National Service

[B®ent]

Should able-bodied males be required to perform some kind of National service, whether it be in the professional military, or in a Militia?

 

[Eye]

I think everyone men and women should serve at least 2 years after HS..

 

[MezzaMorta]

They got this in Italy. Though they got rid of it for some proviences, I’m from Sicily so we are still obligated to serve in one of the branches of the military.

I had to go back for 5 months to do my training and 3 months of service, I chose the Navy and it was pretty fun actually. Training was easy, they were not very serious about it. We pretty much did some physical training, ate a lot of really good food (it was like a giant buffet) and learned some of the basics like drill, military protocol and some things specific to our jobs.

I got assigned to be the communications officer so I had to learn all the protocol for operating that stuff and the “lingo” and such, kind of boring in practice. All I do is sit on the bridge and relay the orders or messages to the officer in command. But at least I get a nice chair.

Then the 3 months of service we had to do after our training was easier than the training. We only left port for 3 days and that was to sail over to France where we just sat in the port there for 3 weeks so pretty much we just went off the ship eveynight to go to the casinos and night clubs.

And they gave us money everynight when we were in France to go off and do what ever we wanted with. Mostly gamble and get drunk.

 

[B®ent]

I think everyone men and women should serve at least 2 years after HS..

I agree young men should serve. I disagree that young women should serve. There would be other fields of service reserved for young women; carrying a gun and possibly being sent to war is not one of them.

 

[MezzaMorta]

I agree young men should serve. I disagree that young women should serve. There would be other fields of service reserved for young women; carrying a gun and possibly being sent to war is not one of them.

Why not? Women are just as capable as men. The marine captain on the ship that I served on was a women. And something went down I know for a fact she would be the first person I would want on my side.

She beat the crap out of some huge French dude in Monaco with like two punches and in Bosnia she and two other people in her unit got separated from the main force and came under attack from Serbian militias. She and two other people single handly fought off over 40 Serbians killing over 30 of them. She has a picture of her standing beside the pile of bodies they piled up after the battle.

 

[B®ent]

Why not? Women are just as capable as men. The marine captain on the ship that I served on was a women. And something went down I know for a fact she would be the first person I would want on my side.

She beat the crap out of some huge French dude in Monaco with like two punches and in Bosnia she and two other people in her unit got separated from the main force and came under attack from Serbian militias. She and two other people single handly fought off over 40 Serbians killing over 30 of them. She has a picture of her standing beside the pile of bodies they piled up after the battle.

The point is, MOST women are physically weaker than MOST men. I am a fairly weak male, yet I am much stronger than most women. This is a difference between the sexes which should be respected not ignored. God created us differently.

In the Bible, I find only one instance where a woman fought in a war, and that was only because the Israelite men refused to do their duty.

 

[MezzaMorta]

The point is, MOST women are physically weaker than MOST men

And? Doesn’t take much strength to pull a trigger.

I am a fairly weak male, yet I am much stronger than most women.

Congratulations.

This is a difference between the sexes which should be respected not ignored. God created us differently.

This is a difference between the races which should be respected not ignored. God created us differently

Discrimination with spots instead of stripes is still discrimination.

God did create us different, how ever women have two arms just like men, they have two legs just like men, they are intelligent just like men and fully capable of performing all the duties necessary to serve in the military just like men.

In the Bible, I find only one instance where a woman fought in a war, and that was only because the Israelite men refused to do their duty.

That’s great, what does the bible have to do with women serving in the military though?

 

[B®ent]

MezzaMorta,

Is Ephesians chapter five also "discriminatory"?

[bible]Ephesians 5:22-33[/bible]

There is nothing wrong with recognizing the differences between the sexes. Men are better equiped for battle -- this is a biological and psychologic fact you surely cannot deny. Women are best suited to behind-the-line work, such as military hospitals. Other than that, their roles include bearing children, raising children, and being supportive, submissive wives to their husbands. Women are nurturers, not killers!

 

[MezzaMorta]

Is Ephesians chapter five also "discriminatory"?

Outdated would be more the word I would use to apply to that.

There is nothing wrong with recognizing the differences between the sexes. Men are better equiped for battle -- this is a biological and psychologic fact you surely cannot deny.

It is a fact that women handle pressure far better than men. Women in battle are much more capable of handling the pressure and stress, and at considerably lower chance of developing PTSD.

And how are men better equipped for battle? Maybe back in the day when we were swinging around swords…. But today most men and women can easily meet the required physical requirements to effectively serve in a military unit of any nature including combat arms.

Women are best suited to behind-the-line work, such as military hospitals.

Women constitute over 3 billion people on this earth. There is a large variety of them. Each one of them is best suited for something different. I’m sure there are plenty that are best suited to work behind the lines (as many men) and there are just as well many that are best suited to be in the infantry.

Other than that, their roles are bearing children, raising children, and being a supportive, submissive wife to their husband

Marriage is an equal partnership, no one is submissive. It is a 50/50 split.

 

[justanobserver]

I almost picked "no" but went with "other" instead. Unless there is a WW3 or a major national emergency that would require the use of total mobilization of the military, I dont believe in mandatory service. If such was about to happen, then instate the draft.

At one time in my life, I did believe in it - mandatory service. Everyone would/should serve, my children would serve, etc. After almost 20 yrs active service, I view some things differently now based on my experiences, years of service, etc. I am proud of my service and if I could, I would still be in, back in the infantry (am a grunt at heart).

As for women serving in a combat unit: I aint gonna comment on what I have read here but I, in my own opinion only, fully believe that if a woman wants to be a grunt - let her. no man should decide who is capable of fighting or not. I know and have served under female officers that I would have gone into comabt any day with and male officers that I would not follow out of a burning latrine with the door right in front of me.

just my view only.

just for thought: since this is not a debate forum and cant really voice thoughts in rebuttal about one's interpretation of a woman's role in life, perhaps the OP might start a thread in Ethics forum about women serving and how they ought to serve???

I might post a thought or two there.

 

[B®ent]

Outdated would be more the word I would use to apply to that.

Why do you even bother reading the Bible, then?

It is a fact that women handle pressure far better than men. Women in battle are much more capable of handling the pressure and stress, and at considerably lower chance of developing PTSD.

I don't believe you.

And how are men better equipped for battle? Maybe back in the day when we were swinging around swords…. But today most men and women can easily meet the required physical requirements to effectively serve in a military unit of any nature including combat arms.

Soldiers don't carry only a gun. They have to wear body armor, too, which can be very heavy. Men are much more physically and emotionally suited for warfare. Women are, according to 1 Peter 3:7, the "weaker vessel" -- this is a difference which ought to be respected.

Women constitute over 3 billion people on this earth. There is a large variety of them. Each one of them is best suited for something different. I’m sure there are plenty that are best suited to work behind the lines (as many men) and there are just as well many that are best suited to be in the infantry.

There are some women who are more capable of battle than some men. But 'some' does not equal a majority, or even a large number. Warfare is a man's duty. It's Biblical and should always be the law.

Marriage is an equal partnership, no one is submissive. It is a 50/50 split.

Wrong. The Bible says it is equal, but each partner has their own roles. The role of the wife is to be submissive and respectful. The role of the husband is to be loving and protective. If you don't believe this, I suggest you start reading your Bible.

Regards,
Brent

 

[cenimo]

We should have a draft, based on the German / Swiss / Israeli models.

In Germany, at least when it was West Germany, the day a guy is 18 it's Happy Birthday and see y in 18months. They were usually stationed close to home.
In Switzerland people do some active duty and then are in the reserves until they're 65, 1st reserve, 2nd reserve, etc...

But here's why we should have a draft - under a volunteer system, the general attitude of the public is, "Well, that's what they volunteered for", regardless of wherever the troops are being sent or whatever they are being sent into.

With a draft, when anyone (for this discussion, males) is liable to go, people's sons, fathers, brothers, etc, suddenly the public attitude shows a lot more concern for political situations that may involve sending the military.

The Viet Nam generation grew up asking their fathers and uncles, "What did you do in the war, daddy".
The childeren of the Viet Nam generation asked their fathers and uncles, "How did you duck the draft, daddy?"

Pathetic.

 

[B®ent]

We should have a draft, based on the German / Swiss / Israeli models.

In Germany, at least when it was West Germany, the day a guy is 18 it's Happy Birthday and see y in 18months. They were usually stationed close to home.
In Switzerland people do some active duty and then are in the reserves until they're 65, 1st reserve, 2nd reserve, etc...

I support both models. One year of training in the professional army, and membership in the Militia until the age of 55. They would have an assault rifle in their possession and attend meetings perhaps four or five times per year.

 

[MezzaMorta]

I don't believe you.

It is scientifically proven that on average women’s bodies handle stressful situations much better and women also have a considerably higher level of tolerance to pain.

They have to wear body armor, too, which can be very heavy.

15-20lbs on average. And on the ruck marches we did carrying a 140lbs rucksack none of the women (who were about 50% of our course) dropped out or preformed any less than any of the men.

Making arguments based on strength is stupid given the fact that strength is not dependent on sex.

Men are much more physically and emotionally suited for warfare. Women are, according to 1 Peter 3:7, the "weaker vessel" -- this is a difference which ought to be respected.

Well kind of Peter to say so, how ever on both front, emotional and physical women are just as capable and suited for battle. This is proven historically, scientifically and practically.

Warfare is a man's duty. It's Biblical and should always be the law.

I’m starting to think you have some kind of infeority complex here. What is with your need to degrade women and establish them as “weaker” to you?

No offence buddy but by the looks of you I can think of a lot, and by a lot I mean hundreds of women who in a war I rather have fighting beside me than you. Just because you are a man does not mean you are better suited for “battle”

Wrong. The Bible says it is equal, but each partner has their own roles. The role of the wife is to be submissive and respectful. The role of the husband is to be loving and protective. If you don't believe this, I suggest you start reading your Bible.

Don’t know where you expect to find a woman that is going to do that… unless they are offering mail order brides form Saudi Arabia now.

It’s the 21st century, women aren’t expected to be bare foot, pregnant standing in front of the stove anymore.

 

[SH89]

I agree with justanobserver. Unless there is another wold war, I think we should maintain an all-volunteer military.

1)An all-volunteer military is a willing and motivated force.

We(the US) have the biggest all-volunteer military in the world, so manpower is not a problem for the US military.

 

[dignitized]

Should able-bodied males be required to perform some kind of National service, whether it be in the professional military, or in a Militia?

I would hesitate to require it - but I would have no problem with encouraging it.

 

[cenimo]

SH89

so manpower is not a problem for the US military.

Then why are they calling personnel back, not meeting their recruiting goals (Army), and upping the enlistment age?

 

[dignitized]

JUST A REMINDER:
This is
NOT
a debate forum.
​

 

[B®ent]

What is with your need to degrade women and establish them as “weaker” to you?

No offence buddy but by the looks of you I can think of a lot,

Pulling the looks card, eh? That's reeeal mature of you.

Not to mention it's not based on reality. The fact is, I've been asked out by girls who even you would "rate" as a 7/10, and I'm being conservative here. You accuse me of being a chauvinist? I am not the one judging women solely by their appearance as you do. I do not "rate" girls as being 6/10 and tell them it's a compliment!

In conclusion, you really need to GET OVER yourself.

As for your "facts," I suggest you back them up with sources.
You can post them in another forum if you wish... not here, as this apparently isn't a debate forum.

Thanks...

"Israel was formed at the expense of the Palestinian people and their rights. For us, this existence is immoral and illegitimate, because it creates great hardship and suffering for a downtrodden people. And all this is so Europeans can ease their own guilt about what they did to the Jews."

Ah, an Anti-Semite. Wonderful...

 

[SH89]

SH89



Then why are they calling personnel back, not meeting their recruiting goals (Army), and upping the enlistment age?

Well, I'm not in the Military(yet), so my statement was perhaps inaccurate. I just based my statement on the current size of the US Military.