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HypnoToad

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First, it depends what you mean by "natural".

Anyway, if animals do it, then it may be natural for animals. That doesn't mean it's natural for people.

Now, this point often comes up in the discussion of homosexuality. Some proponents of it have claimed it IS natural, because certain animals do it. Their claim is irrelevent, because certain animals also kill their mates and eat their own offspring or kill the offspring of competing neighbors. Despite being "natural" to animals, those things are typically viewed as wrong for people to do also.
 
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Phil4987

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Exactly here are some other things animals do.

Incest
suicide
pointless killing of other animals
eating their own young
and many other disturbing things

We do everything animals do and more. Cetaceans don't eat their young, although it is speculated they commit suicide when they're depressed.
 
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Brieuse

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If animals do it does that mean it's natural?

Is what is natural right?
It is natural for animals yes. I have heard various arguments that humans are just animals too. However I disagree that it is as simple as that.
 
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davedjy

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Love is very natural

Are condoms natural?
Is Birth control natural?
What about other contraceptives?

Nonetheless, they go ignored, except for some of the harcore Catholics in here, that follow their doctrine.

The way love is expressed to others doesn't have to be about what YOU perceive is natural.
 
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david_x

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Are condoms natural?
Is Birth control natural?
What about other contraceptives?

No.
No.
No.

We do everything animals do and more. Cetaceans don't eat their young, although it is speculated they commit suicide when they're depressed.

I'm not sure what your trying to say, i didn't mention Cetaceans.
 
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ThyNeighbor

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If animals do it does that mean it's natural?

Is what is natural right?

What is natural is not necessarily right. It can be right and it can be wrong.

However, because homosexuality exists in nature it should dispell the idea that it is some kind of arbitrary "choice" since animals act on instinct.
 
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davedjy

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What is natural is not necessarily right. It can be right and it can be wrong.

However, because homosexuality exists in nature it should dispell the idea that it is some kind of arbitrary "choice" since animals act on instinct.
It's also the way the sheep show their love and acceptance to the others, and as mentioned if they don't do the act, they are considered an outcast.
 
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david_x

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However, because homosexuality exists in nature it should dispell the idea that it is some kind of arbitrary "choice" since animals act on instinct.

Lemings instictivly run off cliffs to kill themselves.
Pigs instintivly sit on, kill, and eat their offspring.
Cats instinctivly reproduce with siblings and parents.

Those are choices we make.
 
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davedjy

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Lemings instictivly run off cliffs to kill themselves.
Pigs instintivly sit on, kill, and eat their offspring.
Cats instinctivly reproduce with siblings and parents.

Those are choices we make.
You cannot use killing as an example to be compared here, this is love they are showing to each other, not killing, which would be the opposite or if for food/survival.
 
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Der Alte

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You cannot use killing as an example to be compared here, this is love they are showing to each other, not killing, which would be the opposite or if for food/survival.

Why not, don't you constantly try to use the example of slavery, mixed clothing, treatment of women as an argument against the Biblical condemnation of homosexual activity?
 
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david_x

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You cannot use killing as an example to be compared here, this is love they are showing to each other, not killing, which would be the opposite or if for food/survival.

Spiders show love by eating their partner.
Cats instinctivly reproduce with siblings and parents.
Lions lovingly kill their wives chidren when taking over.

They are all basic instincts and the "feeling" behind them is irrelivent. Mostly because animals do not show emotion. It can be translated as emotion but it is instinct.
 
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davedjy

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Why not, don't you constantly try to use the example of slavery, mixed clothing, treatment of women as an argument against the Biblical condemnation of homosexual activity?
Well let's see...you clearly are condemning a minority group by isolating a specific sex act, since there isn't any information in the Bible about an orientation. Let's isolate a sex act, since there isn't any talk of anything else, so we know you lose on historical facts alone, Mr. Scholar boy! LOLOLOL Pwned!!!!!!!!!
 
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david_x

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I hate to remind you but we are all a minority here.

It's also the way the sheep show their love and acceptance to the others, and as mentioned if they don't do the act, they are considered an outcast.

Turns out humans do not show "acceptence" by mating. We shake hands, maybe hug.
 
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davedjy

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I hate to remind you but we are all a minority here.



Turns out humans do not show "acceptence" by mating. We shake hands, maybe hug.
OK, I'm talking about two humans that are in love, not what you are saying.
 
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