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Discussion and Debate
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Physical & Life Sciences
Creation & Evolution
My YEC Evidence Challenge
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<blockquote data-quote="Bugeyedcreepy" data-source="post: 71318938" data-attributes="member: 387913"><p>Scientists ask questions about all manners of microscopic and/or invisible/intangible things because previous experimentation revealed it, or indicated it was there to be studied. I still don't know anything of the supernatural, let alone beings that can live there, this is not the same as starting out with the preconceived notion that it doesn't exist in the first place. Scientists have revealed all manner of things from very apparent things too - such as the age of the Earth & Universe, properties of many of the elements on the periodic table, the mechanisms that have produced the various lifeforms on this planet, so on.</p><p></p><p>Of all the religious beliefs all over the world, it's of no surprise that we can't settle on a god that even exists let alone the correct one. Even here on this Christian Forum, there's hundreds, if not thousands of Christian denominations represented here, so I'll certainly be interested to hear of what experimentation there is to clear this point up?</p><p></p><p>I spent much of my youth pondering the existence of a God, but as I said, never really had any direction nor was I ever contacted by one. To knock the preconception just a little, I haven't inserted an answer into the question, but I have to admit that the question remaining unanswered is getting pretty long in the tooth... I'm always open to getting an answer, but until then, I still have to live my life in the mean time. Coming to a conclusion about any one of a thousand possible entities that can't be seen let alone heard or obeyed is just non-sensical. What if I prayed to the wrong one, offending the Actual God (if indeed a God exists)? All the while though, I eagerly follow the ongoing success of Science and Technology and enjoy the fruits of that human endeavour.This Universe and the facts about it are Literally Amazing!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've noted a number of reactions even in this thread of people who've had experiences they've unequivocally believe to be demons, or spirits. I've asked but don't seem to be able to get answers for why they held these beliefs on what was essentially explained to be a shadow at a funny angle. To me, that's the best I could get out of them - no matter how far I looked into it, it would always be filtered through that person's superstitious bias, and no way to verify these 'observations' (for want of a better descriptor)... I've talked to plenty of believers who have taken any number of experiences to be demons or the Devil that are amply explainable by common non-supernatural phenomena that we humans are known to experience.</p><p></p><p>I'm here to learn more about it - that's why I come to these forums for the most part. In my home country, Young Earth Creationists and/or Biblical literalists are pretty thin on the ground, so the opportunity to explore minds who hold these lines of thought generally isn't afforded to me here. In the end though, it comes down to the default of withholding belief until more information is at hand one way or the other. It's proportional though, because depending on the merit of the claim, I could believe it without evidence, for example, you could say you have a pet dog and I'd take you at your word absent any evidence, because such things are commonplace and mundane in our everyday lives. A God that created a Universe yet requires my few dollars in tythe to spread his word is an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence.</p><p></p><p>I can't remember exactly what you stated, but it was along the lines of not talking to people who have no foundational experience with the spiritual realm, or something, but it isn't important for this conversation if you're talking to me anyway... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>So, I've been away overseas for a month or so, and have been lagging behind on my responses here - Interestingly though, you talk about your belief system and the pursuit of knowledge, but you haven't really answered my question. Do you care what is true? If so, how do you think we'd be best to come to the truth of a thing.</p><p></p><p>This is something I have found at odds between believers - Is your God a liar? That's to say, if we can use the scientific method to find out a fact about 'his creation' in this Universe, could you accept that to be true? As an example, we can measure the distance of stars and other galaxies from us here as far back as the first stars and galaxies formed some 13.4 billion years ago. Do you accept this as a factual observation?</p><p></p><p>Other avenues I'd want to point out at this juncture is the scientific progress and technology gained using these observations of the universe around us (Scientific Method) that has literally given us the longetivity & quality of life we enjoy now - such things as electricity, running water, building techniques, agricultural & farming techniques, progress in the medical sciences, engineering, technology, computers and global communications (internet), etc. All of which came about without any input from the bible, and in some cases in spite of it. We've certainly not had any guidance of a divine nature in revealing this progress, and when I say 'guidance', I mean input from a divine being. If a divine being does exist, we've never been able to get answers for the questions Science would ask, and we've had to progress these things under our own steam..</p><p></p><p>How did he answer, did you have a vision? hear a voice? Why do more people & religions not believe in Jesus as Lord than do, did you factor this into your "What is up with this dude Jesus" calculation?</p><p></p><p>Done that already, many time & many ways. Although the chat window is still open, it's been open for near on 40 years now, and counting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bugeyedcreepy, post: 71318938, member: 387913"] Scientists ask questions about all manners of microscopic and/or invisible/intangible things because previous experimentation revealed it, or indicated it was there to be studied. I still don't know anything of the supernatural, let alone beings that can live there, this is not the same as starting out with the preconceived notion that it doesn't exist in the first place. Scientists have revealed all manner of things from very apparent things too - such as the age of the Earth & Universe, properties of many of the elements on the periodic table, the mechanisms that have produced the various lifeforms on this planet, so on. Of all the religious beliefs all over the world, it's of no surprise that we can't settle on a god that even exists let alone the correct one. Even here on this Christian Forum, there's hundreds, if not thousands of Christian denominations represented here, so I'll certainly be interested to hear of what experimentation there is to clear this point up? I spent much of my youth pondering the existence of a God, but as I said, never really had any direction nor was I ever contacted by one. To knock the preconception just a little, I haven't inserted an answer into the question, but I have to admit that the question remaining unanswered is getting pretty long in the tooth... I'm always open to getting an answer, but until then, I still have to live my life in the mean time. Coming to a conclusion about any one of a thousand possible entities that can't be seen let alone heard or obeyed is just non-sensical. What if I prayed to the wrong one, offending the Actual God (if indeed a God exists)? All the while though, I eagerly follow the ongoing success of Science and Technology and enjoy the fruits of that human endeavour.This Universe and the facts about it are Literally Amazing! I've noted a number of reactions even in this thread of people who've had experiences they've unequivocally believe to be demons, or spirits. I've asked but don't seem to be able to get answers for why they held these beliefs on what was essentially explained to be a shadow at a funny angle. To me, that's the best I could get out of them - no matter how far I looked into it, it would always be filtered through that person's superstitious bias, and no way to verify these 'observations' (for want of a better descriptor)... I've talked to plenty of believers who have taken any number of experiences to be demons or the Devil that are amply explainable by common non-supernatural phenomena that we humans are known to experience. I'm here to learn more about it - that's why I come to these forums for the most part. In my home country, Young Earth Creationists and/or Biblical literalists are pretty thin on the ground, so the opportunity to explore minds who hold these lines of thought generally isn't afforded to me here. In the end though, it comes down to the default of withholding belief until more information is at hand one way or the other. It's proportional though, because depending on the merit of the claim, I could believe it without evidence, for example, you could say you have a pet dog and I'd take you at your word absent any evidence, because such things are commonplace and mundane in our everyday lives. A God that created a Universe yet requires my few dollars in tythe to spread his word is an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence. I can't remember exactly what you stated, but it was along the lines of not talking to people who have no foundational experience with the spiritual realm, or something, but it isn't important for this conversation if you're talking to me anyway... :) So, I've been away overseas for a month or so, and have been lagging behind on my responses here - Interestingly though, you talk about your belief system and the pursuit of knowledge, but you haven't really answered my question. Do you care what is true? If so, how do you think we'd be best to come to the truth of a thing. This is something I have found at odds between believers - Is your God a liar? That's to say, if we can use the scientific method to find out a fact about 'his creation' in this Universe, could you accept that to be true? As an example, we can measure the distance of stars and other galaxies from us here as far back as the first stars and galaxies formed some 13.4 billion years ago. Do you accept this as a factual observation? Other avenues I'd want to point out at this juncture is the scientific progress and technology gained using these observations of the universe around us (Scientific Method) that has literally given us the longetivity & quality of life we enjoy now - such things as electricity, running water, building techniques, agricultural & farming techniques, progress in the medical sciences, engineering, technology, computers and global communications (internet), etc. All of which came about without any input from the bible, and in some cases in spite of it. We've certainly not had any guidance of a divine nature in revealing this progress, and when I say 'guidance', I mean input from a divine being. If a divine being does exist, we've never been able to get answers for the questions Science would ask, and we've had to progress these things under our own steam.. How did he answer, did you have a vision? hear a voice? Why do more people & religions not believe in Jesus as Lord than do, did you factor this into your "What is up with this dude Jesus" calculation? Done that already, many time & many ways. Although the chat window is still open, it's been open for near on 40 years now, and counting. [/QUOTE]
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