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My new "hat"

Kris10leigh

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:wave: Hello good liberal Buddies!

I've been asked in the Messianic forum about why I changed my faith icon. It was noticed within 5 minutes of my changing it. Because they really do define us, I wanted to explain. I thought I'd offer the same explanation to all of you, because I like to spend time here as well. And I know many of you have been through this!!!! I would love some feedback.

I am currently caught somewhere between agnosticism and Judaism. I've basically lost all faith in man's interpretation of who God is.

Here's a copy of what I posted there:

I don't want to feel as though I'm hiding anything from anyone, and it has already come up in a thread, so I thought I'd just offer up that I'm open to questions and comments, but they are probably best asked here.

I changed my faith icon. I did this because I don't want anyone to ever think I've been deceptive. My faith is ever changing, ever evolving. It's hard for me to wear a specific "hat". I've said many times that my beliefs fit mostly with Messianic, but I'm not really a very good example of one. I thought non-trin Messianic fit me well and was encouraged to see there were others who were non-trin as well. As it turns out, I'm even more extreme in my non-trin beliefs than your average non-trin.

Some of you may remember my joy in talking with my pastor. For better or for worse, he told me that others do think as I do and he didn't think any less of me for it. I expected him to reign me in, and when he did not, it opened up my mind to further scrutiny of faith.

So today, I am simply seeking. I am trying to figure out who Yeshua is and what he meant to Judaism. I'm neither a good Christian nor a good believer in Judaism.

I would like to stick around though, because you guys keep me grounded. ;) I haven't made up my mind. I have faith that God will lead me where He wants me to go. Admittedly right now, I'm really starting to wonder what His plan is for me.

Feel free to question me. I'll be as honest as I can be. But be forewarned...my answers may all change tomorrow. ;) That's kind of where I am right now.
 
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Safe travels on your search for Him.

Jeremiah 29 13
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Deuteronomy 4:29 But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.



 
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Im_A

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:wave: Hello good liberal Buddies!

I've been asked in the Messianic forum about why I changed my faith icon. It was noticed within 5 minutes of my changing it. Because they really do define us, I wanted to explain. I thought I'd offer the same explanation to all of you, because I like to spend time here as well. And I know many of you have been through this!!!! I would love some feedback.

I am currently caught somewhere between agnosticism and Judaism. I've basically lost all faith in man's interpretation of who God is.

Here's a copy of what I posted there:

One of my best friends is at a time in his life he doesn't know what he believes in in regards to churches and stuff. He believes in God and Jesus, but church whise he really does feel confused. He currently goes to a Luthern Church and his friend is going to an Old Catholic Church and I was telling him about how my curiosity grew strong towards the Eastern Orthodox Church before I became Atheist.

Right now I am helping him out to find at least information on the churches, to get him started in maybe thinking of which churches that he wants to check out to since he's shown interest in these two and just give basic information I have found about the churches that I have found that will maybe help him to research more and I hope it helps him to figure out his own self in this in his own life because he's a believer who is really struggling right now in the sense of church identity and such or so it may seem at times as he talks to me about things in his head with the church.

I take the view that changing beliefs, or coming to a point that you don't know anymore, that a gradual progression is the best way. I did it that way, I know of people that did it like that. It deals with the issues, questions, doubts etc. etc. better I think. I do not think it is about where you end up but how you get there that is the most important because if you go at it on a good and honest to yourself at all times manner instead of being another consumer in our consumer/post-consumeristic society of anything that you can get your hands on, you'll reach a good end. Plus with beliefs, certainity is never a promise for the human or one that a human should ever make with beliefs in my opinion. I mean for all I know, maybe I'll wind up a believer again. I only say that because I'm no Ms. Cleo. :)

So I just wanted to share that and just say good for you. There's nothing wrong with a gradual change, and a step by step change. You know, it is odd in a way with my friend. He once told me, "When we were younger man, you were so strong in your faith, stronger than me, and now, I seem to be the strong one, and it just doesn't seem right", this wasn't him joking at all, he is the first Christian that has told me, "I really hope that someday you do believe again" and I know he isn't evangelizing, or prostetlizing, he's just giving care in this in a manner that he knows how to and that's he's free to do and its geniune from him and now I find myself hoping to be a help to help him figure out his own beliefs because he still believes, and his time of questioning is not in the sense of like agnosticism or atheism vs. another religion, its just with churches. Him and I relate so much on the level that regardless of the topic of things we question, we just take it step by step. He's a severely honest Christian who is honest about his issues, the things he likes, he's just as profane as me, yet his faith always is there. I'm not doing it to keep or destroy his faith, I just want to help him. I think its good to have a friend or someone to just help you out, bounce ideas off of that know you and can be able to regardless if they agree or not with everything and be able to give a reason why they don't personally agree and not give the feeling as if their disagreeing with you means your wrong. Matters of so called "right and wrong" thinking are useless when your trying to figure out your own believes in my opinion, and him and I are magical on that one :)

So long way of saying this, good for you and you know, I would advise to just simply find someone if you don't have anyone that will be of help, to not try to change you or influence you but help you maybe seek information that your searching for in a non-biased manner and just take it step by step. I really hope in some way, over the next course of a few months, I can help him figure out in some way, which of these churches, or somewhere else that he may discover to go to that will best fit his life and as for you, I sure hope the best for you. :)
 
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Kris10leigh

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You could be an agnostic Jew. Just enjoy the cultural aspects of Judaism and don't worry about the other stuff. I know a few people who are like that.
Good advice...except in order be an agnostic Jew, one must first be a Jew to begin with. ;) I'm not Jewish and would need to convert if I wanted to be one. But once a Jew, always a Jew. Unlike Christianity, you can't just walk away from being a Jew. It's a people as much as it is a religion.
 
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Kris10leigh

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Ima, organized religion has been my downfall. If your friend can find a nice, comfortable church that's a good fit, great. Otherwise I would steer him toward a study group. But obviously, I'm a bad one to ask. I just find myself sitting in church with my ears wide open thinking, no, no, no.

I think it's wonderful you and your friend support each other, regardless of what the other believes. :thumbsup:
 
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Irrkunst

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Good advice...except in order be an agnostic Jew, one must first be a Jew to begin with. ;) I'm not Jewish and would need to convert if I wanted to be one. But once a Jew, always a Jew. Unlike Christianity, you can't just walk away from being a Jew. It's a people as much as it is a religion.


Okay, so never mind that...
 
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Im_A

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Ima, organized religion has been my downfall. If your friend can find a nice, comfortable church that's a good fit, great. Otherwise I would steer him toward a study group. But obviously, I'm a bad one to ask. I just find myself sitting in church with my ears wide open thinking, no, no, no.

I think it's wonderful you and your friend support each other, regardless of what the other believes. :thumbsup:

I wonder if he has something similiar, grant it, I would never compare you two's experiences to just respect both of yours. His question isn't about "God's existence" it is more about within Christianity, what is the church that has it correct.

When I talk to him I come from more of a past background insight, which is both useful for him because we're so close of friends and yet, it is not useful because of the fact I am an atheist, and I am a skeptic, and my view of church now is, there are great things to be said for everyone, just as I believe that is the case for the world. So its hard to gear him in a sense to like emperical truth expressed in the Christian faith through the established churches when he knows I'm a moral relativist, truth is subjective to me because of how everyone's experience differ in the same reality so I would be more inclined to believe that any kind of "shared" truth is the similiar that all people share. Its odd because the secular view conflicts with the religious view no matter how liberal, conservative you have a secular or a religious view, they just conflict.

I had a friend who was there for me, because we were coming to a similiar conclusion of becoming atheist. We had different "paths" for lack of better wording, within Christianity except our background of growing up was in a similiar denomination but it was odd. She at the time was more towards Messianiciam, and me Liberal Christianity. I never have agreed with Messianicism (sp?) even though I do think people in that make some very valid points. She never agreed as far as I know with many things in Liberal Christianity but yet somehow, as a somewhat close plutonic friendship she and me became in a way our friend in arms because we were going in the same direction.

With my friend in the example, my best friend that I have known since highschool, this is not the case. I'm not out to secularize or atheisticize him. His questions and doubts aren't what mine were before I went to atheism, or like I like to say, had an affair with agnosticism. Him, its not the case. In my own beliefs, the honeymoon is over. I'm just at peace with myself in my views and I'm getting my life back in order the best I can because a lot of changes have happened this year, and life goes on. Him, I hope I can help out with that, regardless of the conclusion, because I sometimes wonder, if I didn't have my own friend as a support structure or the ability to voice it out openly and freely, what would I believe now? Would I have continued on a lieing life of saying I believe things that I do not believe in for sake of "duty"? I don't blame my friend for my views now, it is just having a friend or someone there that is kind of a help in a non-biased manner it really helps to see clearer about your own self. How it works, I have no idea. :)

I mean him, he believes in God's existence and the expression of that being from Christianity. I remember those days where I felt the same. Yet, all I had was biased reasoning from the majority of people, not him, but a lot of people back then. I think that "clan" type of thinking about our species is at times "holy" for lack of better wording simply because its between two human beings that are similiar in many ways yet are diverse in so many ways and yet something helps mentally to be able to see things clearer.

So I hope I didn't make your thread off topic and I hope you don't see me as trying to talk about them more than your issue. I just strongly advise, maybe your husband, maybe that pastor, maybe someone else, whatever works for you, to kind of let them be your support to help you figure yourself out. People that are understanding and gracious, and don't try to be a salesperson of their belief to you and just try to help you reason with yourself to figure out what you need to believe. A person can't survive on an island alone right? :)
 
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DeanM

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But obviously, I'm a bad one to ask. I just find myself sitting in church with my ears wide open thinking, no, no, no.
:thumbsup:

At risk of causing a debate, I have to disagree with you.

You're a great person to ask for, at your core, there are legitimate questions. You reason things through logically and base your beliefs on what your brain tells you over what you are told to believe. Without people like you, many would still believe that the world was flat; that scripture was best seen by only the clergy; that interracial marriage was a sin, etc.

Organized religion has been the downfall for many a good person's faith.

Since every little faction believes that they hold the only truth, it would stand to reason that in all probability most of us are wrong anyway.

And one must wonder if God is going to give us all a written exam upon our passing where only those who possess the absolute truth shall He embrace.

No, Kris. You aren't the person we should avoid asking. You're the first person we should ask. Inside of you is the same spark of curiosity that we all face. Some admit to it, and others do not.

If you believe in God after being told so many "truths" about Him, then that's fine. If you still have questions, that's fine too. If you find you cannot believe in line with any major religion, I salute you.

For all we know, your beliefs are possibly closer to the truth than anyone else's.

Cuz everyone can't be right . . .

Luckily God will not punish us for misunderstanding His full glory, whether or not we fall into easy catagories.

You're doing just fine, Kris.
 
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Kris10leigh

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Dean, you have quite a way with words, my friend. It is much appreciated.

See, I believe that God knows what is in our hearts and judges us individually based on that. I'm falling back on that theory at the moment, but it's a very scary thing to think your salvation is on the line. And it's an even scarier place to be when you admit you really don't believe in salvation as humans understand it anyway.

I'm happy to go wherever God leads me. I just wish His voice was a little louder. :)
 
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Irrkunst

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^_^ That's ok! I didn't understand that when I first started posting at the Messianic forum. I don't think most Christians understand that.


I understood all of that stuff, I just assumed you were Jewish because you said that you were torn between Judaism and agnosticism.
 
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AzA

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...it's a very scary thing to think your salvation is on the line. And it's an even scarier place to be when you admit you really don't believe in salvation as humans understand it anyway.

I'm happy to go wherever God leads me. I just wish His voice was a little louder. :)
Thank you for sharing this part of your journey with us, Kris. I'm glad you're here.

To have clarity on what you do and don't know is a blessing, even though it can feel like a burden depending on who you're around. And to keep walking and searching through periods of uncertainty -- well, that's courage.

Try not to freak out: freaking out doesn't support the process, lol! Despite the fear you say you have, you still sound really open, and I think that's wonderful.

If you ever wanna talk, sis... I'm around. :)
 
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