Need clarification, please

[AdJesumPerMariam]

On another board, I received this explanation on OSAS...

If you're truly saved, then yes you can commit any sin you want. Paul wrote all things are lawful to me, but not expedient. We're not under the law anymore, but under grace. What a Christian should comprehend is that true Christians don't live in sin. And it doesn't matter whether it's murder or sexual immorality or theft or selfishness - it's all sin, whether in your opinion one sin is bigger than the other.

Is this accurate?

 

[novcncy]

On another board, I received this explanation on OSAS...



Is this accurate?

Well.....partly. I don't like the way it's worded at the top, because it makes salvation seem like a license to sin, which it most definitely is not. Hebrews is one of the best books to read because it relates Jesus' ministry on the cross to His true priesthood before God. If we could lose the salvation that Jesus had already obtained for us, then He would have to pay for it again. But the redemptive work is complete, and the price for all of humanity has been paid (not will be paid) once and for all. I cannot explain it better than God, so check out Hebrews, the whole book, but specifically chapters 9 and 10.

 

[eldermike]

It's accurate. We also get a new 'wanter", when we sin it's not due to our wants anymore, it's just our refusal to bury our dead man.

When you are saved you have victory over sin in Jesus, He paid the full and complete price for you and your sin, past, present and future.

You are saved because He get's the Glory for it!. You are saved because it brings Him joy!. You are saved because He planned it that way!. There is not one thing you can do to add to what He did on the cross.

Salvation is not a deal that we must keep some part of. Salvation is a gift, by the Grace of God alone we that deserved death are given life eternally.

 

[eldermike]

Well.....partly. I don't like the way it's worded at the top, because it makes salvation seem like a license to sin, which it most definitely is not. Hebrews is one of the best books to read because it relates Jesus' ministry on the cross to His true priesthood before God. If we could lose the salvation that Jesus had already obtained for us, then He would have to pay for it again. But the redemptive work is complete, and the price for all of humanity has been paid (not will be paid) once and for all. I cannot explain it better than God, so check out Hebrews, the whole book, but specifically chapters 9 and 10.

I agree with this also. I would also add the first chapter of Ephesians.

 

[Levi44]

On another board, I received this explanation on OSAS...



Is this accurate?

I am certain that it is not accurate - but will have someone else try to answer you - Hedi

 

[eldermike]

I am certain that it is not accurate - but will have someone else try to answer you - Hedi

You are certain it's not accurate, or certain you don't agree with it?

 

[Ant21]

Its in romans around chapter 8 I think. It is not a right or a pass to sin. have a read, this guy/girl seems to have taken it out of context. have a read and then breathe a sigh of relief.

 

[mesue]

Paul says in Romans:
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Jesus Christ went to the cross of Calvary to fulfill the law. We, who are saved, are not under the law but under grace. But this does not mean that we should go aroound sinning. We could, but what kind of testimony is that?
But, even if we did, we who are saved, still have a home in Heaven. We just don't get rewards.

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Matthew 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Our good deeds done, after salvation, on earth for the Lord is our treasure.

Each of us that are saved will recieve an award for all of our works that is tried by fire. That which remains is our treasure.

1Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I hope this was helpful.

 

[BT]

On another board, I received this explanation on OSAS...

If you're truly saved, then yes you can commit any sin you want. Paul wrote all things are lawful to me, but not expedient. We're not under the law anymore, but under grace. What a Christian should comprehend is that true Christians don't live in sin. And it doesn't matter whether it's murder or sexual immorality or theft or selfishness - it's all sin, whether in your opinion one sin is bigger than the other.

Is this accurate?

Actually it's a red herring. Which is to say, an argument that has nothing to do with the argument.

Whether or not you sin constantly has nothing to do with Eternal Security. The common argument that I hear against Eternal Security is this exact thing, "So I can just do whatever I want and be saved?" And really that argument has nothing to do with Eternal Security at all.

The problem in the above quote is an issue of sanctification not salvation.

Salvation is an immediate act of God that forever places you into His family, you are changed in position, in view, in status in God's eyes. You are adopted, cleansed and glorified (more comment on glorified in a minute).

When you are saved there is a three-fold miracle related to you and sin.

1. Saved - freed from the penalty of sin
2. Sanctified - freed from the power of sin
3. Glorified - freed from the presence of sin (future event, after death/rapture)

The first part is immediate and based upon the propitiation of Christ's blood. Henceforth, when you enter into the "beloved" (a cool word that!) you are seen through the covering of Christ's blood (read Hebrews 10).

The second part is an ongoing process. Sometimes it's faster for some people than others, but it doesn't mean that it isn't happening. When I was saved I dropped drinking, cussing, fighting all kinds of stuff immediately and never looked back. This was God's power working to sanctification in me. I've known others who are just as saved as me who have had to work on these things. Doesn't "mean" anything about their salvation, rather it tends toward their sanctification. With this comes Holy Spirit conviction. To move onward and upward in sanctification there are some things that you should be doing; God is not going to instantly make you perfect. There is a process involved. You WILL sin, because you live within a body of sin - your flesh.

The third part is a future event, but it is as good as done! Consider that God says you have been glorified though we understand that we have not yet. This is only hard to understand if you do not comprehend that God, who is eternal in nature and vision, "...even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. " Says a thing as though it had come to pass though it has not because when He says a thing it is a sure promise and as good as done!

So then also when God says you are saved and you have eternal life, He looks toward the future that you can't even fathom and sees that the thing is as good as done. A Christian, a true Christian, cannot lose his/her salvation. All you ever lose are your rewards! And though that might seem like a small thing to you now (because of a lack of eternal perspective and right understanding of God) it will be a huge thing to you in eternity. So no, you cannot lose your salvation but you can lose something precious!!

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Xaviere]

Is this accurate?

There is currently another thread that is discussing the thought of "Once Saved, Always Saved". (OSAS) The first thing to realize is that this phrase is improper in its connotations.

I think many look at Baptists that would improperly use this phrase to explain while they are able to sin. This is not the case. When we are saved, things change. Can you lose your salvation not? This is clearly pointed out in John 10. However, if anyone claims to be saved and there is no change and no Fruits are created then the question should rather be were they ever saved. It is not good enough to give mental ascent to Jesus as Lord and Savior you have to believe. As stated repeatedly ... even the demons know who Jesus is. (Garasene Demoniac).

As you will see in the post I linked OSAS is as silly saying it is all about "works". It is both! Yes, once you are truly saved you will have a desire to do things of the kingdom and if you stray, you will be convicted AND when you are doing things of the kingdom they show themselves in works that we do. HOWEVER, the works themselves DO NOT save us.... Belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of your life is what saves you.

I think it would be in the best interests of Christians not to use the coined phrase "Once Saved, Always Saved". It lends itself to ideals that are non-biblical and incorrect. Being saved is not a free ticket to continue in an improper lifestyle. Being saved is a conversion! It changes your "Want To's
"!

 

[cannibaltribe]

Actually it's a red herring. Which is to say, an argument that has nothing to do with the argument.

Whether or not you sin constantly has nothing to do with Eternal Security. The common argument that I hear against Eternal Security is this exact thing, "So I can just do whatever I want and be saved?" And really that argument has nothing to do with Eternal Security at all.

The problem in the above quote is an issue of sanctification not salvation.

Salvation is an immediate act of God that forever places you into His family, you are changed in position, in view, in status in God's eyes. You are adopted, cleansed and glorified (more comment on glorified in a minute).

When you are saved there is a three-fold miracle related to you and sin.

1. Saved - freed from the penalty of sin
2. Sanctified - freed from the power of sin
3. Glorified - freed from the presence of sin (future event, after death/rapture)

The first part is immediate and based upon the propitiation of Christ's blood. Henceforth, when you enter into the "beloved" (a cool word that!) you are seen through the covering of Christ's blood (read Hebrews 10).

The second part is an ongoing process. Sometimes it's faster for some people than others, but it doesn't mean that it isn't happening. When I was saved I dropped drinking, cussing, fighting all kinds of stuff immediately and never looked back. This was God's power working to sanctification in me. I've known others who are just as saved as me who have had to work on these things. Doesn't "mean" anything about their salvation, rather it tends toward their sanctification. With this comes Holy Spirit conviction. To move onward and upward in sanctification there are some things that you should be doing; God is not going to instantly make you perfect. There is a process involved. You WILL sin, because you live within a body of sin - your flesh.

The third part is a future event, but it is as good as done! Consider that God says you have been glorified though we understand that we have not yet. This is only hard to understand if you do not comprehend that God, who is eternal in nature and vision, "...even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. " Says a thing as though it had come to pass though it has not because when He says a thing it is a sure promise and as good as done!

So then also when God says you are saved and you have eternal life, He looks toward the future that you can't even fathom and sees that the thing is as good as done. A Christian, a true Christian, cannot lose his/her salvation. All you ever lose are your rewards! And though that might seem like a small thing to you now (because of a lack of eternal perspective and right understanding of God) it will be a huge thing to you in eternity. So no, you cannot lose your salvation but you can lose something precious!!

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

WOW BT!! That describes my experience to a tee!!! I wish someone had explained it to me this way many years ago...it sure would have saved me a couple of decades worth of suffering.

It sure is nice to have my feelings about this validated. I thought I wasn't actually saved until I felt the Holy Spirit of God..and I'll tell you what, he put a whammy on me. I had struggled and struggled and struggled with my sins (and let me tell you, I had some doosies). One night several months ago, I just fell on my face and cried out to God to heal me. I handed my (spiritual) burdens over to Jesus and told him that I believed and trusted him to carry them for me. I just poured my heart out and told him I didn't want to stop sinning and I couldn't stop on my own, but I wanted to be saved from myself. I handed it all over to him...and I felt the peace and love of something bigger than me come in and heal my wounded spirit.

Satan had me in his clutches for a very long time and I tried to fight him on my own. I understand now that it takes the power of the Holy Spirit living inside me to fight the spiritual battles I face. It was (and is) nothing less than a miraculous, supernatural event.

 

[Levi44]

You are certain it's not accurate, or certain you don't agree with it?

I am certain that it is not accurate - I don't believe we can just go on sinning and sinning - Hedi

 

[ZiSunka]

Once a woman came to one of DL Moody's tent meetings. Moody knew the woman and her way of life and had personally invited her to hear his sermon. After the meeting, the woman approached Moody and told him she thoroughly enjoyed the meeting, but she wasn't interested in getting saved because she loved to go out dancing and drinking and if she became a born-again believer she would have to give up what she loved. Moody told her, "Madame, you won't have to give up dancing and drinking if you become a Christian, you can do those just as much as your heart desires."

The woman got excited about that because she wanted to get saved, but she really didn't want to give up her vices. Right there and then she admitted that was a sinner in need of a savior, she believed that Christ was that savior, she confessed to him that she believed that and determined to have Christ as her Lord as well as her savior.

The next week, Moody held another tent meeting and this woman came again. When it was over, she went up to him and said, "Pastor, I think you tricked me. You said I could dance and drink as much as I want, but the truth is, I don't want to do those things anymore at all."

Moody told her that he now KNEW for sure she got saved because Christ's followers lose their desire to live sinfully.

 

[mesue]

Good story lambslove!!

I can be quite certain that my sins are forgiven. Even the ones I commited after I was saved.
1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Look at David A Man After God's Own Heart. I think he earned that title before he slept with Bathsheba and set up Uriah to be killed. And yet Psalm 51 speaks of the salvation of the Lord.
(Sorry, I just had to post the whole of it)
Psalm 51:1 <To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.> Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
Psalm 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
Psalm51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Psalm 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalm 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psalm 51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
Psalm 51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psalm 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Psalm 51:14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
Psalm 51:15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
Psalm 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Psalm 51:18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Psalm 51:19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

AMEN AMEN AMEN
This is an AWESOME thread! Great posts you guys!

 

[eldermike]

Once a woman came to one of DL Moody's tent meetings. Moody knew the woman and her way of life and had personally invited her to hear his sermon. After the meeting, the woman approached Moody and told him she thoroughly enjoyed the meeting, but she wasn't interested in getting saved because she loved to go out dancing and drinking and if she became a born-again believer she would have to give up what she loved. Moody told her, "Madame, you won't have to give up dancing and drinking if you become a Christian, you can do those just as much as your heart desires."

The woman got excited about that because she wanted to get saved, but she really didn't want to give up her vices. Right there and then she admitted that was a sinner in need of a savior, she believed that Christ was that savior, she confessed to him that she believed that and determined to have Christ as her Lord as well as her savior.

The next week, Moody held another tent meeting and this woman came again. When it was over, she went up to him and said, "Pastor, I think you tricked me. You said I could dance and drink as much as I want, but the truth is, I don't want to do those things anymore at all."

Moody told her that he now KNEW for sure she got saved because Christ's followers lose their desire to live sinfully.

This post is very good. We Baptists need not be afraid of the truth. We don't save people, nor do we change them. Our teaching is not what changes peoples actions, you can only teach those that are hungry based on God's Spirit within them. You can't decide to be good for Christ, otherwise we would just boast about it.


Great Baptist post!

 

[cygnusx1]

On another board, I received this explanation on OSAS...



Is this accurate?

In a sense yes , but in a sense no ........ it would be better to mention being handed over to Satan for the destruction of your flesh if you wilfully sin ............ so that your soul might be saved.... now that gives it a new kick doesn't it ....

 

[eldermike]

In a sense yes , but in a sense no ........ it would be better to mention being handed over to Satan for the destruction of your flesh if you wilfully sin ............ so that your soul might be saved.... now that gives it a new kick doesn't it ....

There still saved and that's the point of the OP.

It's not a teaching that leads people to sin. There are many teachers that have a need to connect freedom in Christ to freedom to sin but they will not connect in reality. It's a method of control of the flesh coming from teaching from the flesh. The key is "in Christ", and in that condition a person hates sin. We need not be afraid of leading people to sin if we lead them to Christ.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

When you are saved there is a three-fold miracle related to you and sin.

1. Saved - freed from the penalty of sin
2. Sanctified - freed from the power of sin
3. Glorified - freed from the presence of sin (future event, after death/rapture)

.

This is a great post BT. Can you post up some more scripture for this?
Thanks
GEL

 

[Levi44]

Thanks to a dear friend at CF, I have found the following;
ROM 6:1 "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

I believe we just cannot go on sinning over an over again. Hedi