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National Secular Society threatens legal action over parking privilege for Christians
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<blockquote data-quote="non-religious" data-source="post: 58677186" data-attributes="member: 103142"><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">I'm just looking for specific examples of "spiritual" persecution...</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">I don't, nor have ever, disputed the fact that Christians are being persecuted in many parts of the world...</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Again with this term "spiritual", I'm looking for specifics.....</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Where? There was recently a media frenzy about this because a lady who worked as a air hostess wanted to wear her cross, but was asked not to, due to uniform policy. I think it is too easy to blow these stories way out of proportion and then claim that this is just the tip of the iceberg. The "I know somebody" argument doesn't constitute persecution on a grand scale..</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">That has absolutely nothing to do with persecution and everything to do with living in and appeasing a largely secular constituent. You will celebrate specific Christian days in a totally different way to many other groups/faiths etc.. That is part of what makes society different. However, I do agree that the re-naming of certain festivals/dates is both an entire waste of money and time, but perhaps certain councils have more time and resources than others. I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised by such actions in this day and age.. As a Christian I recognize how important the resurrection story is, but I don't expect commercial businesses, councils, elected politicians and the average Joe on the street to view Easter in terms of a brutal crucifixion and risen Lord and Saviour, even though many obviously do..</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">So then as a Christian, be proud of the fact you don't respond like an extreme minority of Islamic fundamentalists would. What on earth does the watershed have to do with persecuting Christians? It all comes back to the O.P. This is a society driven by a largely ungodly, fleshly and worldly outlook (secularism encompasses many of those traits). The fact that you as a believer can switch off the television or refuse to listen to people mocking Jesus and in a sense turn the other cheek, aptly demonstrates a level of maturity in your faith. You're in effect doing as Christ instructed. That's something to be commended...</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">This argument is deeply flawed. If I as a white male (I'm not, by the way) hold views and deep seated opinions on issues relating to my dislike of minorities and had to work alongside said minorities. I would have to tolerant, would have to show some level of respect and would, like you, expect that level of tolerance to be reciprocated. Even though I strongly disagree with minorities as a people. If I stated to my boss that I don't want to work alongside black people, I would get fired immediately. In other words, as human beings we have to be tolerant of differing belief systems and ideologies. We can find them repugnant, abhorrent, fascinating etc... but no-one should want to go around their place of work, university etc.. exposing their dislike for specific things</span>, <span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Knowing it will upset and offend others. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">I appreciate in relation to one's faith that can be difficult, but are you suggesting that there shouldn't be homosexuals in your workplace? Are you suggesting that you should be able to tell "somebody" that your not happy or disapproving of homosexuals? I'm really not getting what you're so unhappy about here...</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Because your employer holds a different world view to you? Why offended by that?</span></p><p style="text-align: right"></p> <p style="text-align: right"></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">That's a good point, but I'm not sure secularism is at fault here. This is more to do with how people interpret scripture, view Jesus and live their lives.. I do believe scripture is clear cut about these issues, but I can't speak for those who are homosexual and Christian. They can face enough discrimination as it is</span>, <span style="font-family: 'Arial'">without the Church also be being openly hostile..</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Maybe I missed the memo, but where have we ended up? You have given a couple of instances of what I consider nothing more than propaganda. You haven't even remotely described how "spiritual", let alone physical, persecution has impacted detrimentally upon Christians in the UK. A few local newspaper articles here and there, a comment about the ridiculous name changing of certain "Christian" events, the old "I know someone" routine and the state of the Church.. I requested specifics and all you have done is pontificate about television, your lack of being able to voice your opinion (which I find somewhat misleading) and an old news story about a woman not being able to wear a piece of jewellery..</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">All of the above only highlights the consequences of living in a secular society. There are a multitude of reasons for why the Church is dealing with these issues. I have left Churches because of poor teaching, I celebrate Easter as a Christian, I am tolerant of others, to the point of being respectful, even when I could so easily articulate my opinions. I don't take offense when someone doesn't believe in Jesus or feels the need to mock my faith. As I previously mentioned, imo there are bigger issues. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Yep, hook, line and sinker <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="non-religious, post: 58677186, member: 103142"] [FONT=Arial]I'm just looking for specific examples of "spiritual" persecution...[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]I don't, nor have ever, disputed the fact that Christians are being persecuted in many parts of the world...[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Again with this term "spiritual", I'm looking for specifics.....[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Where? There was recently a media frenzy about this because a lady who worked as a air hostess wanted to wear her cross, but was asked not to, due to uniform policy. I think it is too easy to blow these stories way out of proportion and then claim that this is just the tip of the iceberg. The "I know somebody" argument doesn't constitute persecution on a grand scale..[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]That has absolutely nothing to do with persecution and everything to do with living in and appeasing a largely secular constituent. You will celebrate specific Christian days in a totally different way to many other groups/faiths etc.. That is part of what makes society different. However, I do agree that the re-naming of certain festivals/dates is both an entire waste of money and time, but perhaps certain councils have more time and resources than others. I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised by such actions in this day and age.. As a Christian I recognize how important the resurrection story is, but I don't expect commercial businesses, councils, elected politicians and the average Joe on the street to view Easter in terms of a brutal crucifixion and risen Lord and Saviour, even though many obviously do..[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]So then as a Christian, be proud of the fact you don't respond like an extreme minority of Islamic fundamentalists would. What on earth does the watershed have to do with persecuting Christians? It all comes back to the O.P. This is a society driven by a largely ungodly, fleshly and worldly outlook (secularism encompasses many of those traits). The fact that you as a believer can switch off the television or refuse to listen to people mocking Jesus and in a sense turn the other cheek, aptly demonstrates a level of maturity in your faith. You're in effect doing as Christ instructed. That's something to be commended...[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]This argument is deeply flawed. If I as a white male (I'm not, by the way) hold views and deep seated opinions on issues relating to my dislike of minorities and had to work alongside said minorities. I would have to tolerant, would have to show some level of respect and would, like you, expect that level of tolerance to be reciprocated. Even though I strongly disagree with minorities as a people. If I stated to my boss that I don't want to work alongside black people, I would get fired immediately. In other words, as human beings we have to be tolerant of differing belief systems and ideologies. We can find them repugnant, abhorrent, fascinating etc... but no-one should want to go around their place of work, university etc.. exposing their dislike for specific things[/FONT], [FONT=Arial]Knowing it will upset and offend others. I appreciate in relation to one's faith that can be difficult, but are you suggesting that there shouldn't be homosexuals in your workplace? Are you suggesting that you should be able to tell "somebody" that your not happy or disapproving of homosexuals? I'm really not getting what you're so unhappy about here... [/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Because your employer holds a different world view to you? Why offended by that?[/FONT] [RIGHT] [/RIGHT] [FONT=Arial]That's a good point, but I'm not sure secularism is at fault here. This is more to do with how people interpret scripture, view Jesus and live their lives.. I do believe scripture is clear cut about these issues, but I can't speak for those who are homosexual and Christian. They can face enough discrimination as it is[/FONT], [FONT=Arial]without the Church also be being openly hostile..[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Maybe I missed the memo, but where have we ended up? You have given a couple of instances of what I consider nothing more than propaganda. You haven't even remotely described how "spiritual", let alone physical, persecution has impacted detrimentally upon Christians in the UK. A few local newspaper articles here and there, a comment about the ridiculous name changing of certain "Christian" events, the old "I know someone" routine and the state of the Church.. I requested specifics and all you have done is pontificate about television, your lack of being able to voice your opinion (which I find somewhat misleading) and an old news story about a woman not being able to wear a piece of jewellery..[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]All of the above only highlights the consequences of living in a secular society. There are a multitude of reasons for why the Church is dealing with these issues. I have left Churches because of poor teaching, I celebrate Easter as a Christian, I am tolerant of others, to the point of being respectful, even when I could so easily articulate my opinions. I don't take offense when someone doesn't believe in Jesus or feels the need to mock my faith. As I previously mentioned, imo there are bigger issues. [/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Yep, hook, line and sinker :)[/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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