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The Liturgist

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This development makes me extremely sad:

CANADA: New gender blessings for trial use | VirtueOnline – The Voice for Global Orthodox Anglicanism

As I see it, not only is this horrible liturgical theology, but also horrible moral theology, and represents a spectacular failure on the part of the Church to resist worldly pressure. Additionally, the canons of the Early Church declare that voluntary castration is self-murder (actually Canon I of the Council of Nicaea, so this is actually a matter as important as Nicene theology). Insofar as any of this activity would destroy reproductive ability, it compromises the compliance of the ACC with the Council of Nicaea and since the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed are integral to all churches in the Anglican communion, I really feel its time that Lambeth Power have the courage to take decisive action and require compliance by all provinces with the opinion of the majority of Anglican churches worldwide, weighted by average provincial Sunday attendance, to remain in the Anglican communion. Otherwise, provinces can leave and join the Union of Utrecht, which the Anglican Communion needs to distance itself from (and just leave the Porvoo Communion) expeditiously.

We need to see some increased activity on the part of the ACNA and Continuing Anglicans in Canada.

The action I propose may be unpopular, but only by stopping these degradations in moral theology which are contrary to scripture, contrary to tradition and in my opinion, unreasonable, and therefore theologically defective by Anglican standards, can the tragic exodus of parishioners be halted.

The worst part isn’t parishioners winding up in non-denominational megachurches and other denominations whose views are contrary to Anglicanism, but rather, having been content in the Anglican Church, find themselves spiritually neglected, and end up among the growing number of unchurched Christians.
 

pdudgeon

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I don't know the solution to your problem, but when the ruling powers of my belief started to wander in their theology, and sought to merge with other beliefs, they went one way and I went another.
While they wandered theologically,
I put it my " timemobile" into reverse, and went backwards far enough in theological time, to the Catholic Church where I found the solid foundation that I had been looking for.
 
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PloverWing

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On the Canadian liturgy itself: Some of the prose is a little awkward to my ears, so I hope they refine it a bit before it becomes official, but I like the overall idea of it.

On the canons of Nicaea: I don't agree that every canon carries the same weight as the creed itself, and I don't agree that we are prevented from ever changing any of it. I see, for example, that in canon 20, we are supposed to stand rather than kneel in prayer during the entire season of Pentecost. My experience in the Episcopal Church is that we (mostly) stand during the Easter season, but return to kneeling during Pentecost. Whichever practice is followed, I can't see that it carries the same weight as affirming that the Son is "of one being with the Father". To take another example, canon 6 says that the bishop of Alexandria has jurisdiction over Libya. That's fine, but if the episcopal structure in that region were reorganized so that Libya was more independent of Egypt, I could see that as a reasonable modification as populations grow and change. Again, not the same weight as affirming the nature of the Son.

So, canon I. "If anyone in sickness has undergone surgery at the hands of physicians or has been castrated by barbarians, let him remain among the clergy. But if anyone in good health has castrated himself, if he is enrolled among the clergy he should be suspended, and in future no such man should be promoted." Gender transition surgery is normally performed by physicians. Vasectomies might be questionable under this canon. People transitioning from female to male aren't "castrated", per se. For this and other reasons, I don't know that this canon applies to us in the way you assert.

(Source for Nicene canons: First Council of Nicaea – 325 AD - Papal Encyclicals)

Finally, I am not as eager to split the Anglican Communion as you are. Yes, we could divide so that the US, Canada, Brazil, and Scotland are in one diminished Communion, the churches in Africa are in another diminished Communion, and everyone else has to pick a side. There are rumblings in that direction, and maybe that's where this all ends. But I think that divorce would impoverish us all.
 
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The Liturgist

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I don't know the solution to your problem, but when the ruling powers of my belief started to wander in their theology, and sought to merge with other beliefs, they went one way and I went another.
While they wandered theologically,
I put it my " timemobile" into reverse, and went backwards far enough in theological time, to the Catholic Church where I found the solid foundation that I had been looking for.

I am neither Canadian nor Anglican, so this does not directly affect me. However, I believe it is of extreme importance to Christianity in the English speaking world that the spiritual and congregation health of the Anglican Communion be maintained, and ideally, doctrinal errors corrected so that ecumenical talks with the Orthodox and Catholics could resume in earnest.

Anglicanism is the third largest denomination and the largest Protestant denomination worldwide; every major North American city has at least two majestic cathedrals, one of which is usually Roman Catholic and the other of which is Anglican.* Anglicanism also historically had the best attendance of the Divine Office of any Western Church, and this is still arguably the case even though attendance has plunged from what it once was, whereas the Roman Rite still struggles, despite the good reforms of St. Pius X and the bad reforms post Vatican II to get people to go to Vespers, Matins and other services of the Liturgy of the Hours, with the prevailing attitude among priests, amazingly, still being one of the Divine Office as a private devotion.

Given the high profile of the mainline Anglican and Episcopalian denominations in Canada and the US, it is a major problem to the extent their teaching departs from Christian moral values.

*If you will forgive a segue into liturgical architecture, a major exception to the rule of one grand Catholic and one splendid Anglican cathedral is Los Angeles, where both the Anglican and Roman Catholic Cathedrals I think are unimpressive, indeed I find the 2001 Roman Catholic Cathedral ugly and depressing, but greater Los Angeles has a number of beautiful Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox cathedrals, and the newest cathedral is the beautiful, traditional St. Mary’s Cathedral of the Assyrian Church of the East. My favorite is of course the stunning St. Sophia Greek Orthodox Cathedral, and I also love St. Nicholas Antiochian Cathedral and in Burbank, technically a different city but immediately adjacent to major LA districts like North Hollywood and Van Nuys, St. Leon’s Armenian Cathedral is gorgeous, and there is another Armenian cathedral belonging to the other Armenian Orthodox jurisdiction**. The interior of St. Mark’s Coptic Orthodox Cathedral is gorgeous, although the real architectural gem is the church of St. Moses the Black at St. Anthony’s Coptic Orthodox Monastery out in the high Mojave desert on the 15 towards Las Vegas (where the Anglican cathedral is ok, historic, not bad looking, but the Roman Catholic cathedral is ugly; the best looking churches are a historic Roman Catholic church in downtown, and some of the Orthodox churches).

**There are two in the US, one under the Catholicos of Holy Etchmiadzin in Armenia proper, and one under the Catholicos of the Great House of Cilicia now headquartered in Lebanon; these date back to the period in the late Byzantine Empire when there were briefly two Armenian kingdoms, one occupying an area of the Levant and the other consisting of historic Armenia; both were conquered by the Turks, but later Armenia became an independent republic, only to be annexed by the Soviets, which led to many Americans mistrusting Holy Etchmiadzin, and there was a schism between those churches under Holy Etchmiadzin and those under the Great House of Cilicia, which was fiercely anti-communist; this was much like the split between the neutral Orthodox Church of America and the Moscow Patriarchate and the fiercely anti communist Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, which was only resolved in 2007; the Armenian schism was resolved earlier when Catholicos Vartan of the Great House of Cilicia then became Catholicos of Holy Etchmiadzin in Armenia.
 
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The Liturgist

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On the Canadian liturgy itself: Some of the prose is a little awkward to my ears, so I hope they refine it a bit before it becomes official, but I like the overall idea of it.

As far as the Canadian liturgy is concerned, they have a beautiful Book of Common Prayer from 1962, but nearly all parishes use the Alternative Service Book, not to be confused with the C of E’s predecessor to Common Worship. Common Worship is good, like a larger version of the 1979 BCP, which features much of the good material from the Deposited Book of 1928 in addition to contemporary language services; fortunately Parliament no longer has direct control over C of E worship, because the alliance of low churchmen and non-Anglicans to vote against the majority of Anglican MPs to block the 1928 BCP from being adopted was a scandal. I greatly dislike the 1662 BCP compared to the 1549 and 1928 Deposited versions, and the 1892, 1928 and 1979 American editions, and the 1929 Scottish, 1938 Melanesian and 1962 Canadian versions.

On the canons of Nicaea: I don't agree that every canon carries the same weight as the creed itself, and I don't agree that we are prevented from ever changing any of it. I see, for example, that in canon 20, we are supposed to stand rather than kneel in prayer during the entire season of Pentecost. My experience in the Episcopal Church is that we (mostly) stand during the Easter season, but return to kneeling during Pentecost. Whichever practice is followed, I can't see that it carries the same weight as affirming that the Son is "of one being with the Father". To take another example, canon 6 says that the bishop of Alexandria has jurisdiction over Libya. That's fine, but if the episcopal structure in that region were reorganized so that Libya was more independent of Egypt, I could see that as a reasonable modification as populations grow and change. Again, not the same weight as affirming the nature of the Son.

So just as a point of information, what you are doing in the Episcopal Church is fully compliant with Canon XX of Nicaea.

The term Pentecost in Patristic and Orthodox sources includes what we would call Eastertide and Ascensiontide (hence the Eastern Orthodox hymnal for the period from Pascha through All Saints Day, the Sunday after Pentecost, being called the Pentecostarion and not the Paschalion, a term used to refer to books, such as one I have of Coptic provenance, that cover Holy Week and Easter inclusive.

To explain this nomenclature, wherein Pentecost refers to the period from Pascha through Whitsunday*, is because Pentecost was traditionally in Judaism a feast of multiple weeks, so it was actually on the last day or Pentecost, called Shavuot in Hebrew, that the Holy Spirit descended. Indeed, Whitsunday or Pentecost Sunday in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches features a penitential liturgy, often served right after the Divine Liturgy, that the Eastern Orthodox call “Kneeling Vespers,” and which the Syriac Orthodox refer to using a different name, because their service features the three kneeling prayers but is not Vespers (Ramsho in West Syriac). I prefer the Syriac service as it is shorter and also features the delightful use of a thoroughly soaked plant, I am not sure what, I don’t think its Hyssop, as nice as that would be, due to the scarcity thereof, at least in North America; the leaves of this plant are thoroughly saturated with consecrated Holy Water and then the priest gleefully splashes the laity between each of the three kneeling prayers, and also in the Middle East Syriac Orthodox commemorate the holiday by throwing bottles of water on each other.

What is commonly called the liturgical season of Pentecost in the West would be more correctly called Post-Pentecost or Whitsuntide, which is an existing term. I myself strongly support the division of Ordinary Time into at least three liturgical seasons, Whitsuntide, Kingdomtide, which in the Methodist Episcopal Church and certain other churches was the second half of the period, named as such to commemorate the universal adoption of the last Sunday before Advent in the Western churches as the Sunday of Christ the King, and Epiphany. I also wish Western churches would observe the Apostles Fast and the Fast of the Blessed Virgin Mary before the Feast of St. Peter and Paul, and the Marian feast on August the 15th, which is the Dormition in Eastern Orthodoxy and the Assumption in Oriental Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, but in the Assyrian church is the Commemoration of the Theotokos.

So, canon I. "If anyone in sickness has undergone surgery at the hands of physicians or has been castrated by barbarians, let him remain among the clergy. But if anyone in good health has castrated himself, if he is enrolled among the clergy he should be suspended, and in future no such man should be promoted." Gender transition surgery is normally performed by physicians. Vasectomies might be questionable under this canon. People transitioning from female to male aren't "castrated", per se. For this and other reasons, I don't know that this canon applies to us in the way you assert.

So, Canon I applies to any means of self-castration. The context of Canon I of Nicaea can be found in Apostolic Canons XXI - XXIII, which categorize castration as self murder, deposing any clergy who are castrated voluntarily by their own hand or by someone else’s, and excommunicating any laity. The reason why clergy are not excommunicated is because the Apostolic Canons, which were upheld in the canons of the Ecumenical Councils, prohibit applying more than one penance for the same sin. Also it should be stressed these canons, in the Eastern Orthodox tradition, can be interpreted with oikonomia (literally, economy, but figuratively, leniency, or akrivia, or strictness, the goal being to do what is best for the laity, also, an excommunication is different from an anathema, which can be lifted only if the person anathematizes repents, whereas excommunication is merely the status of not participating in the Eucharist; indeed one can become inadvertently excommunicate if one becomes sick and out of range of an Orthodox priest; there is no way anyone would be penanced for this, and only churches in the Slavonic tradition require regular confession, so if someone became mentally ill or castrated themselves in a drunken rage, this would be handled differently than the case of someone deliberately castrated themselves via vasectomy or the removal of male genitalia due to dysphoria.

(Source for Nicene canons: First Council of Nicaea – 325 AD - Papal Encyclicals)[/quote]

If I might make a suggestion, the source you want to use for the Canons is the Pedalion, which can be downloaded free of charge from Scribd if you upload a public domain work or something you hold the copyright to: The Rudder (Pedalion) | PDF

The Pedalion is the Eastern Orthodox nomocanon, which is the most comprehensive nomocanon containing the ancient canons of the early church translated into English (to my knowledge, the Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian nomocanons were never translated, and the Roman Catholic Church decided it could rewrite the early canons it had agreed to previously, presumably because canons such as Canon VI of Nicaea contradict Papal supremacy; some Orthodox erroneously criticize the Catholics for not following the Canons of the Council of Truro, also known as the Quinisext Council, but the fact was that was a council specific to the Eastern churches intended to update the canon law, an opportunity otherwise missed at the Fifth and Sixth Ecumenical Councils, and is specific to the liturgical praxis of Eastern Orthodoxy; the Roman church did not participate in it. That being said, some canons thereof are of broad applicability, for example, the canons prohibiting priests from acting as financial planners or estate managers for their congregants strike me as falling into the category of “duh.”

Now, some Greek Orthodox bishops from the Ecumenical Patriarch have suggested laity should not read this book or the Philokalia. I could not disagree more, and no one from ROCOR or the other Greek Orthodox churches have suggested this, and indeed, why Ecumenical Patriarchate clergy are basically contradicting their foremost spokesman, Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, and discouraging people from buying a book he translated with Mother Mary, a great Orthodox nun, baffles me. I suppose they are afraid that newly baptized and catechumens might not understand the concept that the canons are subject to oikonomia, or leniency, as much as deemed spiritually beneficial, and are seldom enforced with exactness, or akrivia, and some of them are, if read in an overly literal way, obsolete or inapplicable, for example, the canons against attending the theatre were due to the lewd nature of theatrical performances in that era, likewise the canon against clergy dining or staying in taverns was due to lewd entertainment and songs and drunkeness and prostitution which occurred therein; these days, the correct scope of these canons would be against clergy entering strip clubs or brothels or attending indecent entertainments.

The idea that laity should not read the Pedalion however is absurd; St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite composed the work so the laity could easily learn the canons, which is of great benefit to the laity in terms of knowing what the canon law is, for example, concerning disqualifications from Holy Orders, like divorce and murder, and concerning inheritance, marriage and divorce procedures, and also a great resource of moral theology, since the canons tell us what the early church found morally objectionable. I believe the War on St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite’s Pedalion, and the Philokalia he compiled with St. Macarius of Corinth, is unjustified, since the pastoral concerns of misinterpretation can easily be corrected by making sure laity understand how canons are used in the Orthodox church, as guidelines for the medical treatment of sin rather than as a legalistic framework for the punishment of crimes aganst God understood forensically, or for that matter as a legalistic framework relevant only to the internal operation of the Church, which is of my many criticisms of Scholastic moral theology and the current Roman Catholic Code of Canon Law and Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches; indeed the fact that the Roman church requires Canon Lawyers, some of whom are Juris Doctors who could acquire or have acquired a license to practice secular law, makes me cringe.

It is also worth noting that clergy of the same Greek Orthodox Archdiocese are known for discouraging the laity from attending their own monasteries established by St. Ephrem of Arizona, memory eternal, monasteries which are part of the same Greek Orthodox archdiocese under the same ecumenical Patriarchate. Why I cannot imagine, because at those monasteries, people, including me, have experienced beautiful, traditional worship and traditional theology in an Athonite environment, albeit observing the New Calendar and the same Typikon as the parishes, rather than the Julian Calendar and the traditional Sabaite-Studite Typikon which are used in the Athonite monasteries and the Orthodox Churches of Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Jerusalem, Latvia, Lithuania, Montenegro, Russia, Serbia, Sinai and Ukraine, as well as the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia and some parishes of the Orthodox Church in America and the Polish Orthodox Church. I have heard it alleged that priests find it annoying when the laity return from Elder Ephrem’s monasteries, and having seen what is both possible and conducive to church growth, try to get their parish to do the same.

Finally, I am not as eager to split the Anglican Communion as you are. Yes, we could divide so that the US, Canada, Brazil, and Scotland are in one diminished Communion, the churches in Africa are in another diminished Communion, and everyone else has to pick a side. There are rumblings in that direction, and maybe that's where this all ends. But I think that divorce would impoverish us all.

The Global South consists of more than just Africa; most South American provinces and Sydney are a part of it, and South Africa is not a part of it, but I am not eager to divide the Anglican communion. Rather, I think Lambeth Palace needs to apply pressure to churches like Canada and Scotland to comply with the morality of the persecuted Anglicans of Africa and the Middle East, and the impoverished Anglicans of the Global South, and do things differently, so as to arrest the rapid decline of these denominations. Also, Archbishop Rowan Williams did take limited action against the Episcopal Church when it greatly violated the trust of the Anglican Communion by unilaterally ordaining Gene Robinson.

The Episcopal Church I feel is improving, having elected Michael Curry, a more traditional replacement for the presiding bishop previously in office, who spent 45 million on an ill-fated effort to keep traditionalist dioceses from leaving, which is now collapsing since Fort Worth managed to successfully escape with their real estate, and encouraged bishops like the disgraced former Bishop Bruno, who I would note would have been, strictly speaking, disqualified under ancient canon law from serving in Holy Orders without oikonomia being granted because he killed someone while in the LAPD, and became ordained as part of a major moral reform, which would have been good, except he lapsed into questionable conduct.

I would note he might well have gotten oikonomia to be ordained in the Orthodox Church if his shooting was to protect life and was completely justified, considering that St. Moses the Black, before his baptism, was a highwayman and murderer; after his baptism, he renounced violence, founded a monastery, was ordained as a priest, and he and his fellow monks were martyred.

What makes the actions of your previous presiding bishop so problematic, however, is the staggering amount of money she spent, and bishops under her spent, to forcibly deprive traditionalists leaving of their real estate; at the same time, the PCUSA and ELCA, the latter of Episcopal polity, implemented an enlightened policy of Gracious Dismissal, which also saved them a fortune in legal fees. Imagine what that $45 million could do for the Episcopal Church and the communities of vulnerable people it serves. Actually it could be $50 million now, since regrettably, Bishop Curry hasn’t stopped all of the appeals, so the murder is still running. Letting dioceses and individual parishes leave for ACNA with their real estate, while seeking to persuade them to stay by addressing their concerns would be so much better.

So basically, I misspoke in terms of calling for Canada to be ejected from the Anglican communion. What I meant to convey was that Canada needs to be warned that if the Global South leaves, the responsibility will be theirs, and furthermore, the Church of England should I think enter into direct communion with ACNA, and the Continuing Anglican Churches, as a means of pressuring Canada and the Episcopal Church USA to improve. And the it should leave the Poorvoo Communion. And if the Episcopal Church of Scotland does not improve, logically, the Church of England should open parishes there, using the 1929 Scottish BCP.

Of course, there is a gap between what the Church of England should do and what it will actually do, due to government interference. Given that the Church of Scotland now has become a state church in a mainly symbolic way, I think it would be of extreme spiritual benefit for the Church of England to push for a similar change; just as the Church is now no longer subject to Parliamentary oversight of its liturgics, it would be a great breakthrough if the appointment of bishops was no longer at the recommendation of the Prime Minister. This might not mean the end of the Lords Spiritual, since the Chief Rabbi is generally appointed to the Lords, for example, Jonathan Sachs.

*The Pentecostarion stretches beyond the end of Pentecost itself to include All Saints Day, which in the Byzantine Rite is celebrated on the same day as Trinity Sunday in the West (largely because Whitsunday itself is the among other things the main Feast of the Holy Trinity in the East, so any churches named for the Holy Trinity have their annual feast on Pentecost), for purposes of convenience, because we are discussing a movable feast tied to the date of Easter. So just as the Triodion starts on The Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee, or Septuagesima, and stretches from then through the Vesperal Divine Liturgy on Holy Saturday, the Pentecostarion stretches from Pascha through Ascension and Whitsunday until the end of the movable feasts tied to the date of Pascha.
 
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The Liturgist

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I don't know the solution to your problem, but when the ruling powers of my belief started to wander in their theology, and sought to merge with other beliefs, they went one way and I went another.
While they wandered theologically,
I put it my " timemobile" into reverse, and went backwards far enough in theological time, to the Catholic Church where I found the solid foundation that I had been looking for.

By the way, were I a Canadian Anglican, I would be considering any ACNA or Continuing parishes, as well as the Lutheran Church of Canada and the Orthodox Church; ROCOR and Antioch have Western Rite vicariates whose membership is mostly former Anglicans. Also the SSPX and the Sui Juris Eastern Catholic Churches and the Anglican Ordinariates would be good options.

The main problem for me with joining the Catholic Church right now is the problems Pope Francis is creating for Traditional Latin Mass communities with Traditiones Custodes, as well as his earlier outrages like Amoris Laetitia and especially the Amazonian Synod. I don’t understand why Pope Benedict XVI resigned and why he was replaced by someone who opposes all the good work he did; I don’t like it, it feels wrong, like what happened to Pope John Paul I. Fortunately St. John Paul II was excellent, and there is some reason to believe John Paul I would have been more radical than Pope Paul VI from a traditionalist perspective, but, that notwithstanding, Pope John Paul I did die very mysteriously, and I really hope he was not the victim of murder, as some have suggested. Which makes me wonder why the best Pope from a liturgical perspective since St. Pius X resigned.

If Pope Francis retires, and a conservative Pope is elected by the Conclave who reverses all of his ill-advised decisions, and implements new measures to prevent their return in the future, and also deposes all clergy of questionable commitment to Roman Catholic holy tradition and strictly enforces the liturgical music requirements imposed by St. Pius X in the Motu Proprio Tra la solicitudina, requiring parishes to immediately dispose of any pianos, syntnesizers, guitars, electric guitars and drum kits, and implements a commission to redo the Ordinary Form of the Roman Mass in a manner that actually complies with the specifications provided at Vatican II, and likewise a restoration of the Maronite and Ambrosian Rites is initiated, I would join tomorrow, and not just join, but join a religious order.
 
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Paidiske

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The way I see it, the reality is that our parishes have faithful Christians in them, who either undergo gender transition (socially and/or medically) while being members, or who become members having undergone such a transition at some time since their baptism. It is clear to me, in my pastoral care of these members, that the presence of God in their lives, and the care of their church community, are deeply important realities, even as they deal with deeply distressing internal issues and often rejection, stigmatisation, shaming and so on in their wider relationships.

Given all of that, I am not opposed to making some provision for the liturgical expression of the care of God, and of the community, for that person. I have not seen the Canadian rites and am not sure that my own views about what such rites should look like are well formed. But I am sure that complete failure to acknowledge massive changes in the life of a person is probably not the best we can possibly do, in terms of pastoral care for them, or in terms of supporting and nurturing their faith.
 
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PloverWing

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Most of post #5 is not displaying on the CF page. I see only the part that talks about Pentecost. I would not have known most of the text was there if I hadn't clicked "reply", which (oddly) quoted the whole post, including the invisible parts. I think your HTML tags are off in some way.

The term Pentecost in Patristic and Orthodox sources includes what we would call Eastertide and Ascensiontide

The terminology is unexpected to me, but it makes the canon make more sense.

The Global South consists of more than just Africa; most South American provinces and Sydney are a part of it, and South Africa is not a part of it, but I am not eager to divide the Anglican communion. Rather, I think Lambeth Palace needs to apply pressure to churches like Canada and Scotland to comply with the morality of the persecuted Anglicans of Africa and the Middle East, and the impoverished Anglicans of the Global South, and do things differently, so as to arrest the rapid decline of these denominations.

Yes, the Global South consists of more than just Africa. I mentioned Africa because the African churches (with the exception of South Africa) have been strongly opposed to LGBT inclusion, and their leadership is almost unanimous in that view. By contrast, I see more differences of opinion in Latin America, Australia, New Zealand, and the Pacific Islands -- sometimes disagreements within national churches, sometimes disagreements between them.

There's no point in Lambeth "applying pressure to comply". You have to understand that this is a matter of conscience for many of us. Paidiske has spoken eloquently about this in her post above.
 
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The Liturgist

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The way I see it, the reality is that our parishes have faithful Christians in them, who either undergo gender transition (socially and/or medically) while being members, or who become members having undergone such a transition at some time since their baptism. It is clear to me, in my pastoral care of these members, that the presence of God in their lives, and the care of their church community, are deeply important realities, even as they deal with deeply distressing internal issues and often rejection, stigmatisation, shaming and so on in their wider relationships.

Given all of that, I am not opposed to making some provision for the liturgical expression of the care of God, and of the community, for that person. I have not seen the Canadian rites and am not sure that my own views about what such rites should look like are well formed. But I am sure that complete failure to acknowledge massive changes in the life of a person is probably not the best we can possibly do, in terms of pastoral care for them, or in terms of supporting and nurturing their faith.

The problem is there is no morally acceptable way to justify what they are doing based on the Gospel, particularly since they cannot actually change gender; the surgeries performed on them merely alter their physical characteristics and hormone levels to simulate the other gender. But even if we could magically transform someone from a biological male to a biological female, I don’t see that this could be justified, particularly from the perspective of limited medical resources and human sexual morality.

For the record, I am adamantly opposed to all surgery of a purely cosmetic nature, as opposed to functional plastic surgery, as a waste of resources which could be used to help the poor. Rhinoplasty, breast enlargement, facelifts and so on are horrifying. Removing tumors and treating burns, scars and dermatological diseases should be the absolute priority of dermatologists and plastic surgeons Medical resources are limited and doctors are expensive, and tragically, plastic surgery and dermatology tends to be unavailable for the poorest in society, who are often forced to live with horrifying disfigurements because of the lack of unmercenary dermatologists. If I had a career to do over, I would study dermatology and plastic surgery, to help the poor, and I recently decided to prioritize charitable donations in this area.

But even if we had unlimited medical resources, this would still be unacceptable, as it constitutes a departure from the clear positions of the early church, which I can prove from Patristic writings, on human sexual morality. And I have made it clear in my opposition to the sadistic practice of conversion therapy, which I am not calling for, I cannot condone any departure from traditional Christian sexual ethics. Indeed, I think Pope John Paul II did a splendid job summarizing these views in Dignitatis Humanae, but we can go back to the fourth century and get as good a summary from St. Gregory of Nyssa, if anyone were to doubt the commitment of the Christian church to Holy Matrimony and Holy Celibacy.

Emotional support for people suffering from gender dysphoria should be provided in my opinion by priests, but because of the problems with gender reassignment and Christian sexual ethics, any kind of liturgical affirmation is beyond the pale.

Aside from moral theology, there is also an issue of sacramental theology which could not be avoided: the Nicene Creed mandates one baptism for the remission of sins. There is no possible way for the church to officially rename someone Christened with a specific name and a specific saint to another name and another saint without rebaptizing them or ordaining them, and ordaining someone who does this is a violation of the canons of the Council of Nicaea. Someone identifying as a different gender would therefore have to retain their original patron saint and use, in dealing with the church, at most, a feminized version of the name of their baptism, or else the church would violate the Nicene Creed in an attempt to avoid “dead-naming” the person.

However, I personally cannot endorse any of this; while I will not endorse the cruel practice of conversion therapy for anyone, I also am forced to regard anyone who does not practice holy celibacy or natural heterosexual marriage as being unrepentant, and all I can do in that case is pray for them. Privately of course, because it is not the function of the Church to inflict humiliations.
 
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The Liturgist

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You have to understand that this is a matter of conscience for many of us.

Conversely, opposition to it is a matter of conscience for most Anglican laity worldwide, and the ACC is one of the fastest-shrinking Anglican jurisdictions. I can’t be expected to muzzle myself while they embark on a disastrous course of action.

We see endless threads in this forum about how bad Catholics or Protestants are which I am profoundly tired of, but in this case, I see the ACC as engaging in conduct which is contrary to the moral theology and sacramental theology of the early Church and of all Anglicans up to the early 20th century, and most Anglicans worldwide even at present. And I am not criticizing the ACC for the purpose of virtue signaling to conservative members of the forum, but rather, because I want people to pray that wisdom prevails and the Anglican Communion stops engaging in unwarranted actions which have already alienated an unbelievably large number of Episcopalians and Canadian Anglicans.

For reasons I made clear earlier, since the Anglican Communion is the third largest denomination, and the largest Protestant denomination worldwide, and the most accessible for many people, what it does directly impacts me whether I am actively a member, as I have been in the past and could be in the future depending on how things work out, or not. I don’t want to see empty Anglican churches or worse, the tragedy recently in one of the northern US states, where the Episcopal Cathedral was converted to a megachurch, which one can rest assured will have praise and worship music instead of traditional hymns, and based on the specific experiences associated with megachurches I see reported on Wartburg Watch, its members are at increased risk for abusive or indifferent pastoral care by celebrity pastors. Had the Episcopal Church pursued a course of action more in line with that of the ACNA, it seems probable that cathedral would still be operational and in the hands of Episcopal clergy who aren’t going to abuse people.
 
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Paidiske

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The problem is there is no morally acceptable way to justify what they are doing based on the Gospel, particularly since they cannot actually change gender; the surgeries performed on them merely alter their physical characteristics and hormone levels to simulate the other gender.

Why do you assume that surgery or other medical intervention is always involved?

But even if we could magically transform someone from a biological male to a biological female, I don’t see that this could be justified, particularly from the perspective of limited medical resources and human sexual morality.

From my point of view, this is not the question. The issue is not "Can I justify what this person is doing (or has done)?" The issue is, How can I best respond to the need for care and nurture that this person has? How can I help this person to draw closer to God in love and trust? How can I help this person develop and draw out their own God-given capacity for love, joy and peace?

There is no possible way for the church to officially rename someone Christened with a specific name and a specific saint to another name and another saint without rebaptizing them or ordaining them, and ordaining someone who does this is a violation of the canons of the Council of Nicaea. Someone identifying as a different gender would therefore have to retain their original patron saint and use, in dealing with the church, at most, a feminized version of the name of their baptism, or else the church would violate the Nicene Creed in an attempt to avoid “dead-naming” the person.

This does not seem correct to me. I am aware of other situations in which the church has given or affirmed the use of new names. I also cannot see any reason why the giving, or using, of a new name is not possible in any particular circumstance. As for the reference to saints, for most of us, that is entirely irrelevant. I have been baptised, confirmed, and ordained (as a deacon and a priest), and at no point was a specific saint invoked in any of those rites.

However, I personally cannot endorse any of this; while I will not endorse the cruel practice of conversion therapy for anyone, I also am forced to regard anyone who does not practice holy celibacy or natural heterosexual marriage as being unrepentant, and all I can do in that case is pray for them.

Why are you assuming that these people are sexually active?

I think, for example, of someone in my pastoral care. She is of more mature age and was diagnosed with gender dysphoria relatively late in life, although for her that diagnosis has helped her make sense of a lifetime of distress. She is single and not sexually active. She has not undergone, and has no intention to seek, any medical transition. However, she manages her dysphoria, by means of what I would describe as a partial social transition. That is, she has adopted a unisex first name in place of her original given name, and she is called by that name by most people, and she dresses fairly androgynously, and basically is able to occupy a social space where her symptoms are more manageable for her by not being particularly expressly feminine. She is also very clear about the importance of her faith, her relationship with God, and her absolute trust in God for salvation and for hope and joy in everyday life.

If this person were to seek to, say, renew her baptismal vows using the name she has adopted, I would have no very compelling reason to refuse to allow that.
 
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The Liturgist

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Why do you assume that surgery or other medical intervention is always involved?

I don’t. Where it is involved, the degree to which there is hamartia requiring a loving response from the Church is increased.

From my point of view, this is not the question. The issue is not "Can I justify what this person is doing (or has done)?" The issue is, How can I best respond to the need for care and nurture that this person has? How can I help this person to draw closer to God in love and trust? How can I help this person develop and draw out their own God-given capacity for love, joy and peace?

I believe the way to help them is to provide loving pastoral care with the privacy and protections afforded by the Seal of Confessional, at least for those who haven’t done anything drastic. Of course, the Western Church needs to promote the Eastern Christian piety where blessings are sought from gerons or gerondas (male or female elders who are not necessarily presbyters or presbyteras but rather are more like godparents, or could be literal godparents in some cases, usually monastics) or confessors, and such persons would be in a position to discourage someone from causing irreparable harm to their reproductive anatomy through reassignment surgery.

By the way, as I have made clear innumerable times, I do not view sins like this in forensic terms, but as a spiritual sickness. Any time anyone has dysphoria, for any reasons, that amounts to a form of despair or misery and this indicates the passions. So nothing we do can be conceived as punishment for trans people for their sins; the hamartia they are experiencing is rather inevitable due to the fall. It becomes the cross they have to bear. Our job is to be like St. Simon of Cyrene and help them bear it, by providing the sacraments and love.

So whereas I feel we are morally obliged to not endorse transsexual behavior, but to promote instead holy matrimony and holy celibacy, we are also obliged to provide everything it is in our power to provide and to do so without accusing such persons of evil or wicked behavior, because that would be wrong. We are talking about people with dysphoria, which is terrible; it can lead to despair, which is a passion, and depression and suicidality, which are mental illnesses. We need to pray with them for their happiness and give them the Eucharist and also provide regular opportunities for them to receive Holy Unction.

One thing the Episcopal Church does in many parishes which is excellent is provide a Healing Service with Holy Unction and Holy Communion, usually on Wednesdays. In the Eastern Orthodox church, this can happen as infrequently as once a year for the entire congregation, but the nature of the service attracts attention and could be embarrassing. Avoiding embarrassment I have been told is extremely important in these cases, hence the benefits of weekly healing services.

We can also if desired refer them to reputable Christian mental health professionals, once who have no association with abusive Conversion Therapy, to provide them with appropriate mental health support.

I feel so sorry for people with gender dysphoria. The Wachowskis, for example. So I pray for them, and if any come to me, I give them the Eucharist.

There are some megachurch pastors who would treat such people as though they were adulterers or child molesters. Because the decline of the traditional liturgical churches is directly correlated with the rise of these abusive megachurches and fundamentalist churches, every thing we do in traditional liturgical churches has to consider the wellbeing of the entire community, and this precludes us from doing certain public things, like celebrating a gender transition or gay marriage, if we want our denomination to survive, because the United Church of Christ and the Uniting Church in Canada have become as liberal as possible, and have contracted to a spectacular extent, while really liberal Christians tend to prefer the UUA (Unitarians). I don’t think a competition with the Unitarians on the basis of modernist theology is winnable; they will always be able to be more open minded than Christians because they are unburdened by the moral principles embedded in our faith.

And we can tell based on demographics that churches which are moderate like the UMC (until recently at least) have contracted more slowly, and churches which are more traditional have stayed the same or even expanded. This also applies to individual parishes and ministries within a denomination: the Traditional Latin Masses I have been to fill up, while this is not the case with the Novus Ordo. People want a Biblical Christianity, and the two ways they will get it are from liturgical churches which have pastors like you, who care about not abusing people and have training, and from the kind of freeform, aliturgical church with a fundamentalist or evangelical theology, and focus on a “worship team” and a having a “cool pastor.” And those churches are where trans people are going to be traumatized.

Why are you assuming that these people are sexually active?

To be clear, I am not; the problems are simply worse when they are.
 
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Paidiske

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Any time anyone has dysphoria, for any reasons, that amounts to a form of despair or misery and this indicates the passions.

I really have to disagree with you here. Psychological distress does not automatically equal spiritual problems. I regard this statement as being as bad as blaming people with physical illnesses for their symptoms.

I do not believe that formal confession is the only valid form of pastoral care for someone with this kind of struggle, and I would think it dangerous to always frame it in terms of sin, rather, than, say, affliction.

I notice you do not respond to my not-hypothetical case of someone in my care. That, in my experience, is far closer to the reality many of these people who have Christian faith live, than some caricature of a sexually promiscuous and medically reckless person.
 
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The Liturgist

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I really have to disagree with you here. Psychological distress does not automatically equal spiritual problems. I regard this statement as being as bad as blaming people with physical illnesses for their symptoms.

On the contrary, I explicitly said its not their fault.

I do not believe that formal confession is the only valid form of pastoral care for someone with this kind of struggle, and I would think it dangerous to always frame it in terms of sin, rather, than, say, affliction.

Nor do I, which is why I stressed the sacraments, the Eucharist, prayer and love, and also, remember, in a Russian Orthodox church setting, most of the times I have gone to confession it hasn’t been because of sin but due to some form of grief. Indeed only on one occasion was it due to a moral failure that I went. On the other occasions, it was to get assistance with spiritual pain, such as bereavement, guilt and irrational horror, for example, the revulsion and terror the sight of a hearse used to cause me. It was of extreme help. Insofar as all of these represent departures from optimal human behavior they constitute sin; we sin with literally every thought, because God desires us to perfect ourselves, something which we begin in this life but obviously cannot complete. But these sins have to be understood as involuntary symptoms of our ancestral, hereditary sin, which corrupts us.

This is also why when I connect people with resources, I don’t call it a penance. In most cases, they haven’t engaged in any kind of intentional transgression, but are merely suffering the effects of the passions, which are almost impossible for someone living in the world to control. I can’t expect laity to have mastery over the passions when most monks do not have that. Its involuntary. Even the term confession is technically inaccurate; it is a Latinization, and The Sacrament of Reconciliation lacks the subtle nuances of the name in Greek. The function of that sacrament is essentially to relieve the pain people are suffering as a result of the passions which in nearly all cases are beyond their control. Only in rare cases does someone have an actual moral transgression to confess.

As an example of what I mean by this I grant St. Francis of Assisi “Saint” as a
due to his commitment to Christian service, but I, like many people exposed to EO and OO theology, also believe he may have been spiritually deluded, in prelest to use the EO term of art. when compared to someone like St. Anthony the Great or Abba Sisoes, because he engaged in over the top public penances and on his death bed was convinced he had confessed every sin, which is impossible, so he was either suffering dementia, or was gravely mistaken to the point of prelest. However insofar as this was beyond his control, we cannot hold him to be culpable of these errors.

I notice you do not respond to my not-hypothetical case of someone in my care. That, in my experience, is far closer to the reality many of these people who have Christian faith live, than some caricature of a sexually promiscuous and medically reckless person.

There was a good reason I had not responded to it yet, and that was because I had not had a chance to do so, because it represents the most important information you provided and requires the most careful study. You can rest assured I would not ignore you on something important like that.

Having had a chance to read it thoroughly, it seems to me that in her situation, the best approach would be to continue doing what you have been doing, while providing as much sacramental support as possible. Because what you have there is obviously working.

However, I would argue it would be a huge mistake to do any kind of public or private liturgy like what the Anglican Church of Canada proposes. The reason for it relates precisely to the fact that your church is providing her correct pastoral care. However, if your hierarchy implements a new liturgy that represents the church formally endorsing and giving its blessing to, gender transitions, you will lose people, perhaps not from your parish, but in the aggregate, it would hurt your province. The reason why this is bad is because if you lose a parish, the chances are, some egregious fundamentalist or evangelical or other restorationist or radical reformation group will likely move in, and the data indicates, in North America at least, that those people are going to abuse her and treat her like a monster.

The ACC therefore, according to my argument, needs to avoid doing things which would accelerate the loss of members and embolden the megachurches with arrogant and abusive celebrity pastors, for everyone’s sake, including that of the trans people themselves.
 
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Paidiske

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On the contrary, I explicitly said its not their fault.

Then it's not a matter for confession. Confession deals with sin, guilt, repentance and absolution; it does not deal with matters for which we are not morally culpable. I note your comments about grief but I would argue that in an Anglican tradition, at least, confession is not the place for processing grief. In fact, I would likely counsel such a person that confession is not appropriate to their needs.

However, I would argue it would be a huge mistake to do any kind of public or private liturgy like what the Anglican Church of Canada proposes.

I am not clear on exactly what the ACC is proposing. I gave an example of something it would be hard to justify refusing, that is, a renewal of baptismal vows using a new name. I am hard-pressed to see why such a thing would be a huge mistake.

However, if your hierarchy implements a new liturgy that represents the church formally endorsing and giving its blessing to, gender transitions, you will lose people, perhaps not from your parish, but in the aggregate, it would hurt your province.

One does not do something simply on the basis of a calculus of how many people one might gain or lose as a result. However, being aware of the situation on the ground, I'd have to say I think you're wrong. I think there are far more people currently staying away from what they perceive as a hostile church, than would leave were the church to attempt to be more publicly accepting. (For example, I see far more Anglican "refugees" from Sydney to other parts of Australia, than the other way around...)
 
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The Liturgist

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Then it's not a matter for confession. Confession deals with sin, guilt, repentance and absolution; it does not deal with matters for which we are not morally culpable. I note your comments about grief but I would argue that in an Anglican tradition, at least, confession is not the place for processing grief. In fact, I would likely counsel such a person that confession is not appropriate to their needs.

Well perhaps in the Anglican tradition you might call it private pastoral prayer. I maintain that the Western model of hamartiology is deeply flawed, but then there are several aspects of Western sacramental theology I regard as deeply flawed, especially the way we tend to do Confirmation, vs. infant chrismation. Which is not say some benefits to youths are not present via the Western approach, but rather, the Eastern approach maximizes Chrismations and does not preclude something like Western confirmation.


One does not do something simply on the basis of a calculus of how many people one might gain or lose as a result.

Well, of course not; the main reason for the ACC not do this is that it would be contrary to moral and liturgical theology for a church to celebrate any departure from Christian sexual morality, even involuntary departures. The ACC has already lost so many members through similar failures compared to more traditional Canadian churches like the Lutheran Church of Canada that the net impact here will not be in and of itself dramatic, initially, but this is the time when the ACC needs to realize it has become a sinking ship and requires damage control and repair to win back the people it has lost.

However, being aware of the situation on the ground, I'd have to say I think you're wrong. I think there are far more people currently staying away from what they perceive as a hostile church, than would leave were the church to attempt to be more publicly accepting. (For example, I see far more Anglican "refugees" from Sydney to other parts of Australia, than the other way around...)

That seems reasonable, because Sydney has some features in common with the North American megachurches. Just as your expertise is specific to the Australian condition, mine is specific to that in the US and certain other countries including Canada whose ecclesiastical life I keep tabs on (but the main external country I watch carefully is the UK; conditions in Canada generally show up in my news feed automatically, because to a large extent Canada and the US share a set of common cultural values, a very good analogy would be Belgium and the Netherlands).
 
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PloverWing

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Conversely, opposition to it is a matter of conscience for most Anglican laity worldwide

I recognize this, yes. This is one of the things that makes reconciliation in the Anglican Communion so difficult.
 
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This development makes me extremely sad:

CANADA: New gender blessings for trial use | VirtueOnline – The Voice for Global Orthodox Anglicanism

As I see it, not only is this horrible liturgical theology, but also horrible moral theology, and represents a spectacular failure on the part of the Church to resist worldly pressure...
Yikes. All that effort could be spent helping people reconcile with the body and purpose their creator gave them.

If the shepherds are lost, what hope do the sheep have? They go to another church or perhaps leave the faith altogether.
 
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The Liturgist

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Yikes. All that effort could be spent helping people reconcile with the body and purpose their creator gave them.

If the shepherds are lost, what hope do the sheep have? They go to another church or perhaps leave the faith altogether.

Precisely, this is my concern.

I recognize this, yes. This is one of the things that makes reconciliation in the Anglican Communion so difficult.

Well, I think a solution could be arrived at in North America wherein the laity would dictate policy for most of the Anglican churches, but certain churches, equivalent to the Continuing Anglican churches of the present, would be set aside and perhaps could join the Union of Utrecht and merge with more like-minded denominations, for example, the Metropolitan Community Church and Liberal Catholic Church.

Conversely, it sounds like in Australia, the situation is very different, with an ultra low church, right wing archdiocese flexing itself over high church and moderate archdioceses.
 
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