Need help with Colossians 1:15-20

[moomoomeow3]

Could someone explain Colossians 1:15-20 for me? It's confusing me a bit.
P.S. I'm using the NRSV version.

 

[St_Worm2]

Could someone explain Colossians 1:15-20 for me? It's confusing me a bit.
P.S. I'm using the NRSV version.

There is quite a bit in those 6 verses. Is there something in particular that you don't understand?

Generally however, this passage describes the Deity of Christ. That He is "the image of the invisible God" means that He is the exact likeness of Him, that He is truly and fully God in every way (see v9 as well).

"First-born", in this case, means that He has preeminence over Creation. IOW, that He is highest in "rank". It has nothing to do with His chronological order in the Creation (obviously), 1. because, clearly, He was not the first human to walk on this earth and 2. because He's not part of the Creation as He is, in fact, the Creator .. v16.

The rest of this passage goes on in great detail about what He did/does as our Creator, God, and Savior.

Does that help? If not, let me know which parts are still not clear and I'll do my best to explain them!

BTW, I love this passage of Scripture ..

Yours and His,
David

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and
apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
St. John 1:1-3​

 

[Foghorn]

Yes, I agree with St worm2, there is quite a lot in there. Is there anything in particular, other then what st worm2 posted?

 

[hedrick]

Could someone explain Colossians 1:15-20 for me? It's confusing me a bit.
P.S. I'm using the NRSV version.

Col 1 is one of a small number of passages that speak of Christ existing before Jesus' human birth. I'm not sure exactly what your problem is, but this passage moves between Jesus as a human and the "preexistent" (i.e. existing before the universe) Christ.

The image of the invisible God speaks of Jesus as letting us see in human form what God is like. Similarly, firstborn from the dead refers to Paul's idea that we will all end up having resurrection bodies just as the resurrected Jesus dead, so Jesus is the first of many. And of course it sees Jesus' death as God's own self-sacrifice.

However vs 16 speaks of some kind of preexistence. Orthodox Christianity sees this as reflecting the Incarnation. The eternal Logos is, as described here, the agent of creation. Jesus is the Logos' human form and life.

In the 1st Cent context, the background is Jewish speculative thought, which personified God's Word or Wisdom. E.g. see Proverbs 8 where Wisdom stands at the crossroads calling people, and later in the chapter is the agent of creation. Jews presumably didn't see the Logos as a separate entity, exactly. However these personified attributes of God mediated his presence among men, helping prevent the transcendent God from being completely isolated from his created world.

John (in the beginning of John 1) and a few other authors saw Jesus as being the human form of this Word / Wisdom, as being God's presence in human form. The preexistence passages such as this one show that God's presence didn't start in 4 BC, but that the role that Jesus embodies was always part of God. One way to put it is that God was always incarnatable, that the creation already anticipated and reflected God's presence in and through Jesus.

These ideas developed over the next few centuries into the doctrines of the Trinity and Incarnation.

 

[moomoomeow3]

What confuses me is the mass quantity of spirituality and symbolism... I really would just like an explanation of what is trying to be said here o.o maybe a summary, perhaps.

 

[St_Worm2]

What confuses me is the mass quantity of spirituality and symbolism... I really would just like an explanation of what is trying to be said here o.o maybe a summary, perhaps.

OK, let's pull it apart. Here is a nice introduction to the passage/book.

Of all the Bible’s teaching about Jesus Christ, none is more significant than Colossians 1:15–19. This dramatic and powerful passage removes any needless doubt or confusion over Jesus’ true identity. It is vital to a proper understanding of the Christian faith.
​

As mentioned in the introduction, much of the heresy threatening the Colossian church centered on the Person of Christ. The heretics, denying His humanity, viewed Christ as one of many lesser descending spirit beings that emanated from God. The idea that God Himself could become man was absurd to them. Thus, they also denied His deity.​

Nor was Christ adequate for salvation, according to the errorists. Salvation required a superior, mystical, secret knowledge, beyond that of the gospel of Christ. It also involved worshiping the good emanations (Angels) and keeping the Jewish ceremonial laws.​

In the first three chapters of Colossians, Paul confronts the Colossian heresy head on. He rejects their denial of Christ’s humanity, pointing out that it is in Him that "all the fulness of Deity dwell-s in bodily form" (2:9). Paul also rejects their worship of angels (2:18), and their ceremonialism (2:16–17). He emphatically denies that any secret knowledge is required for salvation, pointing out that in Christ "are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (2:3; cf. 1:27; 3:1–4).​

By far the most serious aspect of the Colossian heresy was its rejection of Christ’s deity. Before getting to the other issues, Paul makes an emphatic defense of that crucial doctrine. Christians would do well to follow his example in their confrontations with cultists. The primary focus of discussions with them should be the deity of Jesus Christ.​

In Colossians 1:15–19, Paul reveals our Lord’s true identity by viewing Him in relation to four things: God, the universe, the unseen world, and the church.... from Colossians: MacArthur NT Commentary​

​

Does that help? Questions? Shall we move onto v15?

--David​

 

[moomoomeow3]

Yes go ahead.

 

[pshun2404]

What confuses me is the mass quantity of spirituality and symbolism... I really would just like an explanation of what is trying to be said here o.o maybe a summary, perhaps.

Christ is at once YHVH manifest (come in the flesh) and as Jesus (His human aspect, i.e., the body, which Hebrews 2 tells us is MADE a little lower than the angels) He is the Tabernacle not made with hands in which the fulness of the Diety dwells.

In John 1 we read a parallel account...first we hear of the Word who is with God and is God (this is the most confusing to many so I suggest you google "The Memra" which in Greek is translated "Logos")...so as Christ manifest He is WITH God while still being fully God.

John goes on to tell us He made all that was made (He is the very Creator) who came in the flesh (incarnation) and "dwelt" among us. Now the word "dwelt" here is the Greek "skeenoo" which means "to pitch tent" (tabernacle) so He is not only God but His flesh is the dwelling place of God (the flesh is NOT God)...and John also tells us that in Christ we beheld His glory (thus the visible image of the invisible God wo is the brightness of His glory). When the Lord would descend into the Tabernacle and Temple He came n a form called the Glory...the people could only look upon His brightness (shinning like the sun)...the brightness simply refers to that aspect of God which we can SEE and Hear...and this is a mystery (read carefully now and think about it)

Christ in John 5:37 tells us NO MAN has EVER seen the Father, neither have they HEARD HIS VOICE...

Okay re-read this and then think...who then was it that appeared unto many and spoke to many in the OT? Who is the I AM of Exodus 3? Read verse 1! Who appeared to Abraham, Jacob, Hagar, Manoah and His wife? This YHVH was seen and heard...this was the Memra (Word) who is YHVH the Son...

Jesus IS Jehovah (Yah'hoveh...the Lord who is) incarnate (in the flesh) who had come many times since eternity past (Micah 5:2,3) in diverse ways (as the shekinah, the pillar of fire and smoke, the Man who wrestled with Jacob, The Angel of the LORD, and many more)...and finally He came in the flesh to be THE ATONEMENT SACRIFICE to ransom us from bondage and by the Spirit re-birthing our human spirit (John 3:3-8) makes us a New Creation...God and man as one (echad, unified, not yachid or numerically one)...

That is enough food I am not sure you can digest too much at once...

The Lord bless...

In His love

Paul

 

[OzSpen]

Could someone explain Colossians 1:15-20 for me? It's confusing me a bit.
P.S. I'm using the NRSV version.

Here is a link to some 'Study notes on Colossians 1:15-20'. This deals very briefly with some of the major issues. Here is the IVP New Testament Commentary on Colossians 1:15-20.