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Oh, you need also these beliefs for this all to work together...Where the Hebrew disagrees with the KJB, the Hebrew is wrong.
Any flood leaves evidence behind. Way more so for a supposed Genesis flood. It's not about the fossils. It's about the Earth itself.
We see this with a lot of things though; like wokeism, neo-Marxism, LBTQ+++ ideology, radical (pick a religion) etc. It all boils down to hardness of the human heart.There's a principle that Jesus stated that says ...
Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
People who lay up their treasures learning about evolution, end up laying there hearts there also.
And to tell them evolution is wrong is like tearing their hearts out.
We see this with a lot of things though; like wokeism, neo-Marxism, LBTQ+++ ideology, radical (pick a religion) etc. It all boils down to hardness of the human heart.
As I suspected you are all bluff and no substance.Go back and read the thread and then you tell me what you think the subject I'm addressing is.
Yep, my theory was correct. Telling you to go back and read the posts only confirms that you totally missed the point of the ENTIRE exchange!As I suspected you are all bluff and no substance.
What I read is of an individual who has a profoundly ignorant view of how science and scientists operate and the only reason I have participated in this thread is to set the record straight.
There are also the logical fallacies you employ to make a point.
The context of your argument the science as it is now could been different in the past or in a different location is one such example.
Given you emphasize this point continuously turns it into an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy of trying to turn a speculation into a statement of fact.
This leads to another logical fallacy of shifting the burden of proof on others, it’s your responsibility to support the argument with evidence.
From the scientific context once again your ignorance shows.
Scientists do in fact entertain the idea parameters could have been different in the past and in different locations.
Once such parameter of is the fine structure constant α ≈ 1/137 which defines the strength of the electromagnetic force.
Research indicates using the spectral lines from 128 quasars that there is a very small change Δα over the past 10-12 billion years and
Δα/ α = (-5.7 ± 1.0) X 10⁻⁶.
Scientists are not certain whether it is real or an experimental error, if it is real the change is so small it doesn’t impact on the science.
There are non mainstream theories that consider the speed of light may have been different in the past.
Why you are you continuing with the bluff; I called your bluff and you caved in.Yep, my theory was correct. Telling you to go back and read the posts only confirms that you totally missed the point of the ENTIRE exchange!
Why you are you continuing with the bluff; I called your bluff and you caved in.
On the subject of theories I have one of my own, you a small minded conservative Christian who sees science as a threat to your faith and your participation in this thread is a reaction to that threat.
Incidentally using a laughing icon as a response to a serious post is one of mockery.
It's regrettable you have to resort to this behavior.
1. Was the Flood story scientifically researched?
2. If so, was it thoroughly researched to see if it comported to how it was documented in the Bible?
3. If not, what parts were researched and what parts weren't?
4. Is there anything more that can be researched?
5. What is the scientific consensus of opinion on the Flood so far?
Not sure what that has to do with the text you quoted (about Romans 1).LOL - Christians are told all the time that how they interpret the flood and geology is just their beliefs. (I wouldn't have to tell a Christian that; because they already know that.)
But tell an atheist that and man..... nuclear apocalypse!
That's quite a claim. You seem to be calling me a liar. Care to retract that? because I very much was a Christian. (It's just not all of us (ex)Christians were anti-science or treated the Noachian flood as real.)P.S. You were never a Christian to begin with; but that's another theological subject!
People seem to want to think that all flood legends everywhere are just the Patriarchal Religion of Palestine cropping up...
Now if you were to ask me this question; I would say because God can not lie. And if you believe Scripture was written by the Holy Spirit (Which Scripture says that of itself.) Then God would not allow something to be put in there that wasn't true.Why exactly do you think its important to believe in a global flood, when there is no natural evidence of it, when its not needed for the theological message of the story and when it changes nothing about Christianity?
The verses you quoted from AV1611VET answer your question. Look at Genesis 7:19. It says the water covers all the land under heaven. Does "earth" in Hebrew mean "land"? (I don't know the answer to that; not something I've dug into.)Where does the Bible say that the flood was global, meaning over the whole planet/globe?
Not sure why you think my statement there had anything to do with the text in Romans 1? I didn't quote Romans 1 in that post.Not sure what that has to do with the text you quoted (about Romans 1).
My statement about you never having been a Christian to begin with; is based on the doctrine of election. Those who are elect from the foundation of the world are those Christ atoned for. He didn't pay for the sin of every single human being that ever lived. If he'd done that; there'd be no grounds God could stand on to condemn anyone for their sin. There are other issues with the concept of universal atonement; but that's one of them.That's quite a claim. You seem to be calling me a liar. Care to retract that? because I very much was a Christian. (It's just not all of us (ex)Christians were anti-science or treated the Noachian flood as real.)
This isn't exactly true.Back in the day, the world meant the inhabited world ...the world they knew about...
This isn't exactly true.
"A decree went out from Augustus Caesar that all the world be taxed." That word "world" is the Greek word "inhabitant".
"For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son..." That word "world" is the Greek word "Cosmos".
Now does Hebrew have more than one word for "world"? I know Hebrew has different words for "earth" and "world"; But this doesn't mean that the Hebrew word "world" that's normally translated "earth" isn't translated "world" in some places. That does happen. There is some degree of ambiguity in translations from one language to another.
You really didn't pay attention what I wrote and where is A not A. Can you give even one example?Except for the times that A isn't actually A. You just assume it's A.
Which is all based on an assumption you can't prove. You can't prove that natural law has been consistent throughout the course of time.
The paragraph above is a response to an aside I offered to another poster about very fundamental things, but you want to talk about entropy and hydrogen atoms, so I guess you're going to get a physics lesson. I hope it will take...And this is because you can't prove those values have been consistent through time. Matter of fact, because of entropy we know they are not. Now how much does entropy affect something like a hydrogen atom? We don't know the answer to that either. It's an assumption that the make up of a hydrogen atom has had the same "shape", "structure" and "interactive capacity" from the beginning of time.
Again entropy doesn't affect the properties of atoms, hydrogen, magnesium or otherwise.Again, another assumption. Would the magnesium lines in a quasar have been the same 10,000 years ago? I would venture to hypothesis "probably not" because of entropy.
As someone who doesn't believe in God; I'm sure you would agree this cosmos is not eternal.
Divinity is meaningless to me as a property or otherwise. I don't really care about how you want to toss that word about.To say the cosmic material in this universe is "unchanging" would be to give it properties of Divinity. And you certainly don't want to do that - now; do you?
I told you I won't play presuppositionalist games with you.The "gotcha" is actually a (would we call it rhetorical argument?) which you ended up agreeing with me (using your own definitions) that your assessment of a given set of data is based on a belief system about that data.
Atheism isn't a worldview and I don't derive "truth" from it, nor would I care to.I never said I or anyone else could understand or explain everything. We are not omniscient (yet another theological concept). You stated your own "absolution on truth" (which "what is truth" isn't a measurable question either; at least it's not in the context of an atheistic world view which has no standard whereby to measure truth from!)
All morality is relative, or at least subjective.So just like moral relativism.
Based on what expertise or experience with the data do you claim equivalent validity?Your interpretation of the data collected is no more valid than mine!
O jee, what could that be?But that's a whole other aspect of this debate that you seem to be missing.
Yes, I said that. So what.The presupposition that everything can be naturally explained is also an assumption.
Only if you think gods are real. I don't. And I certainly am not "suppressing" any "knowledge of god". If I knew about a god, I wouldn't not believe in any. I would certainly think it was there. (Obeying, worshipping, or even liking such a being is a completely different question, from accepting it exists. I see no reason to think any god is real based on the utter lack of evidence of any god.)Again, here's where Romans 1 applies perfectly to you.
I never said the cosmos was randomly created. (In fact I think it was uncreated and always existed.) I'm not sure how the Universe arose from the Cosmos, but that's a different question.You put yourself in the position of God assuming there's no framework that natural explanation can't answer. (I.E. Another example of "scientist" nixing data to support his own theory!) Mathematical probability doesn't support the idea that this cosmos is randomly created. And if it's not randomly created; your only other possible "hypothesis" is Intelligent design.
Hardly.(Gotcha again!)
It was measured, or is this a "then where did the Universe come from" thing? if the latter I don't know, but so what. We already established we don't know everything.A mountain of evidence that you can't explain how it got here though!
Your opinion doesn't match my opinion... I'm good with that.
... and faith is by nature unprovable...
After being painted into a corner you need to engage in this diversionary tactic of word salad and questioning my credentials as a Christian and “scientist”.Wondering if this tom foolery even deserves a response?
But I'll give you one anyways - Let's see if you can figure this out?
It doesn't matter if you're right. It only matters if I'm right!
Since you're the "scientist", what does that mean; particularly in the contextualization of theories on the origin of the universe?
P.S. Are you aware that your profile says you are a Christian?
And this.And this is because you can't prove those values have been consistent through time. Matter of fact, because of entropy we know they are not. Now how much does entropy affect something like a hydrogen atom?
Again, another assumption. Would the magnesium lines in a quasar have been the same 10,000 years ago? I would venture to hypothesis "probably not" because of entropy.
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