National IDs

[Sketcher]

How many of you non-Americans have a national ID card in your country? What is it used for? Is it effective? Do you have statistics on their use/effectiveness?

 

[albez]

There is a debate currently in the UK about whether we should have ID cards or not. If we did they would include biometric data about us on little chips on the cards, as well as information like Name etc and a photo.
I hope we don't end up having them just because the government would contain more personal information than it has already. Still I know there are advantages to it but I cannot believe that they will stop any terroist attacks, asylum seeker problems or anti-social behaviour.
I already have a driving licence which I can use as an ID card, as well as a Uni card and a Student card. Why do you need anymore?

 

[Aduro Amnis]

All a card should contain is:
Name
Age / Birthdate
Gender
SS#
and optionally, medical conerns.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I am thinking of doing some system like that. It seems beneficial. Of course, personal data would be limited, but I am thinking that a photo id + retinal info on the card could actually make it double as a credit card.

 

[Individual-KesTrel]

Why in the world would you want to make debt cards govement run ?

Keep them priviatized. I dont imagine you have a job / debt card.

Something like a Photo + Age, Height, Hair Color substitute for a drivers licnece might be nice. Identifies if you're a visitor or a citizien.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

The credit part itself wouldn't have to be government run, but for convenience's sake, it might actually be a good idea.

 

[Key Peninsula Redneck]

I actually prefer cash. I don't like people to know that I buy.

 

[BobbieDog]

The trouble with ID cards, and their part in mapping and tracking what people do, and are through what they do: is that we live in a **itty world; stuffed full of orthodoxy junkies, and exploitation freaks. These constituencies will exploit all ID based data systems, to putatively assert control over others. There's no two ways, it's what such dangerous freaks do: it's in their constitutional architecture, hardwired, reflexive.

If you become ensnared within such orthodoxy control, and you reject this: then you have to break and countervail that orthodoxy; and that's heavy for the foot soldier doing it, and it's heavy for the society suffering it.

ID cards are part of a nexus of putative control which breeds "terrorism": if we understand terrorism as that fundamental undermining of a hegemonic orthodoxy; where such undermining freaks the straights big time.

ID cards will instigate a plane of ultra control in the conventional: and force dissent, which may well increase, and perhaps dramatically, into planes of the ultra-unconventional.

A vote for ID based database systems of control and orthodoxy, in a world permeated with injustice and un-freedom, is a vote for terrorism.

 

[xXLurkerXx]

We in germany have an identity card which we call Personalausweis. Your name, address and photo are part of it (no fingerprints).
Basically it only proves that you are you. That´s its main purpose and for this it is pretty effective.

I have been asked for my ID card more by private clubs then by state institutions, of course state institutions sometimes also want to see it.

In 32 years for example never a policemen asked for it, but they always want to see my driving license (evil driver) which basically has the same data in it (small differences), but it is not as secure against forgery as the ID card.

If you want a membership card for a video rental shop or fitness studio you show your ID card and prove that you are the person you are pretending to be.
If you do not pay your membership fees they know who you are and where you live .

I think my credit card informations (where you buy stuff and how much of it), my bank card or the informations on my health insurance card would be much more interesting for others then my ID card.

A thing I would be more worried about then having an ID card would be a change in our data protection act.
The data protection acts in germany are quite good.

 

[BobbieDog]

A thing I would be more worried about then having an ID card would be a change in our data protection act.
The data protection acts in germany are quite good.

You bring up two fundamental points:
(1) That ID defined data (information) can help our straight system turn its wheels: it does make administration of a densely packed social world, much more possible; it enables fiancial and legal control.
(2) That the dangers of data are recognised: and that Data Protection Acts intend to see data used safely and justly.

We too have a UK DPA, and we all work under EU direction. The UK state intends three big databases, to enable its administration.
Our DPA tends to be clunky: it's running very hard to try to catch up; enterprises are finding it soaks up a lot of resource.
There are lots of exceptions from the DPA, many to do with security: which under what statutes we have for the "war on terror", that can mean quite a lot is excluded from protection under the DPA.

My real concern is that data tends to reflect the operational needs of orthodoxies: it defines how we are seen from the point of view of such orthodoxies; and many times that data is at odds with how a subject sees themselves.
We have that dramatically currently, with many of Islam. Where the data the authorities hold, they can take to define a subject as a terrorist: where that subject might reject that designation, and with it the data; that subject holding to an alternative data set on themselves. Perhaps the person the authorities want to see as terrorist, with their data: the subject themselves might wish to define themselves as upholding the political and legal rights of a given group, with the data they use in their self definition.
When we deal with acts of violence, the difference between data sets could be become even more antithetical: the authorities designation of atrocity, with their data; being countered by the subject's designation as community defense, with their alternate data set.
While these political data sets stand some way from data on what things you bought with a credit card, they are part of what becomes in social practice, a single integrated information process.
At some point we move from data which can be defined somewhat neutrally or technically, to data sets about which there can be profound and political difference: where in our current global circumstance that takes us into the "war on terror" and thus security.

 

[MadeInOz]

I say thank goodness we don't...

Big Brother... tch

 

[Swart]

There was an attempt to introduce one in Australia in 1987, but it met with huge opposition. The government then by stealth extended the powers and requirements of the Tax File Number, requiring a TFN for all bank accounts, employment, social security etc.

The Queensland Government is trying to introduce a smart card drivers licence which would also act as an identification card. They also want the right to store information on the card without the card holder kowing what is stored there.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I'd think they should at least tell the card bearer what is on their own card...

 

[feral]

I actually prefer cash. I don't like people to know that I buy.

Absolutely. I do not carry any credit cards, and I only use checks for bill paying to school and my apartment expenses. Everything else is bought with cash or, if necessary, a money order. I do not appreciate having my shopping monitored or leaving paper trails.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I hear that a lot. I gues my question is "Why are you concerned?"

 

[Individual-KesTrel]

Because you're purchases arent anyone elses buisness.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Because you're purchases arent anyone elses buisness.

How is that important though? Doesn't the checkout person see what you buy?

 

[oldrooster]

How is that important though? Doesn't the checkout person see what you buy?

They do not know who, just what you buy....

 

[Swart]

How is that important though? Doesn't the checkout person see what you buy?

When you swipe your flyby's card (and in some cases your CC), demographic information is gathered concerning you and your spending habits so that you can be "target marketed".

The bold plan is for digital TV to have tailored advertising - just for you, they know what you buy.

And you thought it was so you could watch movies on demand.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

They do not know who, just what you buy....

They see your face