My Jesus Challenge

the iconoclast said:

Hey hey and thanks for the reply.

Is christianity dualist?

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Theologians fight the dualism at every step but I think for the average, not theologically inclined believer they tend to see it as dualist. Hellenism and Platonism runs deep in Christianity. I don't think its a bad thing, it simply is.

the iconoclast said:

Do you think you will ever stay with one belief or will you keep searching?

What are you looking for?

Cheers

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Good question! I suspect it'll "settle down" as my life priorities change but I expect that my beliefs will evolve for my whole life. I am suspicious of people who insist they have the absolute truth and that their beliefs never change.

Zoness said:

Theologians fight the dualism at every step but I think for the average, not theologically inclined believer they tend to see it as dualist. Hellenism and Platonism runs deep in Christianity. I don't think its a bad thing, it simply is.

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Hey hey zoness


Lets reason together.


Dualism - the religious doctrine that the universe contains opposed powers of good and evil, especially seen as balanced equals.


Does that description fit in with Christianity?

What are some examples of platonism and hellenism in the Bible?

Cheers

the iconoclast said:

Hey hey ananda my dear


It has happened to me through the Holy Spirit. It was like an intuition.

Why shouldnt the communication be personal and done His way/or through what God deems the correct method?

Cheers

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How do you know that personal communication to you was from "God", and not another consciousness?

AV1611VET said:

Let's just say some people take loving plants to a new low.

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Others take it to a new high as they see Christ in plants and all other aspects of the Universe.

ananda said:

How do you know that personal communication to you was from "God", and not another consciousness?

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Hey hey you precious gem.

The result confirms it. The method gets me there.

1 John 4:1-3
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.

Romans 10:13
for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

2 cor 5:16-18
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:


Acts 22:16
'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'


I did not pray to zeus my friend. I prayed to God

I knocked and the door opened. I seeked and i found. I desired to have Jesus and i did the action/method required. I gave my heart, soul and life to God.

I am His!

Qhat other beings or consciousness could it be?

So if you could please indulge me, Why shouldnt the communication be personal?

Cheers my dear

dlamberth said:

Others take it to a new high as they see Christ in plants and all other aspects of the Universe.

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Hey hey

This position is called pantheism and is not compatible with what Christ taught.

the iconoclast said:

Is christianity dualist?

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I understand I was not the person asked, but I'd like to give an answer. I'd have to say with out an inch of doubt that Christianity is dualistic in most every quarter. I can think of only a few areas with in Christian practice that rise above dualism. Those ares that do are mostly with the mystics. But for the most part, those folks are often regulated to the realm of heretic with only like minded people paying any attention to them.

the iconoclast said:

Hey hey

This position is called pantheism and is not compatible with what Christ taught.

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But the position called Panenthiesm is.

dlamberth said:

But the position called Panenthiesm is.

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Hey hey my dear

the belief or doctrine that God is greater than the universe and includes and interpenetrates it.

Does God mix or merge together with His creation?

Is God included in His creation?

Cheers

Cheers

dlamberth said:

I understand I was not the person asked, but I'd like to give an answer. I'd have to say with out an inch of doubt that Christianity is dualistic in most every quarter. I can think of only a few areas with in Christian practice that rise above dualism. Those ares that do are mostly with the mystics. But for the most part, those folks are often regulated to the realm of heretic with only like minded people paying any attention to them.

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Hey hey you precious gem

Dualism - the religious doctrine that the universe contains opposed powers of good and evil, especially seen as balanced equals.


Does that description fit in with Christianity?

You'd think Christianity is incompatible with dualism, but then you find all those elements they apparently "borrowed" from the Zoroastrians: a cosmic adversary pitted against the exclusively good deity in a spiritual war that has corrupted the earth and man, necessitating that Man turns away from "the World" and needs to be redeemed from his "fallen" nature.
Sure, it does not make any sense if you stick to the claim that God is omnipotent while Satan is nowhere near as powerful, but that's Christianity.
Judaism wisely excluded these folkloristic elements from their theology and re-interpreted Satan as a loyal angel ,but all the younger Abrahamic religions did not.

the iconoclast said:

Hey hey my dear

the belief or doctrine that God is greater than the universe and includes and interpenetrates it.

Does God mix or merge together with His creation?

Is God included in His creation?

Cheers

Cheers

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First, for myself it isn't a "belief" or "doctrine". It's an actual experience of the Light of God with in the essence of this Creation. Every where one turns, there God is.

the iconoclast said:

Hey hey you precious gem

Dualism - the religious doctrine that the universe contains opposed powers of good and evil, especially seen as balanced equals.


Does that description fit in with Christianity?

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The way it's practiced by the Christians around me, I'd have to say yes. But if one wanted to look at dualism in the broader sense, there's a lot more going on with dualsim than are images of supposed good and evil. The very fact that you have narrowed the question down to good and evil suggest to me a narrow perspective of dualism which I'm finding interesting especially when viewed through the lens of a Panenthest perspective.

Hey hey jane. I assume this post was directed to me.

Jane_the_Bane said:

You'd think Christianity is incompatible with dualism

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Christianity is not compatible with dualism. Satan is not equal to God - as seen in the Book of Job - in fact he needs permission from God. Satan is a liar, the accuser and the tempter.

My friend, he tried and failed to usurp heaven. He was given a verdict and will face punishment. I wouldnt call this relationship equal or a balanced opposition. Satan was an angel who wanted to be in place of God and was unsuccessful.

Another defintion for dualism

dualism means the belief in two supreme opposed powers or gods, or sets of divine or demonic beings, that caused the world to exist.

Demonic beings were not instrumental in the creation of the world.

Sin (bad) is disobedience to God and is not a dimetric or equally opposing force. Darkness is the absence of light my dear.

Jane_the_Bane said:

but then you find all those elements they apparently "borrowed" from the Zoroastrians:

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Please dont be rash my friend. This is pure speculation.

Heres what we know about zoroastrianism from wiki if you dont mind.

The roots of Zoroastrianism are thought to have emerged from a common prehistoric Indo-Iranian religious system dating back to the early 2nd millennium BC.

Interesting word 'thought'. When you see that word it means unproven.

Zoroaster himself, though traditionally dated to the 6th century BCE, is thought by many modern historians to have been a reformer of the polytheistic Iranian religion

I see red flags here. Can you guess what they are my unique gem?

Is it possible that zoroaster borrowed 'these' elements you speak of from Judaism?

Jane_the_Bane said:

a cosmic adversary pitted against the exclusively good deity in a spiritual war that has corrupted the earth and man,

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Already nailed that one my friend.

Jane_the_Bane said:

necessitating that Man turns away from "the World" and needs to be redeemed from his "fallen" nature

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Could you please provide a reference?

The christian doctrine is man is born into sin because of the fall of Adam. We need to be cleansed of sin to be acceptable to God. God sent His only begotten Son as the ultimate scrifice, so we may be redeemed to God. Jesus is the reedemer.

We are told to go into the world and spread the good news about yours and my saviour, Jesus.

We are told not to be worldly which means do not disobey God and become like the unsaved.

Jane_the_Bane said:

Sure, it does not make any sense if you stick to the claim that God is omnipotent while Satan is nowhere near as powerful, but that's Christianity.

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No my delicous friend, it is your misrepresention.

Jane_the_Bane said:

Judaism wisely excluded these folkloristic elements from their theology and re-interpreted Satan as a loyal angel ,but all the younger Abrahamic religions did not.

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Could you please provide a reference?

Cheers my dear

dlamberth said:

First, for myself it isn't a "belief" or "doctrine". It's an actual experience of the Light of God with in the essence of this Creation. Every where one turns, there God is.

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Hey hey you special and unique person you

I am a creationist. When i see Creation, i see the fingerprint of God.

Im curious my friend. What was this event or occurrence - which leaves an impression on someone - of the Light of God with in the essence of this Creation?

What event or occurance proved that the spirit of the Christian God exists in nature? ( eg plants, trees, animals, rocks, etc,)

What do you mean by light of God?

When you say God do you mean the Christian God?

dlamberth said:

The way it's practiced by the Christians around me, I'd have to say yes.

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What denomination are these christians?

How is it practised?

dlamberth said:

But if one wanted to look at dualism in the broader sense, there's a lot more going on with dualsim than are images of supposed good and evil.

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Please indulge me. What more is going on that the usual and traditional defintion is missing?

dlamberth said:

The very fact that you have narrowed the question down to good and evil suggest to me a narrow perspective of dualism which I'm finding interesting especially when viewed through the lens of a Panenthest perspective.

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Well my dear dont be shy. Lets consider that if infact i did 'narrowed' the question down to good and evil.

What is the question?

How would we widen it? What is missing? What else could there be?

Cheers. I look forward to your reply.



Are you a panenthesist?

the iconoclast said:

Qhat other beings or consciousness could it be?

So if you could please indulge me, Why shouldnt the communication be personal?

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Assuming you did hear from someone/something: how do you know you heard from an infinite/perfect being ("God"), and not merely a finite but extremely powerful being (like a deva)?