mmksparbud
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- Dec 3, 2011
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I'll shut p and take my opinions elsewhere! Soo sorry!!
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Why are you debating in the Baptist forum? You are not Baptist and therefore should follow the rules of only fellowship posts.
How tall were the Masai? Did they live near Pygmies? How tall were the people of Ancient Israel when they entered the Promised Land (Canaan?) How tall were the people there that God told them to kill, that they testified were so tall they considered them as grasshoppers, and they felt like grasshoppers by comparison?... The giants that were on the earth were simply tall people that kept the tall genetic going--human genes. Just like the Masai are very tall --pygmies short---both totally human, different genetic codes...
If the genetics of Goliath of Gath was because of degraded genetic code back 3,100 years ago, why not now? Why do we not see MANY people with six fingers on each hand, and six toes on each foot these days?... What does affect the toes,. or anything else, is the condition Of the genetic code that got passed down from Adam and Eve...
Trying not to! Trying to get the thread to focus on the correct things.... Let's not confuse the spiritual with the physical.
Specifically, David, Solomon, the king, and all of Israel were called God's son, and they all seem pretty human to me. What you have to do is pick out the specific phrase "bene elohim" in order to make a case that the reference in Gen 6 is to divine beings rather than humans, because being God's son didn't necessarily imply divinity.
I spend a good amount of time searching for the scripture reference that backs what I say. It would be nice for you to include a reference for your Biblical claims, this one specifically. I really would prefer to spend the time I save backing up my own points.... in the OT where humans were referred to as God's son(s). Specifically, David, Solomon, the king, and all of Israel were called God's son, and they all seem pretty human to me...
This would be helpful to see! I still do not see the huge difference between the offspring of the sons of Seth, and the daughters of Cain being able to account for what has been claimed we read in G.e.n.e.s.i.s..6. There are claims these people were humans whose genetic code was degraded after the fall. Others claim this is a spiritual distinction, but I have not seen scripture that proves how they were different than humans today.... Is there any documented evidence that anyone in the time of Christ or earlier thought that the Sons of God in Genesis 6 referred to humans? What's the earliest evidence of anyone using that interpretation of that verse?
I spend a good amount of time searching for the scripture reference that backs what I say. It would be nice for you to include a reference for your Biblical claims, this one specifically. I really would prefer to spend the time I save backing up my own points.
It seems I had addressed this particular claim in an earlier post.
Psalm 89:3 The Lord said,
“I have made a covenant with my chosen one;
I have made a promise on oath to David, my servant:
...
89:20 I have discovered David, my servant
....
89:26 He will call out to me,
‘You are my father, my God, and the protector who delivers me.’
89:27 I will appoint him to be my firstborn son,
the most exalted of the earth’s kings.
2 Sam 7:13 He will build a house for my name, and I will make his dynasty permanent. 23 7:14 I will become his father and he will become my son. When he sins, I will correct him with the rod of men and with wounds inflicted by human beings. 7:15 But my loyal love will not be removed from him as I removed it from Saul, whom I removed from before you.
2 Chr 28:6 He said to me, ‘Solomon your son is the one who will build my temple and my courts, for I have chosen him to become my son and I will become his father.
Ex 4:22 You must say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Israel is my son, my firstborn
Hos 11:1 When Israel was a young man, I loved him like a son,
and I summoned my son out of Egypt.
Jer 31:9 They will come back shedding tears of contrition.
I will bring them back praying prayers of repentance.
I will lead them besides streams of water,
along smooth paths where they will never stumble I will do this because I am Israel’s father;
Ephraim is my firstborn son.’”
Deut 32:6 Is this how you repay the Lord,
you foolish, unwise people?
Is he not your father, your creator?
Psalm 2:7 The king says, “I will announce the Lord’s decree. He said to me:
‘You are my son! This very day I have become your father!
This was answered before...No problem.
David:
Solomon:
Israel:
The king:
... means that God had this written as a prophetic reference to Jesus Christ, He being KING, He representing Israel and all believers before God the Father, the king being there in His stead, AND Israel being on Earth in the place of Jesus Christ.
Israel wandering in the wilderness was referred to by Stephen (in his final sermon) as "the church in the wilderness." Jesus taught us (also, through His Apostles) that the Church is His Body. This lends to the meaning of Israel or the king being representative of Christ, and NOT a firstborn son of God in the classical sense (there can only be ONE Firstborn.)
Do you see that you can accept the truth of a scripture, and not apply it a certain, specific way because of the true impact?
... Some have made it their life's work to investigate these things, and have found some startling evidence. Others yet have dismissed or diminished that evidence, and some even generated False Evidence in the effort to mount a Disinformation campaign.
Using the low side, assuming very short people with short arms were making the measurements, we come up with something over 9' tall. Using an average person these days, that would be over 11' (3.35m) tall. A tall person making this measurement would put that height at 13' (3.96m.)(1Sa 17:4) And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.
a cubit is the length of the forearm, 17-21 inches, a span, the spread of the fingers, about a half a cubit.
Let's just say he was definitely over 9 feet.
This was answered before...
What part of the red/underlined is symbolic about Jesus? When did Jesus sin so as to be corrected with the rod of men?
Where was that suggested? What was the basis of the info? I would not say that is impossible, or even way out of reason, I just had not heard it before.... I've seen it suggested that Noah was 7-9 ft tall and one reason for wisdom teeth was to help accommodate for increased jaw size in former times ..
In G e n e s i s 6, God said He would limit man's lifetime to 120 years. Methuselah was 969, and many others lived from 700 to 900, so it is clear that there is a big difference.How would the age of men compare to post flood ages ...
In G e n e s i s 6, God said He would limit man's lifetime to 120 years. Methuselah was 969, and many others lived from 700 to 900, so it is clear that there is a big difference.
G e n e s i s 6
3 ¶ And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Most people only take this to mean that it was 120 years from then till the Great Flood. However, It is clear that not many people ever live to be more than 120 these days!
It is clear that the Davidic Covenant was about Jesus. The Lord was speaking of Soloman in the physical sense but it can only be understood as prophetic concerning Jesus. Jesus never sinned but the sin of His elect He made His own. 2Cor. 5:21....and I don't think it was satisfactory. The verses I posted are pretty clear and require nothing other than just being read at face value.
What part of the red/underlined is symbolic about Jesus? When did Jesus sin so as to be corrected with the rod of men?
It was in the very post you quoted and to which you replied...,,, Where was that suggested? What was the basis of the info? I would not say that is impossible, or even way out of reason, I just had not heard it before...
This is the reason I quote scripture with my comments, and try to tie these things together.In G e n e s i s 6, God said He would limit man's lifetime to 120 years. Methuselah was 969, and many others lived from 700 to 900, so it is clear that there is a big difference.
G e n e s i s 6
3 ¶ And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Most people only take this to mean that it was 120 years from then till the Great Flood. However, It is clear that not many people ever live to be more than 120 these days!
It is clear that the Davidic Covenant was about Jesus. The Lord was speaking of Soloman in the physical sense but it can only be understood as prophetic concerning Jesus. Jesus never sinned but the sin of His elect He made His own. 2Cor. 5:21
Psalm 89:20-37 is a clear reference to Christ concerning the covenant.
(Psa 89:27) Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
89:30 If his sons reject my law
and disobey my regulations,
Notice in verses 30-32 that the sin if His children are visited with the rod and stripes.
Dispensationalist?Not only did 2 Sam 7:14 mention that God would correct David's descendent with a rod and wounds when he sins, and not only can we determine from 2 Sam that it's about Solomon, but the parallel passage in Chronicles explicitly says it was Solomon:
1 Chr 28:5 From all the many sons the Lord has given me, he chose Solomon my son to rule on his behalf over Israel. 28:6 He said to me, ‘Solomon your son is the one who will build my temple and my courts, for I have chosen him to become my son and I will become his father.
There's no sense from the passage that it's about anyone other than Solomon. There is a prophecy made (2 Sam 7//1 Chr 17) and there is a specific fulfillment found (1 Kn 1-2, 5, 8 //1 Chr 28). We have a listing of the specific sins that David's son (Solomon) wound up committing and the consequences that followed (1 Kn 11), just as predicted.
It's not that I don't believe Jesus is the messiah, btw (before anyone throws out that accusation), or that Jesus wouldn't do some things like Solomon did (ie, build a temple, be wise, etc..). It's just that Solomon is explicitly called God's son, just as David was. The simple conclusion is that in the OT, being God's son was a royal function, was a royal title, and had to do with rank and position. In the OT, it didn't say anything about the ontological status of David, Solomon, the king, or Israel. Israel was God's firstborn son as Israel was the chosen people, the inheritor of creation, the one chosen by God to rule creation and be his representation on earth. The king had the same title as Israel due to the fact that he was the "embodiment" of Israel - he was the representative of Israel. He was supposed to represent his people to God and represent God to his people, though none of them ever exactly lived up to those functions.
Now I do think that in John, he uses the title "Son of God" in a unique way that goes well beyond what was said of David, Solomon, the king, or Israel. But that's in John, not Samuel.
It's a Psalm about the Davidic covenant, sure, but I don't think it's a prophecy in the sense that it's a prediction made and later the prediction comes true when Jesus comes around.
Like I said above, being the firstborn describes position and rank - "higher than the kings of the earth."
Sons? Did Jesus have sons? No, but David did. And they disobeyed the law.
Just as happened with the various bad kings of Israel and Judah.
Sorry... I see that the question I was struggling to answer was my question in your text, as if you were asking that of me. It is taking some effort to get through this.Psalms 90:10 says our days are 3 score and ten , 4 score if we have strength but after that our days are filled with trouble .. So God cut the years again but there are exceptions ..
Where was that suggested? What was the basis of the info? I would not say that is impossible, or even way out of reason, I just had not heard it before.
Walter Veith and Kent Hovind spoke a little in one of their Creation series videos , also there are cases where baby and permanent teeth come in together , Heck I got two sets but I can tote'm in my pocket , hehehe ...
Veith has some great insight on his creation series but they are long and slow starting , when he gets rolling it is awesome IMO
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