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Need a quick course in Islam

Kris10leigh

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Hello! :wave:

My family just moved to a neighborhood that is about 50% Muslim, the other 50% Christian. My family is mostly Christian, though I personally lean more toward the Jewish faith, though I am not Jewish.

Our boys have befriended the kids across the street and I thought this would be a great learning opportunity for our kids, branching out and learning about other cultures. One of these neighbor kids approached me the other day in apparent shock that I knew he was Muslim. "And you're ok with that?" he said with a huge grin. I felt bad then and I wonder just how much opposition he runs into on a daily basis.

Then my son stood in my kitchen and asked me, as he often forgets, what's that religion my new friends are again? Jews? I told him no, they were Muslim. His response was "Oh, yeah. We hate Jews."

My first reaction was to come down hard on him for ever saying such things! Then I quickly remembered where this was coming from. So we had a quick discussion that I need more information on. I basically told him that in our family, we judge the person, not the religion and that we do not hate any group of people.

But this brings up so many questions! I know there is conflict between Israel and Muslims in the Middle East. But isn't that just political? Why does that carry over to another country entirely? Muslims at their purest belief, unless I am mistaken, believe in one God, the God of Abraham, the God of Jacob. Like Christianity, it broke off Judaism. How can any one faith so completely cut off its parent? I have the same question for many Christians, but I've never heard that Christians are taught to hate the Jews. Perhaps I'm just naive.

In any case, I was hoping to have some sort of discussion for the questions that I'm going to need to deal with for my children. And living in this neighborhood, am I making myself an unnecessary target if I put out the Menorah this year?
 

HumbleSiPilot77

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I know there is conflict between Israel and Muslims in the Middle East. But isn't that just political?
Does this sound political to you?

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 52:

Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Result: "Oh, yeah. We hate Jews."

Quick discourse in this matter is nearly impossible as there is 1380+ years worth of damage...

Muslims at their purest belief, unless I am mistaken, believe in one God, the God of Abraham, the God of Jacob. Like Christianity, it broke off Judaism. How can any one faith so completely cut off its parent?
So they say... But why does God of Abraham tell Israelites He makes a covenant with Isaac and then turn around tell Ishmaelites the opposite? Also this "breaking-off" business is a misconception.

I have the same question for many Christians, but I've never heard that Christians are taught to hate the Jews. Perhaps I'm just naive.
Christians do not know what to do with Jews. Some adore Christ's Jewish background therefore they love Israel and anything about it, some, being on the other extreme dislike Jews for what happened to Christ and their rejection of Him. I think a mild medium should be found. These are besides your point though.
And living in this neighborhood, am I making myself an unnecessary target if I put out the Menorah this year?

Are you living in the United States of America? If you do and you fear such thing, sorry to say that we have all failed to do our mission, military and law enforcement, to serve and protect people of the United States and the American way of life. I am ashamed I am hearing this. If I was living in that neighborhood, I would gladly present my flag and my religious observations, this ain't Saudi Arabia...
 
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SmileAndAHandshake

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The title of the thread says you need a quick course in Islam. I assumed that to mean you wanted to know about their overall belief system so you could be informed. Your post though seems to be only looking for very specific information rather than an overview of the belief system, so now I'm not sure :sorry:

I don't have the answers to your questions specifically asked above. However, if you are in a community where half the people are Muslim, and you'd like to learn a bit about what they believe on the whole, there are some great and concise resources out there.

This is one I have bookmarked though I haven't been there in awhile, hope it's still there: Intro to Islam

Perhaps if you'd like to know more as well, you could get to know the parents of your son's new friend(s) and converse with them :) Most people are happy to answer questions about their own religion to those who seem genuinely interested in the knowledge.

Cheers :)
 
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Philothei

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Soooo... your question is what ? why so much hatread and strifle? why can the three communiities Jews Christians and Mulsims live happy ever after under one political government? I am not sure what you are asking here.... There are three different religions all "abrahimic" supposed to be anyways.

I am not going to take one side here or the other.... for whatever it s worth I know that both the Jewish tradiiton and we see that from the Old Testament the Jews were given priveledged over the land. On the other hand the Islam is not doing any differently by saying that Allah told Mohamed that he is to 'wipe up" all infedels and establish the Islamic faith. The zionist part of the Hebrew nation is as imperialistic as the Muslim extremists. I do not truly see the difference.

Christianity is outside of the extremist outlook that both these religions can carry. Christ the founder first off never claimed to be a wordly leader nor he preached about "spreading the faith by the sword" .... Thus Christianity has to do with esoteric reality of each individual and less about any political or socioeconomic status. It has to do with the change of the heart and it is a personal commitment to God regardless how many indefels ones wins or if we are born of a certain nation... Salvation is for everyone.....who follows Christ. As far as those outside of the fold of Christ ..God is the ultimate judge not us it is stated clear from the Apostle.


Like Bushmaster Islam is not in its purest form proclaiming what we think it does... as the Koran disproves it.. About the relatonship between Chritians and Jews there has been stiffle in differnt instances...but in general not that much but extremists do seem to exist even there... in that group.

would or should you be putting a Menorah this year? ah... I do not know why would witnessing your faith and for the sake of your beliefs you even question that... I would not. As long as you know in your heart that there is no evil intent I do not see why that should be a problem :) at all :)

The way I see it is that the red bell goes up when you know that a religion has a more of a possibillity to exhibit "mob mentality" than the next one... :( and unfortunately judging from facts that is why Islam is so misstrusted... in our western society...
 
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Kris10leigh

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Are you living in the United States of America? If you do and you fear such thing, sorry to say that we have all failed to do our mission, military and law enforcement, to serve and protect people of the United States and the American way of life. I am ashamed I am hearing this. If I was living in that neighborhood, I would gladly present my flag and my religious observations, this ain't Saudi Arabia...

I do live in America, but we live very near a Muslim place of worship, so many happen to live here, giving us a much a greater Muslim population. It is rather part of my personality to display my loyalties in the face of opposition. But that changes when I start to worry about the safety of my children. I just don't know enough yet. I know the folks around here are fine with Christians. They kind of have to be. Jews are a different story given that they are pretty much non-existent around here.
 
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Kris10leigh

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The title of the thread says you need a quick course in Islam. I assumed that to mean you wanted to know about their overall belief system so you could be informed. Your post though seems to be only looking for very specific information rather than an overview of the belief system, so now I'm not sure :sorry:
I'm looking for both general and specific answers. :) It's one of those I-didn't-know-I-didn't-know kind of deals. I pride myself in being open minded, and now it seems I am being tested. I have a lot to learn. Simply given that I'm living in America, I'm guessing neighborhood of Muslims knows a lot more about Christianity than I know about Islam. I'd like to level the playing field so I know what I'm talking about when questions arise.

I don't have the answers to your questions specifically asked above. However, if you are in a community where half the people are Muslim, and you'd like to learn a bit about what they believe on the whole, there are some great and concise resources out there.
This is one I have bookmarked though I haven't been there in awhile, hope it's still there: Intro to Islam

Perhaps if you'd like to know more as well, you could get to know the parents of your son's new friend(s) and converse with them :) Most people are happy to answer questions about their own religion to those who seem genuinely interested in the knowledge.

Cheers :)
Definitely! This has been my plan all along! The kids are terrific. I haven't yet met the parents. We've only been here two weeks. One week was spent moving in and the second week was spent fighting H1N1. :doh: Not a good time for introducing oneself to the neighbors.
 
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canukian

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I do live in America, but we live very near a Muslim place of worship, so many happen to live here, giving us a much a greater Muslim population. It is rather part of my personality to display my loyalties in the face of opposition. But that changes when I start to worry about the safety of my children. I just don't know enough yet. I know the folks around here are fine with Christians. They kind of have to be. Jews are a different story given that they are pretty much non-existent around here.

there is a short answer. your children are in grave danger. you are naive, a lamb among wolves. that toothy grin your muslim neigbor gave you is a wolves grin. muslims are encoraged to lie to non muslims, to gain the upper hand.
Muhammad found lies to be useful not just in making it easier to kill his critics, but also to secure debt (Ibn Ishaq 770) and bring peace:
Allah's Apostle said] "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." (Bukhari 49:857)​
like you said the muslims have. you hit it when you said they pretty much have to be. when they gain power, islam says you become dhimmi, and are discriminated against and unduly taxed. google dhimmi. this is not alamism, it's the truth.
 
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Kris10leigh

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Sorry, Canukian, not buying it. I didn't mean to come hear to bash Muslims. Quite the opposite. I'm trying to understand why we are so different so that I know better how to respond to my children. I'd like to be able to say "Well, Muslims believe XYZ". I don't feel my children are in danger as Christians, not at all. (I'm a little fearful if they were to find out their mother held Jewish beliefs) Honestly, I think this is a great opportunity for more deep religious discussions with my children.
 
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Supreme

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I think Islam has more of a problems with zionists than Jews. Indeed, in many traditionally 'anti-semitic' countries such as Iran, the Jewish communities are not persecuted, and are even protected. Iran has more of a problem with Zionism than Judaism, despite thet fact it isn't actually an Arab country.
 
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humblemuslim

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Then my son stood in my kitchen and asked me, as he often forgets, what's that religion my new friends are again? Jews? I told him no, they were Muslim. His response was "Oh, yeah. We hate Jews."

My first reaction was to come down hard on him for ever saying such things! Then I quickly remembered where this was coming from. So we had a quick discussion that I need more information on. I basically told him that in our family, we judge the person, not the religion and that we do not hate any group of people.

But this brings up so many questions! I know there is conflict between Israel and Muslims in the Middle East. But isn't that just political? Why does that carry over to another country entirely? Muslims at their purest belief, unless I am mistaken, believe in one God, the God of Abraham, the God of Jacob. Like Christianity, it broke off Judaism. How can any one faith so completely cut off its parent? I have the same question for many Christians, but I've never heard that Christians are taught to hate the Jews. Perhaps I'm just naive.

In any case, I was hoping to have some sort of discussion for the questions that I'm going to need to deal with for my children. And living in this neighborhood, am I making myself an unnecessary target if I put out the Menorah this year?

Hello Kris10leigh :wave:

Take notice that all the posts so far avoid quoting the Qur'an (Though I am sure with the mention in this post they will be more than willing to quote single verses completely out of sync with the remaining dialogue surrounding the verse and completely incompatible with the remaining Qur'an verses or by citing misleading translations).

[2:132] Moreover, Abraham exhorted his children to do the same, and so did Jacob: "O my children, GOD has pointed out the religion for you; do not die except as submitters."

[2:135] They said, "You have to be Jewish or Christian, to be guided." Say, "We follow the religion of Abraham - monotheism - he never was an idol worshiper."

[2:217] They ask you about the Sacred Months and fighting therein: say, "Fighting therein is a sacrilege. However, repelling from the path of GOD and disbelieving in Him and in the sanctity of the Sacred Masjid, and evicting its people, are greater sacrileges in the sight of GOD. Oppression is worse than murder." They will always fight you to revert you from your religion, if they can. Those among you who revert from their religion, and die as disbelievers, have nullified their works in this life and the Hereafter. These are the dwellers of Hell, wherein they abide forever.

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

[3:19] The only religion approved by GOD is "Submission". Ironically, those who have received the scripture are the ones who dispute this fact, despite the knowledge they have received, due to jealousy. For such rejectors of GOD's revelations, GOD is most strict in reckoning.

[3:83] Are they seeking other than GOD's religion, when everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned?
[3:84] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."
[3:85] Anyone who accepts other than Submission as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be with the losers.


[4:46] Among those who are Jewish, some distort the words beyond the truth, and they say, "We hear, but we disobey," and "Your words are falling on deaf ears," and "Raa'ena (be our shepherd)," as they twist their tongues to mock the religion. Had they said, "We hear, and we obey," and "We hear you," and "Unzurna (watch over us)," it would have been better for them, and more righteous. Instead, they have incurred condemnation from GOD due to their disbelief. Consequently, the majority of them cannot believe.


[4:125] Who is better guided in his religion than one who submits totally to GOD, leads a righteous life, according to the creed of Abraham: monotheism? GOD has chosen Abraham as a beloved friend.


[4:144] O you who believe, you shall not ally yourselves with the disbelievers, instead of the believers. Do you wish to provide GOD with a clear proof against you?
[4:145] The hypocrites will be committed to the lowest pit of Hell, and you will find no one to help them.
[4:146] Only those who repent, reform, hold fast to GOD, and devote their religion absolutely to GOD alone, will be counted with the believers. GOD will bless the believers with a great recompense.


[5:55] Your real allies are GOD and His messenger, and the believers who observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they bow down.
[5:56] Those who ally themselves with GOD and His messenger, and those who believed, belong in the party of GOD; absolutely, they are the victors.
[5:57] O you who believe, do not befriend those among the recipients of previous scripture who mock and ridicule your religion, nor shall you befriend the disbelievers. You shall reverence GOD, if you are really believers.
[5:58] When you call to the Contact Prayers (Salat), they mock and ridicule it. This is because they are people who do not understand.


[9:12] If they violate their oaths after pledging to keep their covenants, and attack your religion, you may fight the leaders of paganism - you are no longer bound by your covenant with them - that they may refrain.
[9:13] Would you not fight people who violated their treaties, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear, if you are believers.
[9:14] You shall fight them, for GOD will punish them at your hands, humiliate them, grant you victory over them, and cool the chests of the believers.



[60:1] O you who believe, you shall not befriend My enemies and your enemies, extending love and friendship to them, even though they have disbelieved in the truth that has come to you. They persecute the messenger, and you, just because you believe in GOD, your Lord. If you mobilize to struggle in My cause, seeking My blessings, how can you secretly love them? I am fully aware of everything you conceal, and everything you declare. Those among you who do this have indeed strayed off the right path.
[60:2] Whenever they encounter you, they treat you as enemies, and hurt you with their hands and tongues. They want you to disbelieve.



[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.
[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.






----------------------------------------------------


You want a quick run down of what Islam is all about? Submission to God. And do not let the translations that deceptively translate submission and submitters as Islam and muslims lead you off course. Notice Abraham is quoted as telling his children to be submitters. Muhammad, and thereof Islam as a religion as it is practiced today, did not exist then. The Qur'an is quite clear that the true religion is the one that submits to God. The way some people are practicing Islam today is far from that.

And as submitters we follow what has been revealed to us. It is said in the Qur'an to not befriend/ally those who mock/attack the religion of submission to God. But those who do not mock/attack our religion, they can be befriend and treated equitably. The mentality of "I hate all Jews" is far from this teaching.

You will find disbelievers and people of the book (Christians and Jews) citing examples of hypocrisy as though it were a true representation of this religion of submission. Though the very guide for this religion in our time, the Qur'an, clearly labels such peoples and actions are wrong and hypocritical. They do not take heed, as they are too focused on their rejection and at times hatred of the religion of submission. Without such tactics they would not be able to lead people away from the truth. It takes lies, misunderstandings, and misinformation, coming from those who claim righteousness, to deviate others from the true path.

You will also find them citing the recognized texts of men, Hadith, as though they are equal to or superior to the word of the Qur'an. If they wish to place their faith there, that is their business, though it be misplaced. They of course cite hypocrites in large numbers as support for their usage, not quite solid grounds to stand on when they are discussing the religion itself.

I am currently working on a project that you may be interested in. Though given the painstaking research and attention to detail it takes, I forecast it will take me another 10 years at the very least. The project requires me to study each and every verse in the Qur'an and piece together a complete meaning that is consistent through and through. This task would be much easier if the translations available were more reliable, but alas they are not. You will find some translations are good in some areas and weak in others. In the end anyone seriously wanting the true message is just going to have to translate the text for themselves using the present translations as a guide, lexicons and dictionaries, and of course grammatical texts as well.

Now I will say the main message of the Qur'an is conveyed in these distorted translations. Though sometimes the reader must be cautious.
 
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b&wpac4

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humblemuslim, I am sure if more people in the world thought the way you did, we've have a great amount of peace between people.

I attended a Muslim funeral last month when my uncle, who had converted from Christianity to Islam, passed away. I found the people there to be friendly and more than happy to explain their religion, but I will admit I did not tell them of my religious beliefs because I didn't know how they would react to me. Now, that was my own hesitation and I have no idea if they would have reacted badly or not, but still the fear was there.
 
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canukian

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humblemuslim, I am sure if more people in the world thought the way you did, we've have a great amount of peace between people.

I attended a Muslim funeral last month when my uncle, who had converted from Christianity to Islam, passed away. I found the people there to be friendly and more than happy to explain their religion, but I will admit I did not tell them of my religious beliefs because I didn't know how they would react to me. Now, that was my own hesitation and I have no idea if they would have reacted badly or not, but still the fear was there.

ya. im sure that gay people who go to muslim countries are a little shy too.
 
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humblemuslim

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humblemuslim, I am sure if more people in the world thought the way you did, we've have a great amount of peace between people.

I attended a Muslim funeral last month when my uncle, who had converted from Christianity to Islam, passed away. I found the people there to be friendly and more than happy to explain their religion, but I will admit I did not tell them of my religious beliefs because I didn't know how they would react to me. Now, that was my own hesitation and I have no idea if they would have reacted badly or not, but still the fear was there.

I understand completely. Some muslims, or people claiming such, scare even me, though I submit to God and accept the Qur'an. I have seen good muslims and bad ones. The problem is how do you know which ones you have come across until you have tested them. Sometimes such a test can be fatal depending on whom you have come face to face with.

What is ironic is believers in God turn out to be their own worst enemies as they walk around under different banners, titles, beliefs, and identities. Because let's face it. The people who really don't believe anything typically do not care enough to do anything about it. It is the faith inspired man that wields a very unpredictable and dangerous attitude. Without proper care it can lead a man to do things contrary to the very teachings he has sworn to uphold.

Some information is best kept private I suppose.
 
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Kris10leigh

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Ignore these who got nothing better to do then bash Islam

ask me all your questions and I'll try to answer them all.

So many questions, thank you! ;)

My first question is, what exactly is the Qur'an? For instance, I know the relationship between the Jewish Tanakh and the Christian Bible is that the Tanakh is basically the first five books of Christian Old testament. (Oops, that's Torah. B&W corrects me in a later post) Is there such a way I can relate to the Qur'an? Do Muslims uphold the Tanakh? Do you consider Judaism the father of Islam the way Christians view it as the father of Christianity? (Ok, so that's more than one question.)
 
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Kris10leigh

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Humblemuslim, thank you so much for your post!

You want a quick run down of what Islam is all about? Submission to God. And do not let the translations that deceptively translate submission and submitters as Islam and muslims lead you off course. Notice Abraham is quoted as telling his children to be submitters. Muhammad, and thereof Islam as a religion as it is practiced today, did not exist then. The Qur'an is quite clear that the true religion is the one that submits to God. The way some people are practicing Islam today is far from that.

If this is the heart of Islam, and from what little I have read, it truly is, why then are we so different? It took me a year's worth of hard dialogue to finally find the answer of why this is true between Judaism and Christianity. It's a hard concept to wrap one's brain around. Why is there so much strife between these three major religions? (Islam, Judaism, Christianity)


And as submitters we follow what has been revealed to us. It is said in the Qur'an to not befriend/ally those who mock/attack the religion of submission to God. But those who do not mock/attack our religion, they can be befriend and treated equitably. The mentality of "I hate all Jews" is far from this teaching.
I agree with this completely! I too wish that more people thought as you do. I basically told my children we don't hate any one group of people. All three of these major religions worship and submit to God, and in my perhaps crazy opinion, the Jews and the Muslims seem to have more in common as far as who we believe God is (the nature of God).

You will find disbelievers and people of the book (Christians and Jews) citing examples of hypocrisy as though it were a true representation of this religion of submission. Though the very guide for this religion in our time, the Qur'an, clearly labels such peoples and actions are wrong and hypocritical. They do not take heed, as they are too focused on their rejection and at times hatred of the religion of submission. Without such tactics they would not be able to lead people away from the truth. It takes lies, misunderstandings, and misinformation, coming from those who claim righteousness, to deviate others from the true path.

And since writing this post, I have found that one member of this family has converted to Islam and perhaps has some misguided hatred leftover from past experiences. I can respect that.
 
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b&wpac4

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So many questions, thank you! ;)

My first question is, what exactly is the Qur'an? For instance, I know the relationship between the Jewish Tanakh and the Christian Bible is that the Tanakh is basically the first five books of Christian Old testament. Is there such a way I can relate to the Qur'an? Do Muslims uphold the Tanakh? Do you consider Judaism the father of Islam the way Christians view it as the father of Christianity? (Ok, so that's more than one question.)

The Torah is the first five books, the Tanakh is the entire Old Testament. :)
 
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