Need help with Daniel 9:24!

[featheredprop]

Hello!

This is my first post at this forum. I came here hoping to find some dispensationalists who can provide me with some answers. I am not a dispensationalist, but am very open minded about these things.

In Daniel 9:24 Gabriel told Daniel that 70 weeks have been determined. He then listed some things that the 70 weeks have been determined to do. The list of things that will be fulfilled are as follows (I've counted the first two as the same):

1) sin will end
2) iniquity will be atoned for
3) everlasting righteousness will be brought in
4) vision and prophecy will be sealed
5) the Most Holy (place?) will be anointed

Here is my thinking ...

If it can be demonstrated that all five of these conditions have NOT been fulfilled, then it MUST be concluded that the 70th week has not yet been fulfilled.

On the other hand, if it can be determined that these conditions have BEEN fulfilled, then it must be concluded that the prophecy has been complete, and the 70th week now is over.

I have already collected various NT passages indicating that the five things might have already been fulfilled. I have found a few passages that might indicate otherwise.

Can someone please provide me with some NT passages that support your position that the prophecy is still unfulfilled? I am not interested in philosophical arguments - unless that is all that you have.

Thanks!!

peace,

dane

 

[Terral]

Hi Dane:

Dane >> Need help with Daniel 9:24!

Hello!

This is my first post at this forum. I came here hoping to find some dispensationalists who can provide me with some answers. I am not a dispensationalist, but am very open minded about these things.

Good luck finding any remaining Dispy’s, as I also am no dispensationalist; but come here to debate them on these Bible Topics. Usually the few that visit here have very little to say. From what I see of your query, you need much more help than just with a proper interpretation of Daniel 9:24. :0) The right answer is one that you do not expect.

Dane >> In Daniel 9:24 Gabriel told Daniel that 70 weeks have been determined. He then listed some things that the 70 weeks have been determined to do. The list of things that will be fulfilled are as follows (I've counted the first two as the same):

1) sin will end
2) iniquity will be atoned for
3) everlasting righteousness will be brought in
4) vision and prophecy will be sealed
5) the Most Holy (place?) will be anointed

First of all, the seventy weeks are seventy times seven years or the final 490 years of the 1000 Year Day of the Lord still very much in the ‘future’ of this earth (diagram). Most people cannot write commentary on the 1000 Year Day of the Lord (shown in blue), because their “1000 Year Day of the Lord” (in blue again) has ‘no duration’ at all. They fail to include the right number of years exactly as predicted by Peter in 2Peter 3:8. The short of a long story is that David will be installed a ‘prince’ (Eze 34:23-25) for the upcoming 1000 Year Day of the Lord, but he is ‘cut off’ (Dan 9:26) after 62 weeks with just 49 years to go ‘before’ the seven years of Jacob’s Trouble (one week). Satan (the Dragon), his ‘son of destruction’ (the Beast) and their False Prophet (Rev 13) all incarnate onto the world as men at key times leading up to the END of the Age that marks the fulfillment of Christ’s Olivet Discourse Prophecies of Matthew 24. The item you missed from Daniel 9:24 is the “finish the transgression” part that has roots extending back to before this universe was even called into being.

The Satanic Rebellion started in God’s Infinite Realm (diagram = far left) where “you are gods” (Ps 82:6, Jn 10:34). God threw Satan out of His Infinite Realm ‘and’ Michael the Archangel through his sorry behind out of ‘Heaven’ (diagram) to find him playing the “god of this world/universe” (2Cor. 4:3-4) where everything is being reenacted for the ‘third’ and ‘final’ time. When Daniel says, “desolations are determined” (Dan. 9:26), then he is saying ‘what will be done has been done’ like we see characterized in Ecc. 1:9-11. Therefore, if you really want to solve this Daniel 9 mystery, then be prepared to take a big step backwards in order to see the big picture.

Dane >> Here is my thinking ...

If it can be demonstrated that all five of these conditions have NOT been fulfilled, then it MUST be concluded that the 70th week has not yet been fulfilled.

That certainly makes good sense. Here are some clues to help you out:

1. Christ connects the setting up of the ‘abomination of desolation’ (Matt. 24:15) to Daniel’s prophecies in Dan 11:31 and Dan 12:11-13 very much connected to the ‘END of the Age’ (Dan 12:13, Matt 24:3+). That means you must play ‘subtraction’ of years to a point where the 490 years (Seventy Weeks) actually begin.

2. David is installed as ‘prince’ (Eze 34:23-25) ‘and’ installed a second time as ‘king’ but this time “forever” (Eze 37:24-28), which fulfills such prophecies as Jeremiah 30:7-9.

3. The resurrection of Ezekiel 37:11-12 for the “Whole House of Israel” (= Rev 20:11-15) stands between those two Davidic installations.

4. David is the “Messiah” being ‘cut off’ in Daniel 9:26 leading up to the END of the Age, as just one event taking place near the end of the final 490 years of the 1000 Year Day of the Lord.

Dane >> On the other hand, if it can be determined that these conditions have BEEN fulfilled, then it must be concluded that the prophecy has been complete, and the 70th week now is over.

Good luck! :0) Your problem is that the math of Daniel and Christ will lead everyone to the END of the Age (Dan 12:13, Matt. 24:3-31) and that momentous event is still very much in the future. Paul connects ‘our’ mystery Rapture (1Thes 4:16-17) to when the ‘times and epochs’ (Acts 1:6-7) of the 1000 Year Day of the Lord (1Thes 5:1-2) COMES (2Thes 2:2), or when that “Prophetic Period” actually BEGINS. Therefore, we must be at least 1000 Years from the END of the age ‘from which’ your Seventy Weeks must be derived. You are living in the “2000 Year Mystery Time” never seen by Daniel or any of the OT Prophets, which is the very reason all of Daniel’s END of the Age prophecies have been put on hold.

Dane >> I have already collected various NT passages indicating that the five things might have already been fulfilled. I have found a few passages that might indicate otherwise.

All I can say is “Good Luck,” because the 1000 Year Day of the Lord where ALL of these things are indeed ‘fulfilled’ has yet to even begin.

Dane >> Can someone please provide me with some NT passages that support your position that the prophecy is still unfulfilled? I am not interested in philosophical arguments - unless that is all that you have.

First of all, please understand that my posts are written for the benefit of the unbiased ‘third-party’ reader passing judgment on everyone writing on your OP Topic, even if Dane is never convinced of anything. Secondly, Scripture is filled with evidence that Daniel’s END of the Age prophecies have yet to be fulfilled.

1. Peter prophecies about a ‘plural’ number of restoration ‘times’ (chronos) in Acts 3:21.

2. James uses Peter’s testimony (in Acts 15 concerning the Gentiles) to prove the ‘Tabernacle of David’ (Acts 15:16-18) would be restored “After these things” of today.

3. Paul agrees 100 percent saying that “All Israel Will Be Saved” but only after the “Fullness Of the Gentiles has come in” (Rom 11:25), because “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”

The “spirit of stupor” (see Romans 11:7-11) upon Israel is only a temporary blindness, until this current Mystery Time containing the “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2) is over at our Rapture. Only then will the ‘deliverer from Zion’ (Elijah/David) return to restore all things, during the 1000 Year Day of the Lord.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[jeffweeder]

Hello Fearthered
I believe these points could only have been fulfilled by Jesus death and ressurection.

1) sin will end
2) iniquity will be atoned for
3) everlasting righteousness will be brought in
4) vision and prophecy will be sealed
5) the Most Holy (place?) will be anointed

Its 70 weeks for all of them, so either none of them have been or all of them have been.

After the going forth of the decree--457 BC, There would be 7 and 62 weeks and then messiah,
Thats 69 weeks until Messiah.
John the Baptist was told that the one whome you see the Spirit descend and remain, he would be the Messiah.
So Messiah hath been revealed at his baptism.
From 457 BC TO 26 AD is 483 years ,or 7 and 62 weeks.
Messiah Jesus had then just began his work.
This puts his Ministry in the 70th week.
It then says that Messiah would be cut off 1/2 way through the week....and he was.
The disciples were told to stay in Jerusalem until they were filled with power and continue, and then to take it to the gentiles. (Jew first and then the Gentile)
This completed the 70 weeks for Daniels people...salvation had been made available to them, but they rejected him....and now the times of the Gentiles is ushered in.

Daniel searched through the book of Jeremiah to see how long they would be in captivity, and found it to be 70 years.
So he prayed and got an answer of 70 weeks-that Messiah would come and put an end to sin etc.
To place a gap between the 69 and 70th week is to say that messiah came and did nothing, which we know isnt true.
Plus it would make the decree 350+ weeks and not 70 as gabriel said it would be.
Gabriel is on hand again to prepare Mary and Joseph for the birth and fulfillment of the one who would do this work of atonement.........must go
God bless.

 

[holdon]

How can anybody in his right mind say that the transgression has been completed, and that there has come an end to sins.???? Or that righteousness of the ages has come???? upon Daniel's people and his holy city? Or that the holy of holies has been anointed??

 

[jeffweeder]

How can anybody in his right mind say that the transgression has been completed, and that there has come an end to sins.???? Or that righteousness of the ages has come???? upon Daniel's people and his holy city? Or that the holy of holies has been anointed??

The Holy place is annointed as Jesus sits in heaven next to the Father.
We sit in the heavenly realms also as his sacrifice put me under grace and put away the law and where there is no law there is no transgression.
In Christ i am righteous forever because of what he did for me.

When Jesus Died on the cross he said..... It is finished, what do you think he meant?

 

[holdon]

The Holy place is annointed as Jesus sits in heaven next to the Father.
We sit in the heavenly realms also as his sacrifice put me under grace and put away the law and where there is no law there is no transgression.
In Christ i am righteous forever because of what he did for me.

When Jesus Died on the cross he said..... It is finished, what do you think he meant?

So, you don't sin anymore? Or anyone else in this world, especially the people of Israel, since that's what Daniel is speaking of?

Get real...

 

[jeffweeder]

didnt post completely for some reason. but it did below

 

[jeffweeder]

So, you don't sin anymore?

I never said that, but atonement can be found in Christ, great Mediator that he is.

Get real...

The reality is that in Christ --sin is not seen by the father, it doesnt e3xist because Jesus washed away any trace of it that could easily be found on me.

This is the good news, that God doesnt count one sin against him if he has recieved the gift of his only son.

You make it sound like theres goin to come a time when we wont need to rely on our saviour, we'll achieve it ourselves and have something to boast about.....
He ended sins power and he is the way the truth and the life....and it did it when Gabriel said he would. It is sealed , it is sure, kept in heaven for me...he is my salvation.

 

[featheredprop]

Terral,

Thanks for the very detailed reply. You mentioned that there are not many Dispy's lurking here. That may be the case because I didn't receive any Dispensational responses. I've been searching on the internet and cannot find any good dispensational explainations to it either.

My position is a-mil. Therefore, I see that the "prince" David that you talked about already reigning in the fulfillment of Christ.

Thanks again!

dane

 

[Biblewriter]

Hello!

This is my first post at this forum. I came here hoping to find some dispensationalists who can provide me with some answers. I am not a dispensationalist, but am very open minded about these things.

In Daniel 9:24 Gabriel told Daniel that 70 weeks have been determined. He then listed some things that the 70 weeks have been determined to do. The list of things that will be fulfilled are as follows (I've counted the first two as the same):

1) sin will end
2) iniquity will be atoned for
3) everlasting righteousness will be brought in
4) vision and prophecy will be sealed
5) the Most Holy (place?) will be anointed

Here is my thinking ...

If it can be demonstrated that all five of these conditions have NOT been fulfilled, then it MUST be concluded that the 70th week has not yet been fulfilled.

On the other hand, if it can be determined that these conditions have BEEN fulfilled, then it must be concluded that the prophecy has been complete, and the 70th week now is over.

I have already collected various NT passages indicating that the five things might have already been fulfilled. I have found a few passages that might indicate otherwise.

Can someone please provide me with some NT passages that support your position that the prophecy is still unfulfilled? I am not interested in philosophical arguments - unless that is all that you have.

Thanks!!

peace,

dane

Terral is correct that there are not many Dispensationalists here any more. This is mainly because we have gotten tired of continual attacks containing more emotion than substance.

Knowing you are approaching this from an amil perspective helps.

Looking again at the passage in question:

Daniel 9:24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I think your combining of the first two items into one is an oversimplification. There is a difference between a transgression and a sin. A sin is simply doing (or even thinking) something that ought not to be done (or thought). But a transgression is a violation of a specific rule or law. So the list of items to discuss contains six items, not five.

First, we need to realize that for the seventy weeks to have been already completed, ALL six of these items must have been completed. If there is even one that has not taken place, then the seventy weeks have not yet been completed.

Second, we need to remember who these seventy weeks apply to. The first words of this verse are "seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city."

The first item in our revised list is:

1 "to finish the transgression."

The transgression of Daniel's people must be finished. It is very plain that Daniel's people were the Jews. So we must first ask, are the Jews' transgressions finished? Have the Jews submitted themselves to the righteousness of God? The answer is obvious, but since you asked for New Testament passages, let's read the first part of Romans 10: 1Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
So the Jews have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.

But there is a very specific transgression coming. In John 5:43 Jesus spoke of this when He said "I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." The coming of this individual is mentioned in many other New Testament passages. Jesus spoke of it again when he said "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:" (Matthew 24:15-16) We also read of it in other places in the New Testament: "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."(1 John 2:18) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." (Revelation 13:11) Notice that this beast looked like a lamb (the lamb of God), but he spake as a dragon (that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan). As the Jews have not yet worshiped this person called Antichrist, their transgressions are not yet finished.

The next item in the revised list is:

2 "to make an end of sins"

Sin has plainly been atoned for, but the sins of the Jews most certainly did not end at that time. Again, since you asked for specific New Testament passages: "...the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." (1 Thessalonians 2:14-16)

The next item is:

3 "to make reconciliation for iniquity"

As noted above, this plainly happened at the cross. Anyone who denies this is not a Christian, in any Biblical sense of the word.

Three items remain on our list:

4 "to bring in everlasting righteousness"
5 "to seal up the vision and prophecy"
6 "to anoint the most holy"

There is a limit to the length of a single post in this forum, so a discussion of these items will have to wait for another post.

 

[Biblewriter]

Repeating the passage in question:

Daniel 9:24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Three items remain on our list:

4 "to bring in everlasting righteousness"

We must remember that this list applies to Daniel's people, the Jews, and to Daniel's holy city, Jerusalem. Was everlasting righteousness brought to them when our Lord atoned for their sins? If so, it could not have still been in the future when Paul wrote the following:

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Romans 11:25-27)

In this passage we plainly see that there is a time when "all Israel shall be saved." When that happens, "everlasting righteousness" will be brought in for the Jews. But that time will not come until "the fullness of the gentiles be come in." Until that time, "blindness in part is happened to Israel."

The next item on our list is:

5 "to seal up the vision and prophecy"

We have already seen that Jesus specifically referred to to "the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet" as something that would take place in the future. (Matthew 24:15) in that passage He continued by saying 1"Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." (Matthew 24:16-24)

There can be no doubt whatsoever that this did not happen during, or even soon after, Jesus was here.. But Jesus said it would happen so soon after the "abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet" that it would be necessary at that time to flee so fast that they were not even to return to their homes to get their clothes.

So "vision and prophecy" were unquestionably not "sealed up" in the first coming of Jesus.

The last item on the list is:

6 "to anoint the most holy"

There can be legitimate debate as to whether this refers to the most holy place or the most holy person. If it means the most holy person, it could be claimed that Jesus was anointed when the Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, as recorded in all four gospels. (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, and John 1:32)

If it means the most holy place, there can be debate on what that place is. If it is heaven, it could be argued that heaven was anointed when Jesus triumphantly returned there after His resurrection.

I do not believe that any of these contentions is correct. But since each of these arguments could legitimately be made, I do not think that it is possible to PROVE from the New Testament alone that this last item has not been fulfilled.

So we now see that one of these six items has taken place, and whether or not another has taken place can legitimately be debated. But this still leaves four items on this list that are shown in the New Testament to have not been fulfilled in the first coming of Jesus.

So it is clear that Daniel's seventy weeks have not been fulfilled.

But it should be made clear that Dispensationalism does not depend on this prophecy alone. In fact, while most Dispensationalists believe that Daniel's seventy weeks are not completed, belief in that is not necessary to make a person a Dispensationalist.

A Dispensationalist is someone who believes that God acts toward man in different ways at different times.

Many have incorrectly concluded that Dispensationalist think that God changed His mind, or that He tried certain approaches that failed, so He then tried other approaches. Dispensationalists do not imagine either of these.

Dispensationalists believe that God Has used (and will in the future use) various approaches to mankind in order to demonstrate that we fail in every conceivable condition. While there is some difference within the movement, Dispensationalists normally break down these approaches approximately as follows:

God first gave man everything he could possibly need or even legitimately want. he gave him only one rule. Man broke that only rule and was expelled from the garden.

Then God left man up to his conscience. But they corrupted themselves so completely that He wiped them all out with a flood, leaving only one family.

Then God established human government. But men only united in rebellion against Him. So He confused their languages so they could no more so unite.

Then God called out a man and gave him a promise. But that man's descendants forgot the promise and were reduced to slavery.

Then God called out the nation of that man's descendants and gave them a righteous law. But that nation only rebelled and finally crucified the only One that ever kept that righteous law.

Then God, in grace, offered free salvation to all who believe. But He has told us that this will end in apostasy.

Finally God will imprison Satan and rule the entire world in righteousness until there is no man living who has any memory of a time when things were different. But then He will release Satan from prison and mankind will again rebel. He will answer by burning up the entire earth.

Having thus perfectly (seven times- the number of perfection) demonstrated that man will always fail, God will preserve the saints in a way He has not revealed, and will re-populate the earth with only the righteous, and sin will be no more.

 

[Notrash]

Terral is correct that there are not many Dispensationalists here any more. This is mainly because we have gotten tired of continual attacks containing more emotion than substance.

It goes both ways. I see that most of the dispensational discussions are occurring in the eschatological section rather than the dispensational subheadings. Could it be that dispensationalist thrives on interaction and attempting to indoctrinate against other views?

Since I learned that opposing views are not welcome in Dispy forum, I've not spent time in Dispy forum. I would think that dispy (rapture, premillenialism, zionism, dual Israels etc) should respect eschatology and keep their discussions in dispy forum.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Can someone please provide me with some NT passages that support your position that the prophecy is still unfulfilled? I am not interested in philosophical arguments - unless that is all that you have.

I am a dispensationalist. Biblewriter has given a good in-depth answer to the points. Here is what I will point out:

The angel Gabriel was speaking to Daniel, a Jew, and he said:

Daniel 9:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

Daniel's people can only be the Jews, as that is also evident from the detailed prophecies in the book of Daniel. The holy city can only be Jerusalem.

1) sin will end - referring to Israel's disobedience (Rom 11:11-12)
2) iniquity will be atoned for - when the nation of Israel turns to Christ (Rom 11:20-27)
3) everlasting righteousness will be brought in - reference to the millennial kingdom - (Acts 3:19-21)
4) vision and prophecy will be sealed - a "sealed" prophecy is also a fulfilled prophecy, or in other words the prophecies will be fulfilled in the future millennial kingdom
5) the Most Holy (place?) will be anointed - could be either the temple or Jesus Christ (Psalm 110)


LDG

 

[featheredprop]

Biblewriter,

Thank you very much for the reply!

I am sorry to hear that some here have suffered emotional attacks from Christians over this issue. That is very sad.

I really appreciate you response, and the Bible passages that you provided. I am currently teaching an Eschatology class, and we are soon to walk through this material. Even though I am a-mil, and take a mostly preterist view of Revelation, I am not interested in just representing my own point of view to the class. Rather, I would like to have the class examine the various arguments that exist for most points of view. Since Pre-mil Dispensationalism is a very popular view, I am very interested in discussing it with the class.

Let me ask another question. Would you say that the view you shared on Daniel 9:24 is consistent with most Dispensationlists today? Or, do you think Dispensationalists are divided over the understanding of this verse? What do you think Charles Ryrie would say? (I do not have any of his books).

Thanks again for your very straightforward answer, and for sharing Biblical support for your answer.

peace,

dane

 

[EGW]

Dan 9:24
This verse sets the goals of the 70 week prophecy of Daniel.


(A) "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,"
- This sets the time period at 70 weeks. It is generally accepted here that you must use the day = year prophecy formula (Num 14:34, Ezek 4:6), yielding a time period of 490 years from start to completion.
- The word determined here actually means "cut off". This 70 weeks are cut off from, or begin at the same time as, the larger 2300 day (year) prophecy of Dan 8:14, which has as it's focus the cleansing of the sanctuary in heaven, the beginning of Judgment. So both the 70 week (490 year) and the 2300 day (year) prophecy begin at the same date. Note that you can not arbitrarily apply the year for a day principle in one case and not another, you must remain consistent. Dan 8:26 strongly hints that the 2300 day prophecy in verse 14 is not just 2300 days, but many days more than it literally indicates. This would also support using year instead of day.


(B) "to finish the transgression (rebellion),"
- Meaning to the Jews: end your transgression of (rebellion against) God's Law and return to obedience.
- Alludes to the victory of Jesus Christ over transgression at the cross.


(C) "and to make an end of sins,"
- Meaning to the Jews: repent from sin.
- Alludes to the victory of Jesus Christ over sin at the cross.


(D) "and to make reconciliation for iniquity,"
- Meaning to the Jews: Atonement for sins through sacrificial temple ceremonies (symbolic of Jesus).
- Alludes to the reconciliation for iniquity by Jesus Christ at the cross.


(E) "and to bring in everlasting righteousness,"
- Alludes to the death of Jesus the Messiah at the cross making everlasting righteousness available to all with faith. Without His death at the cross we are all condemned to the second death. By His death on the cross, the requirement of the Law was met and His everlasting righteousness established. Psa 119:142


(F) "and to seal up the vision and prophecy,"
- To complete Jesus' divine mission according to the prophecy, at the exact appointed times. The exact date of Jesus' baptism was predicted by Daniel and every prophecy about the crucifixion, including Daniel's which gave the exact date, was sealed (fulfilled) during the 70 weeks.
- Included in this is the 2300 day (year) prophecy of Dan 8:14, which is the longest prophetic period in the Bible. At it's conclusion, it will be the last specific prophetic date that can be calculated with accuracy, hence there is a finishing (sealing) of this vision of Daniel and an end to all prophetic dates. Because Daniel predicted the historical events of the 70 weeks with complete accuracy, we can also trust that the 2300 day (year) prophecy is just as accurate.


(G) "and to anoint the most Holy."
- As the earthly temple was anointed in Lev 8:10-11, so the heavenly temple was anointed by Jesus as he assumed the role of our High Priest, on his return to heaven. Also, Jesus himself was anointed as the Messiah at His Baptism (Mat 3:16, Mark 1:9, Luke 3:21).
So verse 24 has set the goals of the 70 week prophecy of Daniel. The twofold focus of the prophecy: first on the Jews reconciling themselves with God within the appointed time (490 years), and second, Jesus being baptized and paying the price of sin at the cross for us and becoming our High Priest. Note that there is nothing in verse 24 referring to the millennial kingdom, or the antichrist, or a seven year tribulation and there is nothing to indicate the 490 years are anything but a continuous period of time that ended in 34 A.D.

 

[EGW]

Note this excerpt from the respected Presbyterian minister Matthew Henry's Commentary, dated 1708-1710:

The book of Daniel, Verses 20-27
An answer was immediately sent to Daniel's prayer, and it is a very memorable one. We cannot now expect that God should send answers to our prayers by angels, but if we pray with fervency for that which God has promised, we may by faith take the promise as an immediate answer to the prayer; for He is faithful that has promised. Daniel had a far greater and more glorious redemption discovered to him, which God would work out for his church in the latter days. Those who would be acquainted with Christ and his grace, must be much in prayer. The evening offering was a type of the great sacrifice Christ was to offer in the evening of the world: in virtue of that sacrifice Daniel's prayer was accepted; and for the sake of that, this glorious discovery of redeeming love was made to him. We have, in verses ( 24-27 ), one of the most remarkable prophecies of Christ, of his coming and his salvation. It shows that the Jews are guilty of most obstinate unbelief, in expecting another Messiah, so long after the time expressly fixed for his coming. The seventy weeks mean a day for a year, or 490 years. About the end of this period a sacrifice would be offered, making full atonement for sin, and bringing in everlasting righteousness for the complete justification of every believer. Then the Jews, in the crucifixion of Jesus, would commit that crime by which the measure of their guilt would be filled up, and troubles would come upon their nation. All blessings bestowed on sinful man come through Christ's atoning sacrifice, who suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God. Here is our way of access to the throne of grace, and of our entrance to heaven. This seals the sum of prophecy, and confirms the covenant with many; and while we rejoice in the blessings of salvation, we should remember what they cost the Redeemer. How can those escape who neglect so great salvation!
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As you can see from the above quote, Matthew Henry, a Protestant writing in the early 18th century, knew nothing of a gap between the 69th and 70th week, and he knew nothing of a 7 year peace treaty with the antichrist in verse 27.

The futurist interpretation of this passage denies the prophecy of Jesus' baptism in verse 24. It also denies His crucifixion in verse 27 and applies it instead to the antichrist, in an astounding twisting of scripture. I submit the futurist's house is built on sand and will not stand scrutiny. They do not have a case, they have a relatively recent fairy tale designed to obscure the truth and spread confusion, whether they know it or not. The author of that futurist fairy tale is a Spanish Jesuit priest by the name of Francisco Ribera (1537-1591). During the counterreformation he concocted the futurist interpretation to deflect reformist claims that the Papacy was the Antichrist of scripture. There is apparently no evidence that the futurist interpretation predates the Catholic counterreformation. It was intended as a smoke screen, and it still works today to a large degree.

 

[Notrash]

Biblewriter,

Thank you very much for the reply!

I am sorry to hear that some here have suffered emotional attacks from Christians over this issue. That is very sad.

I really appreciate you response, and the Bible passages that you provided. I am currently teaching an Eschatology class, and we are soon to walk through this material. Even though I am a-mil, and take a mostly preterist view of Revelation, I am not interested in just representing my own point of view to the class. Rather, I would like to have the class examine the various arguments that exist for most points of view. Since Pre-mil Dispensationalism is a very popular view, I am very interested in discussing it with the class.

Let me ask another question. Would you say that the view you shared on Daniel 9:24 is consistent with most Dispensationlists today? Or, do you think Dispensationalists are divided over the understanding of this verse? What do you think Charles Ryrie would say? (I do not have any of his books).

Thanks again for your very straightforward answer, and for sharing Biblical support for your answer.

peace,

dane

There are actually at least 4 views to be considered. Futurist, Historist, Pretertist, and Idealist.
http://www.google.com/search?q=four...d=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8

 

[featheredprop]

Yes, historically there are four different views in understanding the Eschatology. However, I am interested in the Dispensational view of Dan. 9:24 for the sake of comparison.

peace,

dane

 

[Biblewriter]

Biblewriter,

Thank you very much for the reply!

I am sorry to hear that some here have suffered emotional attacks from Christians over this issue. That is very sad.

I really appreciate you response, and the Bible passages that you provided. I am currently teaching an Eschatology class, and we are soon to walk through this material. Even though I am a-mil, and take a mostly preterist view of Revelation, I am not interested in just representing my own point of view to the class. Rather, I would like to have the class examine the various arguments that exist for most points of view. Since Pre-mil Dispensationalism is a very popular view, I am very interested in discussing it with the class.

Let me ask another question. Would you say that the view you shared on Daniel 9:24 is consistent with most Dispensationlists today? Or, do you think Dispensationalists are divided over the understanding of this verse? What do you think Charles Ryrie would say? (I do not have any of his books).

Thanks again for your very straightforward answer, and for sharing Biblical support for your answer.

peace,

dane

There have been emotional attacks in almost every forum here, I suppose. But I was not referring to personal attacks, but mainly to repeated posts that rant on and on about a person's viewpoint, but say very little of substance. This has not been the case with posters like Notrash, whit whom I have had a great many hot debates. He disagrees with almost everything I have to say, but he does it with reasoned arguments. Such reasoned debate helps all of us to understand the scriptures better. Each one has to study the scriptures extensively to back up their own opinions, and (hopefully) each of us occasionally actually learns something from those who disagree with them. This debate occasionally becomes emotional, rather than ideological, when someone crosses the line and accidentally (or otherwise) insults someone else. But as adults, most of us soon get over such transgressions. But many just express opinions and call these proofs of what they claim.

As to the views of others, isms are not groups. They are schools of thought. So there is no cohesion within an ism, as there is within a group. But I believe that what I have said here represents the general view of most Dispensationalists.

To understand the Dispensational approach to the scriptures it might be helpful to read a small section from my book, "Keys to Bible Prophecy." This particular section has been highly praised by some of the biggest names in the field.

Key Principles of Prophetic Interpretation

Principle #1: The key to the Bible is the Bible.

Except in rare questions such as the meaning of ancient words or the identity of ancient places or nations, we do not gain an understanding of the Bible from external information, we gain an understanding of external information from the Bible.


Principle #2: The Bible agrees with itself.

An interpretation of any part of the Bible is not correct if it disagrees with any other part of the Bible.


Principle #3: Biblical language is precise.

Israel does not mean the church, and the church does not mean Israel. Israel does not mean Judah, and Judah does not mean Israel. The king does not mean the prince, and the prince does not mean the king.


Principle #4: Every detail in the Bible is significant.

God does not waste words. The far north is not the same as the north.


Principle #5: The Bible means what it says.

Express statements of coming events mean exactly what they say.


Principle #6: Biblical visions are symbolic.

Prophetic visions in the Bible are not pictures of coming events. They are visual symbols of these events.


Principle #7: Biblical symbolism is moral.

The subject of a Biblical vision is something that has a moral similarity to what the prophet saw.


Principle #8: Human reasoning is useless.

We know the meaning of Biblical symbols only through Biblical statements about their meanings.


Principle #9: Biblical symbolism is consistent.

If the Bible gives us the meaning of a symbol in one passage, it has the same meaning in other passages.


Principle #10: Bible prophecy concerns the time of the end.

Many prophecies have had a partial fulfillment in the past, and may thus appear to apply only to that time; but unless every detail of a prophecy has been fulfilled, it also concerns the future.

As I am the owner of the copyright on this material, I have the right to post it here.

 

[featheredprop]

Biblewriter wrote: "To understand the Dispensational approach to the scriptures it might be helpful to read a small section from my book, "Keys to Bible Prophecy." This particular section has been highly praised by some of the biggest names in the field."

I don't know how well your hermeneutical list represents the general Dispensational system. However, it is easy to see how one would gain a Dispensational world view by applying those principles.

As a teacher I like to give my students a reasonable explanation of various points of view on a certain subject. This allows them to see the merits or demerits of each view. Obviously I have my own point of view. But my goal is not to indoctrinate them with my view. My goal is to make them informed enough to make their own decisions.

peace,

dane