New OCD...May Trigger Obsession.

[Caty]

Okay, so now that I’m finally beginning to understand my disorder more & that God forgives everyone and anyone who wants it. I’m starting to have this fear that, the Bible was interpreted incorrectly and we have misunderstood how to gain salvation. I feel stupid & guilty for writing this because it kinda seems illogical, but I do worry about it. Has anyone else had this? I guess its just the "what if"…have you noticed that most all obsessions are, "what if I meant that," or "what if this isn’t right?" or "what if this is right."

 

[annrobert]

Caty,

Look down deep in your spirit where you know the truth and that should comfort you.If you really believed this obsession it would not bother you.Because deep down inside you know these ocd thoughts coming into your mind are false , this causes you distress.So really look deep inside your spirit and be comforted with the truth you know.I hope this makes sense and helps you some
be blessed
annrobert

 

[seajoy]

It's all ocd, Caty. Try and remember that for all obsessions....even the new ones.

 

[keryakos]

Okay, so now that I’m finally beginning to understand my disorder more & that God forgives everyone and anyone who wants it. I’m starting to have this fear that, the Bible was interpreted incorrectly and we have misunderstood how to gain salvation. I feel stupid & guilty for writing this because it kinda seems illogical, but I do worry about it. Has anyone else had this? I guess its just the "what if"…have you noticed that most all obsessions are, "what if I meant that," or "what if this isn’t right?" or "what if this is right."

Caty yes i have ..But to be totally honest it has happened with certain translations ..but this is where it is so important to understand that the Grace of God goes beyond the bible .. God is not capricious and if just enough to save us got through the translation then as far as salvation is concerned it is a moot point ..

But i do understand the fear ..sometimes you wonder with so many translations and so many churches ..

 

[Caty]

but this is where it is so important to understand that the Grace of God goes beyond the bible .. God is not capricious and if just enough to save us got through the translation then as far as salvation is concerned it is a moot point ..quote]

I don't think I really understand what you are trying to say...can you explain?

see my fear, has to do the the unforgivable sin (everything is centered around it) I fear that since there appears to be a contradiction when you first read that verse, that maybe the Bible was translated wrong as in, like instead of forgiving all sin, God really means some sin. Or that because Paul said he could be forgiven only because of ignorance that it means, that the only way you can be forgiven is if you didn't know God. See what I mean? That is my OCD fear right now, and this one is really making me lose some sleep.

 

[pjspara]

sorry. that pasting thing didnt work above..... that was the post i sent to robert on another thread to explain what the unpardonable sin means... from 2 different study bibles from conservative and charasmatic views.... so no i dont think you could sin that sin or you wouldnt be worried about it....because you would have chosen not to believe at all.....


pj

 

[pjspara]

Let me answer your question in two ways. First, let's take a close look at Matthew 12:31, and then let me comment on what you say about yourself.
In Matthew 12:31, the Pharisees are faced with positive proof that Jesus is who he says he is. They know that what Jesus is doing is of the Spirit of God. But rather than believe, they ascribe the work of the Spirit to the devil. Jesus comments on this, "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." Is Jesus' point simply that this is a special sin for which there is no forgiveness? The answer is No. There is no sin so great that the precious blood of the Son of God -- of infinite value before God -- is not sufficient to pay for it. The issue is that forgiveness comes only to those who believe on the Lord Jesus. And someone who knows who Jesus is -- who realizes that his work is by the Holy Spirit -- and yet so refuses to believe that he actually ascribes the Spirit's work to the devil, cannot possibly be saved. Why? Because that person is not just ignorant, but they willfully, knowingly, reject Jesus as Messiah, as proved by the Holy Spirit. So this passage describes not someone who in a fit of anger or temptation commits blasphemy, but someone who refuses to believe on Jesus as the Messiah, even when he recognizes the Holy Spirit at work.
Now let me comment on what you say about yourself. You would be astonished to learn how many believers are tempted by the devil to believe that they cannot be forgiven because of this verse. Numerous people, acting either under psychological stress, anger, unbelief, doubt, confusion, etc., have uttered or thought blasphemous things regarding the Spirit. The devil is not able to take away our salvation, so he wants to disarm us by causing us anguishing doubts regarding our salvation. I myself have experienced this, early in my Christian life, and under such pressure have verbalized blasphemous things regarding the Holy Spirit. Nonetheless, I believe on Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I have since grown considerably in my Christian life -- and that has involved a lot of repentance -- and the Lord uses me in ministry. I do not think that what you are experiencing is the unforgivable sin.
Based on what you have written, I would make the following observations:

1. The very fact that you are concerned about this indicates that you are not in a situation wherein you cannot repent or be saved. Only a believer would ever have these anguishing concerns or be so concerned about his or her salvation.

2. Salvation is by faith alone. The way to know that you are saved is to ask yourself, "Do I believe on Jesus as my Lord and Savior?" According to the Bible, that can only happen by the work of the Holy Spirit. I don't know if you believe or not, but you most certainly can know. So, do you believe on Jesus or not? If you do, then you are a far cry from the men about whom Jesus was speaking in Matthew 12, men who even confronted with proof of the Spirit refused to believe.

3. What you need is to believe in the promises of the Bible about salvation through faith. Jesus said, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life" (John 3:36). Of course, you now have a great need for sanctification. If you continue on in a wicked life, with no repentance and no good works, without any change, then I will agree that your profession of faith is questionable. So stop letting the devil side-track you with issues like the unforgivable sin, and believe on Jesus. Trust his Word. Start actually repenting and that will answer your concerns about whether or not you are able to repent. If you are hung up on a certain sin, then start praying to God for his power in your life. Walk with him and he will change you. But no longer allow the devil to hang you up on this matter. Say to him what Martin Luther said when the devil came to him in a vision accusing him of being beyond salvation because of his sins. Luther shot back with 1 John 1:7 -- "The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin." Note the "all". So trust in the blood of Jesus and you can know that each and every sin of yours is cleansed.

this i found online... and i agree with it.....



pj

 

[keryakos]

but this is where it is so important to understand that the Grace of God goes beyond the bible .. God is not capricious and if just enough to save us got through the translation then as far as salvation is concerned it is a moot point ..quote]

I don't think I really understand what you are trying to say...can you explain?

"Its a moot point ...so lets forget about that .."

see my fear, has to do the the unforgivable sin (everything is centered around it) I fear that since there appears to be a contradiction when you first read that verse, that maybe the Bible was translated wrong as in, like instead of forgiving all sin, God really means some sin. Or that because Paul said he could be forgiven only because of ignorance that it means, that the only way you can be forgiven is if you didn't know God. See what I mean? That is my OCD fear right now, and this one is really making me lose some sleep.

" I do understand what you mean now and i do share youre fear and terror so im struggling with this as well ...



the post that pj made is a good one above me ..

 

[annrobert]

Caty,
I am so sorry you are suffering with this pain right now, I know that this is such a terrible thing to suffer with.Jesus did say all sins and blasphemies will be forgiven,so the unpardonable sin must have something to do with rejecting the Holy Spirit's call to come to Jesus.One thing that helps me is that Jesus said , he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.Jesus said this and Jesus is truth.So if a person is coming to Jesus they did not commit the unpardonable sin, since Jesus said he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.We cannot even come to Jesus unless the Father has given us to Jesus.Jesus said all that the Father has given Me will come to Me and He that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.The Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus and calls us to Jesus.That is why we come to Jesus, and when we come to Jesus He will in no wise cast us out.I hope this comforts you some.
blessings
annrobert

 

[kaykay9.0]

Caty,
This just sounds like the classic OCD ploy. It's like when your mind gets some relief in one area, you OCD brain begins to try to find some exception or some other reason why you shouldn't be at peace. That's why it's good to have the correct theology, but ultimately if you suspect, OCD, you need to go to the doctor and/or counselor and try to treat the OCD, not just the current obsession. Does that make sense, hon?

 

[Ridgeback]

Let me answer your question in two ways. First, let's take a close look at Matthew 12:31, and then let me comment on what you say about yourself.
In Matthew 12:31, the Pharisees are faced with positive proof that Jesus is who he says he is. They know that what Jesus is doing is of the Spirit of God. But rather than believe, they ascribe the work of the Spirit to the devil. Jesus comments on this, "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." Is Jesus' point simply that this is a special sin for which there is no forgiveness? The answer is No. There is no sin so great that the precious blood of the Son of God -- of infinite value before God -- is not sufficient to pay for it. The issue is that forgiveness comes only to those who believe on the Lord Jesus. And someone who knows who Jesus is -- who realizes that his work is by the Holy Spirit -- and yet so refuses to believe that he actually ascribes the Spirit's work to the devil, cannot possibly be saved. Why? Because that person is not just ignorant, but they willfully, knowingly, reject Jesus as Messiah, as proved by the Holy Spirit. So this passage describes not someone who in a fit of anger or temptation commits blasphemy, but someone who refuses to believe on Jesus as the Messiah, even when he recognizes the Holy Spirit at work.
Now let me comment on what you say about yourself. You would be astonished to learn how many believers are tempted by the devil to believe that they cannot be forgiven because of this verse. Numerous people, acting either under psychological stress, anger, unbelief, doubt, confusion, etc., have uttered or thought blasphemous things regarding the Spirit. The devil is not able to take away our salvation, so he wants to disarm us by causing us anguishing doubts regarding our salvation. I myself have experienced this, early in my Christian life, and under such pressure have verbalized blasphemous things regarding the Holy Spirit. Nonetheless, I believe on Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I have since grown considerably in my Christian life -- and that has involved a lot of repentance -- and the Lord uses me in ministry. I do not think that what you are experiencing is the unforgivable sin.
Based on what you have written, I would make the following observations:

1. The very fact that you are concerned about this indicates that you are not in a situation wherein you cannot repent or be saved. Only a believer would ever have these anguishing concerns or be so concerned about his or her salvation.

2. Salvation is by faith alone. The way to know that you are saved is to ask yourself, "Do I believe on Jesus as my Lord and Savior?" According to the Bible, that can only happen by the work of the Holy Spirit. I don't know if you believe or not, but you most certainly can know. So, do you believe on Jesus or not? If you do, then you are a far cry from the men about whom Jesus was speaking in Matthew 12, men who even confronted with proof of the Spirit refused to believe.

3. What you need is to believe in the promises of the Bible about salvation through faith. Jesus said, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life" (John 3:36). Of course, you now have a great need for sanctification. If you continue on in a wicked life, with no repentance and no good works, without any change, then I will agree that your profession of faith is questionable. So stop letting the devil side-track you with issues like the unforgivable sin, and believe on Jesus. Trust his Word. Start actually repenting and that will answer your concerns about whether or not you are able to repent. If you are hung up on a certain sin, then start praying to God for his power in your life. Walk with him and he will change you. But no longer allow the devil to hang you up on this matter. Say to him what Martin Luther said when the devil came to him in a vision accusing him of being beyond salvation because of his sins. Luther shot back with 1 John 1:7 -- "The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin." Note the "all". So trust in the blood of Jesus and you can know that each and every sin of yours is cleansed.

this i found online... and i agree with it.....



pj

All you are doing is laying a religious guilt trip on this person. If a person has a mental disorder their thoughts are disordered. God understands this even if those of us who are disordered don't. God knows what is in our heart. This person has a good heart and a good spirit and God will react to that while she is still sick. He will react in a kind and loving way. He won't condemn. This is not religious disease. You aught to be ashamed of yourself for laying religious condemnation on this person.

 

[keryakos]

All you are doing is laying a religious guilt trip on this person. If a person has a mental disorder their thoughts are disordered. God understands this even if those of us who are disordered don't. God knows what is in our heart. This person has a good heart and a good spirit and God will react to that while she is still sick. He will react in a kind and loving way. He won't condemn. This is not religious disease. You aught to be ashamed of yourself for laying religious condemnation on this person.

Wait just a minute you dont know what you are talking about you are taking pj's post out of context .Pj is not at all saying that God will condemn anyone due to illness .and she was not saying that this is a religious disease nor laying any guilt trip on anyone ..i advise to go back and read through this thread before jumping to conclusions ..and do not attack her again ..

 

[seajoy]

.

 

[pjspara]

thankyou keryakos...........wow...... can i just say that i DO have ocd and i DO take meds i DO see a counselor for it...so I DO believe that i GET IT AND dont believe GOD is going to judge her OR me for our illness.....
THAT being said i know that while I was undergoing all of this, i found it comforting to KNOW that others (like ministers) CONFIRMED that i hadnt committed the unpardonable sin which is what i posted did you bother to read what she wrote????????? sometimes we with ocd need reassurance of things and if you can provide biblical truths to back up that you HAVE NOT done anything wrong and the GOD DOES NOT think you have commited the unpardonable sin, then it is beneficial,,, and i have talked with her privately so i would appreciate you not attacking me......
yes , HE does know MY heart and MY previous problems and my OCD VERY well, and KNOWS my desire to help people....
you obviously havent been involved in our conversations and have NO idea what my thoughts or feelings toward anyone on here is..... some need only meds, some need BOTH meds, counseling and biblical reasssurances that they are NOT outside of GODS mercy.... if you would have taken the time to read everything ive ever written and to WHO ive wriiten it AND WHY, you would understand.... i HAVE FOUGHT OCD for a very long time and understand it VERy WELLLLLL
you took everything i was saying backwards becausee all i did was show her that she hasnt done anything wrong and GOD adores her..........


so there is a large part of me that wants to say shame on you..... but you know... we alll have our issues so i will leave it at that, and pray that you (if you have ocd) would understand that it affects people differently and there isnt one fix all for everyone..... and i try to approach each one individually that i talk to, because what works for one doesnt necessarily work for another i Never never said GOD would condemn her quite the opposite.....

and seajoy, while i totally appreciate that you have been healed by meds and erp, it is not for everyone.... mes and counseling have helped me, but only with an understanding biblically that i wasnt condemned which is ALLLLLLL ive been trying to say and help with NONE OF US ON HERE ARE CONDEMNED OR DOOMED and it doesnt help to keep telling people to go get help when
a... they havent and may never
b... they need comfort and reeassurance backed up biblically to help

and we continually hope they will get help, but if they dont im just supposed to not answer anything?????? thats crazy.....

pj

ps.... to keryakos, jayangel, kaykay, annrobert, caty, robertz, and kicker, i LOVE you guys and will be praying but apparently, we need to continue privately only..... love you......

 

[keryakos]

Seajoy see what i wrote above to the other guy ..

 

[seajoy]

I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to PJ. In my haste, I quoted a poster who had really been slamming PJ. I noticed very quickly that I was wrong to do this (as I had not read PJ's post) and when I went back to delete my post, I was logged off CF, and unable to log back on. I was sure I had been banned from CF....especially after the 2 pm's I got from another member here in the OCD forum.

This has taught me a valuable lesson.....to really watch who I'm quoting, and why.

PJ, I hope you can fogive me for what I did. I will delete my earlier post.

I'll be taking a break from the OCD forum for a while. In the reponse I got in the PM's, I can see that I'm not so well-liked around here, as many things were said to me about my character. I'll leave you folks alone....and maybe come back at a later time.

I pray God's peace and blessings to everyone here.

 

[pjspara]

seajoy..... of course i forgive you, and i hope you forgive me if i sounded too harsh with you.....

we are supposed to be on here to lift each other up and i think we are all trying to do that but sometimes it comes out wrong....
each of us is fighting our own battle and need help in diff ways.... the people i respond to are usually people i feel need the same kind of help I needed, which was pretty specific with things pertaining to scriptures that scared me, so all i was trying to do is point those out, so we focus on the rebuttal of those and or explanations of them so they are no longer scary..... or at times with even WHAT i believed...
so, i only reply to those i think are or were somewhat like me..... like keryakos, jayangel, kicker, kaykay, robert, annrobert, caty. etc..... i cant tell you how many times things that they have said have comforted me about things when i needed it most.(thanks guys)




i
... and thats all i meant to do, i promise....
we are all GODS children and we will disagree, i was just hurt , and so i lashed out.. and im sorry....

pj

 

[seajoy]

... and thats all i meant to do, i promise....
we are all GODS children and we will disagree, i was just hurt , and so i lashed out.. and im sorry....

pj

No prob

 

[RachelZ]

Hey all...am a bit confused - so what's new lol...but seriously I've just been reading this thread cos I haven't been around much for a while and I don't see that PJ posted anything wrong? It seemed that she wrote a compassionate response not a religous guilt trip one. I agree that one size doesn't fit all when it comes to treatment so different angles on OCD are good. Those different angles include Seajoy's valuable and faithful testimonial of how ERP has helped her and her deep commitment to encourage others to get help for their anxiety disorder rather than try and fix issues clouded by a chemically mixed up brain. It would be a deep shame for you to go away from here Seajoy...what you do here is valuable and how you do it shows you to be a compsassionate person. Sometimes it's easy to have a go at someone for faithfully bringing us back to what is the root problem in so many cases...ie an anxiety disorder called OCD. I know I struggle so much with believing that my concerns are to do with OCD and when people here say what I'm saying sounds like OCD I find that very helpful! Sometimes it has seemed like people are getting cross when others say the OCD needs treating but surely we all must feel at least a bit like our problem may be either caused or complicated by OCD or we wouldn't be posting here. We need people who will give us scripture like JayAngel, we need people who know about meds and treatments like Seajoy does, and others like her who are so much better thanks to treating the anxiety like Mitzi and Sad, we need empathy, wisdom and down to earthness in a Godly way from people like KayKay and we need all the other unique qualities people on here have and we need people who can say they understand even if they don't have a solution. I've mentioned a few names as examples; it's not meant to be an attempt to suck up to people but to show how we encourage one another with our different approaches and to hopefully encourage people that they are valued and needed. I might be way of track here and I'm sorry if I'm wrong but what with one thing and another here recently I wondered if maybe we could pray that God blesses this forum and strengthens our connections with each other...it would be sad if misunderstandings or differing viewpoints caused some to leave or not post much. Hope I haven't said anything out of turn...I just feel sad for anyone who feels got at or critisised here when mostly we are trying to support and help each other and find that same support and help ourselves. Clambering off my soapbox now...take care and please stay with us Seajoy...Rachel

 

[keryakos]

I agree