My take on Original Sin

[tonychanyt]

Original sin is the idea that every human being is born inheriting a state of sinfulness from Adam and Eve. The terms are not in the Scripture. When it comes to doctrines, I prefer to adhere to the wording of the Scripture. People who like to generalize tend to overgeneralize in a doctrine. I know the following:

Romans 3:

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

We are all guilty of sin, whether original or not, and we all need Christ's blood to redeem us.

Ro 5:

18 As one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

Paul didn't use the word inherited. Paul was careful with his wording.

19 For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

Paul didn't say "all".

Did Jesus inherit the original sin?

I don't think so. No human inherits the original sin, but we all sin except Jesus.

Regarding babies in the womb, Romans 8:

10b when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad

Why do babies die?

We all die, 1 Corinthians 15:

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

We all die because of the consequence of the first sin, not because we have inherited the original sin in our bodies. Even Jesus died. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth, but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.

Did Adam and Eve have a sinful nature?

Everyone has a sinful nature to more or less extent. After the fall, sin affected the environment. Sin increased and became prevalent. There were more opportunities to sin.

Because humans are created in God's image, our consciences contain a righteous nature to some extent.

Adam and Eve had a better chance not to sin in their pure environment than we are today in our sinful world. We inherited a sinful world.

 

[timothyu]

Eve decided to put her will ahead of the will of God and Adam decided to let her. This was original sin, putting our will ahead of the will of God. And yes we've done it ever since. We were told to repent of this notion and even though we may stumble, our allegiance is to be to the will of God, not our own, hopefully having learned through life outside the Garden the consequences of our selfish nature. One only need turn on the news to see these consequences.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Original sin is the idea that every human being that is born inherits a state of sinfulness from Adam and Eve. The term is not written in the Bible. When it comes to doctrines, I prefer to stick closely to the wording of the Scripture.

We all die because of the consequence of the first sin. Even Jesus died. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth, but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.

That is the Eastern Orthodox view that death is the consequence of the first sin.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Original sin is the idea that every human being that is born inherits a state of sinfulness from Adam and Eve. The term is not written in the Bible. When it comes to doctrines, I prefer to stick closely to the wording of the Scripture.

Romans 3:


We are all guilty of sin, original or not, and we all need the blood of Christ to redeem us.

Did Jesus inherit the original sin?

I don't think so. The doctrine of the original sin is not a valid one. No human inherits the original sin. But we all sin except Jesus.

Regarding babies in the womb, Romans 8:


Why do babies die?

We all die, 1 Corinthians 15:


We all die because of the consequence of the first sin. Even Jesus died. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth, but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.

To make sure I'm understanding you, are you implying that natural man is not sinful? Man is born like Adam was before his disobedience, innocent and uncondemned?

I expect also that you deny imputed sin, correct?

 

[tonychanyt]

That is the Eastern Orthodox view that death is the consequence of the first sin.

reference?

 

[tonychanyt]

To make sure I'm understanding you, are you implying that natural man is not sinful?

No. I believe that man is naturally sinful.

Man is born like Adam was before his disobedience, innocent and uncondemned?

No, not like Adam. Today, man is born in a naturally sinful world but we are not born automatically condemned.

I expect also that you deny imputed sin, correct?

Define *imputed sin*.

Thanks for the insightful questions.

 

[FenderTL5]

reference?

A Reference
"In the Eastern Christian understanding, it is explicitly denied that humanity inherited guilt or a fallen nature from anyone; rather, humanity inherits sin's consequences and a fallen environment: "while humanity does bear the consequences of the original, or first, sin, humanity does not bear the personal guilt associated with this sin. Adam and Eve are guilty of their willful action; we bear the consequences, chief of which is death.""

 

[Mark Quayle]

No. I believe that man is naturally sinful.


No, not like Adam. Today, man is born in a naturally sinful world but we are not born automatically condemned.

If man is 'naturally sinful', how so, then?

Define *imputed sin*.

According to most Reformed/Calvinists, as I understand it, man is condemned because of inherited sinfulness (born already sinful and at enmity with God), and imputed sin (God has condemned the human race, and so every individual, as guilty of Adam's sin).

Original Sin can be thought of as the ruined character of each person, visible in all they do, and Imputed Sin can be thought of as the ruined standing before God of each person, quite apart from anything they themselves have done.

What Is the Difference Between Original Sin and Imputed Sin?

The terms "original sin" and "imputed sin" refer to the two main effects that Adam's sin had on the human race First, as a result of Adam's sin we all enter the world with a fallen nature. This is original…

www.desiringgod.org

Thanks for the insightful questions.

Thanks for the many interesting threads.

 

[tonychanyt]

If man is 'naturally sinful', how so, then?

From the selfish DNA

According to most Reformed/Calvinists, as I understand it, man is condemned because of inherited sinfulness (born already sinful and at enmity with God), and imputed sin (God has condemned the human race, and so every individual, as guilty of Adam's sin).

Right, I do not subscribe to imputed sin.

 

[Mark Quayle]

From the selfish DNA



Right, I do not subscribe to imputed sin.

Haha! "Selfish DNA" ...You might be right there! Wonder if you mean the same sort of DNA that endows all creatures with self-interest, or if you intend something more sinister than mere survival and happiness.

 

[Laodicean60]

Haha! "Selfish DNA" ...You might be right there! Wonder if you mean the same sort of DNA that endows all creatures with self-interest, or if you intend something more sinister than mere survival and happiness.

Every newborn baby whether in a meeting with an accountant or a church service will cause the parents to go to extraordinary actions to give the baby what he wants. Maybe it is DNA.

 

[HarleyER]

Original sin is the idea that every human being that is born inherits a state of sinfulness from Adam and Eve. The term is not written in the Bible. When it comes to doctrines, I prefer to stick closely to the wording of the Scripture.

Romans 3:


We are all guilty of sin, original or not, and we all need the blood of Christ to redeem us.

Did Jesus inherit the original sin?

I don't think so. The doctrine of the original sin is not a valid one. No human inherits the original sin. But we all sin except Jesus.

Regarding babies in the womb, Romans 8:


Why do babies die?

We all die, 1 Corinthians 15:


We all die because of the consequence of the first sin. Even Jesus died. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth, but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.

No human inherits the original sin. But we all sin except Jesus.

The question then would be WHY do we sin?

After Adam and Eve disobeyed God, their eyes were opened and they knew the difference between good and evil. Their nature and perspective had changed. Likewise, mankink knows the difference between good and evil. And ever since Adam, given a choice to do good or to do evil, man's will be bent to do evil.

 

[timothyu]

Likewise, mankink knows the difference between good and evil. And ever since Adam, given a choice to do good or to do evil, man's will be bent to do evil.

Remember that the first thing Adam and Eve did after their choice, was to become self aware. That self awareness of course puts focus on self instead of others which in turn does the opposite of the second commandment to love all as self. We've been doing it ever since and that has led to every woe in earth. Jesus' two commandments covered everything that happened to the human race in the garden and gave the solution. His will be done in earth and love all as self. (tell that to the politically active and see the self-absorbed result)

 

[tonychanyt]

Haha! "Selfish DNA" ...You might be right there! Wonder if you mean the same sort of DNA that endows all creatures with self-interest, or if you intend something more sinister than mere survival and happiness.

Both

 

[enoob57]

No human inherits the original sin. But we all sin except Jesus.

The question then would be WHY do we sin?

After Adam and Eve disobeyed God, their eyes were opened and they knew the difference between good and evil. Their nature and perspective had changed. Likewise, mankink knows the difference between good and evil. And ever since Adam, given a choice to do good or to do evil, man's will be bent to do evil.

When we, humankind, began it was the breath of God in intent to be of His image... when sin was enacted that Spiritual essence/connection to God died as separating us from God. Now offspring are born in this condition and the only input they are able to receive is that of sensual flesh/body, the five senses... unfortunately this sensual nature is tied to the world we gave over to Satan and this influence is of such all will yield to it's alure and sin.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Romans 5:14 KJV
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

 

[HarleyER]

Original sin is the idea that every human being that is born inherits a state of sinfulness from Adam and Eve. The term is not written in the Bible. When it comes to doctrines, I prefer to stick closely to the wording of the Scripture.

Romans 3:


We are all guilty of sin, original or not, and we all need the blood of Christ to redeem us.

Did Jesus inherit the original sin?

I don't think so. The doctrine of the original sin is not a valid one. No human inherits the original sin. But we all sin except Jesus.

Regarding babies in the womb, Romans 8:


Why do babies die?

We all die, 1 Corinthians 15:


We all die because of the consequence of the first sin. Even Jesus died. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth, but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.

I would agree with you on the concept of original sin and your conclusion. Instead of sin being inherit, I see it more as a way we are. Adam, being perfect, sinned simply by Eve waving a piece of fruit in front of him. It is simply our nature to be rebellious (evil) towards God.

But I would disagree on your statement; "Even Jesus died." implying that he faced the consequences of sin just like everyone else. Jesus gave up his life, it was not taken from Him as so many verses in scripture points out. The reason He willfully died was so that we might live.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I would agree with you on the concept of original sin and your conclusion. Instead of sin being inherit, I see it more as a way we are. Adam, being perfect, sinned simply by Eve waving a piece of fruit in front of him. It is simply our nature to be rebellious (evil) towards God.

"Studies show that if a man is offered fruit by a beautiful naked woman, he will accept it 100% of the time."

 

[TahitiRun]

Three scriptures that come readily to mind on the subject of original sin are:

Rom 5:12 Because of this, even as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death passed to all men, inasmuch as all sinned.

1Co 15:22 for as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Eze 18:4 Behold, they are all My souls. As the soul of the father, also the soul of the son, they are Mine. The soul that sins, it shall die.

I agree that we didn't actually inherit Adam's sin, nor was Adam's sin imputed to us (as often taught). We were not simply bystanders that somehow became infected with what Adam did. Nor was Adam representing us when he sinned.

Scriptures teach, from my perspective, that everyone (the whole of humanity, if you will) was in Adam and we all ate and sinned with him. You and I personally partook of the fruit and ate. We (i.e.: Adam, you and I, and everyone else included) were the "one man" that sinned.

Although I have no recollection of actually reaching for the fruit and eating, the bible tells me I did so in Adam.

 

[timothyu]

Eve and Adam both had the ability to put their will ahead of the will of God. We all do. That is what sets us a step above our fellow creatures. They did not respect Him enough to only put His will ahead of theirs. Neither do we as humans. We pursue self interest as they did. That is the definition of sin.