry, I don't find any cross-connection between Wright and Open Theology/Theism. Would you like to support that statement?

Of course if we were to look for Molinism/Middle Knowledge theologians they abound, many much more primary than NT Wright. I doubt that any non-Reformed theologian is Calvinistic in terms of predestination -- hey, the Reformed also have a few shying toward preknowledge. Amyrauldianism comes to mind. Knock out those theologians and you have pretty much nothing to say about anyone outside conservative Reformed thought.

But therein lies a certain problem. Can we throw out people like Thomas a Kempis, Melancthon, Westphal, John Chrysostom, and still have any hope of getting a good theology assembled? I don't think so. I think everyone has profound errors in their theology, and we have to constantly reform ourselves by examining ourselves, and examining others for comments about our own theology that may in fact be true.

Frankly, I'm not a Molinist, nor an Open Theist. So why you'd think the New Perspective is to be judged on the basis of NT Wright alone I have no earthly idea. Isn't that ... the logical fallacy, argumentum ad hominem?
 
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Cajun Huguenot

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By the mention of the name of N.T. Wright you've said all that need be known about the "new perspective".

Wright is one of the primary Open Theology/Middle Knowledge/Molinism heretics. The other significant author is Dr. Greg Boyd...his name doesn't happen to show up in that book does it?

The idea isn't worth the paper it's printed on, or the stray electrons needed to transmit it to your screen.

Hello CDL,

I have to agree with Mikey. Wright does't even come close to "open theism." I have read a number of his articles and one of his books, I don't agree with him on many points, but I too think the reaction of some Reformed Theologians have been way over the top.

The big open theology guy is Clark Pinnock. Wright is not in that camp.

Coram Deo,
Kenith
 
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Calvinist Dark Lord

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Hello CDL,

I have to agree with Mikey. Wright does't even come close to "open theism." I have read a number of his articles and one of his books, I don't agree with him on many points, but I too think the reaction of some Reformed Theologians have been way over the top.

The big open theology guy is Clark Pinnock. Wright is not in that camp.

Coram Deo,
Kenith
Quite possible that i have some things mixed up. Not the first time. Convey my apologies to Mikey as well. Getting older is definately overrated.

Let us just chalk this little experience up as an admonishment to be quick to listen, and slow to speak.

Regards,

CDL
 
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heymikey80

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I've found so few people familiar with what it's about. I'd be interested to know what you've heard it's about.


not in the PCA it is a big deal with the Auburn Ave theology and federal vision. perhaps will lead to a division in the denomination.
This one's closer, but NP is distinct from AA. While they communicate with one another on a very congenial level, saying the New Perspective is Federal-Vision theology is kinda like saying the CRC is the PCA. They are definitely distinct, even different views, though agreed on certain significant points. Doug Wilson, for instance is self-declaredly a Federal Vision proponent, but also self-stated not agreed with the New Perspective on Paul.

There's definite overlap. For instance, NT Wright presented at one of the Auburn Avenue conventions. On the other hand, NT Wright also presents periodically at the CS Lewis Institute in D.C. And so does Ravi Zacharias. It doesn't make the presenters all related. It does make them all theologians with something to say that feeds the agendas of the respective seminar leaders.

And other contributors to the New Perspective, James Dunn, Richard Hays, etc., are quite different from AA's Federal Vision. And so'm I, for what it's worth. I don't have a great appreciation for Wilson & Schlissel, and Shepard makes me a little queasy the way he puts things.

Federal Vision is very much a new movement within Presbyterianism & the PCA, emerging around 2001. The New Perspective has been developing since the late 1970's.
 
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heymikey80

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Two other things I've found to be very poorly argued by New Perspectivists, and I think they're dead wrong on it.

Most New Perspectivists Accuse Luther of Making the Mistakes
One's their view of Luther. But ... keep in mind, none of the New Perspectivists are good Luther historians/theologians. They don't know what they're talking about with respect to Luther.

I don't think Luther himself made any severe error involving justification. I think Luther made certain mistakes equating 16th century Judaism for First Century Judaism, but I think Luther's assertions are generally sound.

I don't think Luther realized the variety of thought that existed in Judaism, though. The mix of works and grace that existed in Judaism is actually broader than "salvation by works". I don't know how much Luther realized this -- I would think his problems with semi-Pelagianism would lead him to find such an argument in Paul, even if he didn't realize it applied to First Century Judaism. And that leads me to my next problem with the New Perspective, below.

NP theologians base some of this on Luther's antisemitism. Their reaction against antisemitism seems to line up with Calvin's, though many in the NP, being rather liberal, clearly jump far beyond Calvin's appreciation and bearing with Jesus' kin.

In reality ... in reality I think they have a point, though it's misdirected against Luther. I think it was at the Enlightenment where Pauline theology spun out of control in Protestant thought. Unfortunately that involves American theologians a little more, from the late 1600's onward.

Many NP's think Paul's argument is paradoxically shallower, not broader, when we take a broader Judaism into Account.
Because Judaism is broader than we thought, Paul's argument isn't narrower. It's broader than we thought.

In fact I'll tip my hand: the breadth of Judaism at the time rivals the breadth that appears in semi-Pelagian Christianity.

And Paul is reacting against that breadth. Were we to read Paul consistently with what Wright proposed, -- that is, when I did -- I think we'd uncover a very unsettling indictment of every mix of works and grace(/promise) proposed by the church since the New Testament was written.

And that's a sweeping indictment against Wright's concluded view what it means for modern Christianity.

So when I look at Wright's exegetical arguments -- not his pastoral application -- I see in it a powerful argument for the classic Reformation discovery: Judaism is not simply works-righteousness, it's also "grace+works=righteousness". And Paul is reacting against that view. To conclude as Wright did that Paul is limiting his argument instead of broadening it to encompass all different kinds of Judaism -- I think is an artificial move. To me Paul's argument is sweeping.
 
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heymikey80

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Quite possible that i have some things mixed up. Not the first time. Convey my apologies to Mikey as well. Getting older is definately overrated.
Well, what you say is definitely not out of the realm of things Wright's been accused of, so I'm interested in what you do find. I hear the statements so much now that I'm jaded 'til I get something from people that I can read -- in context -- and see for myself what they mean.

I wish it could be otherwise.

I remember listening to Duncan decry Wright's view of justification. It was odd, having read Wright on it and then listening to Duncan. He makes the same mistake over and over again, saying Wright means justification to be ecclesiological. When you read Wright, he's saying the reason Paul brings up the subject is because of an ecclesiological problem in the early church. We have to notice that, so we can put Paul's statements in the context of where Paul is headed when he talks about justification. However, Wright doesn't neglect the soteriological implication of justification:
The passage [Rom 3:21-31] is all about the covenant, membership in which is now thrown open to Jew and Gentile alike; therefore it is all about God's dealing with sin in the cross and resurrection of Jesus, because that was what the covenant was intended to do in the first place. ... Once we fully grasp the nature of Pauline covenant theology, the fears that some have expressed, that a 'covenantal' reading of Paul will do away with a proper theology of sin and the cross, are shown to be groundless. The purpose of the covenant, which was to deal with the sin of the world, has been accomplished in the cross of Jesus Christ the Lord. (Wright, "What St. Paul Really Said", p. 128)
To me this has been a critical mistake of the critics. Almost every critic -- to a man -- has accused Wright of making justification ecclesial when it's about salvation. But that's not true. In fact Wright has Paul using justification as the reason why salvation is now toward Gentiles as well as Jews. And as a result, Jewish scruples about Gentile uncleanness are baseless, and Gentiles should be embraced as fellow-citizens in the Kingdom of God.
 
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