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'Deborah D said: ↑
who has made Himself known through His incredible creation.
If you say so. Personally, I have no good reason to believe this.'
Are you serious ? What else but an omniscient, omnipotent god could have created and, up to this moment, continue to sustain, a universe of such size and complexity ? You have a very riotous imagination. You should find this article interesting :
Experience, Rational Debate & Science Depend On The Supernatural
Wow, I've seen Muslims say the same thing.
And are you really REALLY saying that the Bible predicts things that haven't been predicted? How do you know if they haven't been predicted? I mean, why don't you use the Bible to make a prediction about something we have no scientific knowledge of?
It is evidence if that "old book" is written by the Creator of the universe who has made Himself known through His incredible creation.
Enjoy the sunshine tomorrow because the earth is just the right amount of distance from the sun
Enjoy looking at the fall colors because he made your eyes to function so well that man copied His design in making the camera
Enjoy breathing because He made this earth's atmosphere to have just the right mixture of gasses.
And on top of all these wonders
HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH that He came to earth and died so that you can have life!
There's your evidence
, and there's so much more than there is room to list all of them!
I pray that someday you will know the overwhelmingly deep love of your Creator.
There are three things to be so that we can be here. Time, space, matter. Take away any one of those three and the other two collapse into themselves and we cannot exist; and in that they do exist we can go backward to a place in time where matter did not exist, where time did not exist, and space did not exist. In that they do exist it must be that they did not exist, until they did exist. Only the unified and unequaled energy can have brought them into existence and that was God. No matter how you describe God, He is infinite, omniscient, omnipresent, all powerful. Nothing else explains how it is that all of the elements we need to exist is here and in perfect balance.
If this is not true, explain the beginning because even before the "Big Bang" there had to be time, space, matter.... AND energy.
Through the discovery of the DNA code (not binary, but quaternary), it was confirmed that information precedes matter, ergo design, etc. Gates states that it is a kind of software, immeasurably more complex and sophisticated than any software Microsoft has been able to come up with.
It's also an organism that is the result of 3.8 billion years of evolution.Well, while existing at the 'nano' level, enlarged to the size of a small village, the simple, one-cell, E-Coli bug would be a vast, functioning factory of incredible complexity and sophistication - with all the functions of a 'state of the art' factory and more : inventory, 'just-in-time' procurement and storage, quality control, refuse removal, the lot ...
Darn, I thought I had you on ignore.
3...2...1...
Wow, I've seen Muslims say the same thing.
So I guess that means you believe the Koran now?
And are you really REALLY saying that the Bible predicts things that haven't been predicted? How do you know if they haven't been predicted? I mean, why don't you use the Bible to make a prediction about something we have no scientific knowledge of? Say dark matter. Use the Bible to give me scientific information about dark matter. We are likely to make scientific breakthroughs regarding dark matter in the next few years, so we won't have too long (in all likelihood) to see if you are right. So go on, use the Bible to give me information about dark matter that science does not currently know. Let's see how good you are.
Because all you are doing is making POST-dictions, not PREdictions. It's easy enough to take a metaphorical account steeped in metaphor and find a way to interpret it that agrees with science that has been discovered, and then claim the metaphorical account was never metaphorical and was instead a literal description that was meant to be interpreted in the way that matches up with what science has already discovered. Any fool can do that. But if you are REALLY correct, you should be able to use the Bible to make specific predictions about something science has no knowledge of. So, let's see you do it. Doesn't even have to be about dark matter. It can be about anything you want.
Go, in peace and take your hardened heart with you. I am going to love you as I do others and as I have capacity, but we also have permission to go our way and wipe the dust of your doubt and disbelief off our feet. There are many who desire to know the truth and do not want a lonely existence. We can invest our time better with them.Bare religious claims explain nothing. They just claim.
Blatant argument from ignorance.
Idd. They did exactly the same thing with Big Bang theory and the expansion of the universe.
For millenia, no theist interpreted those verses in that way.
Then, after scientific consensus was reached on an expanding universe, there came the creationist saying that it "they knew it all along" because "da bible says god stretched out the heavens".
Yet, before we knew about an expanding universe, a static universe was assumed. Theists weren't disagreeing.
It's pretty pathetic.
Just a thought of mine and no others. But in the beginning God created a world that needed nothing to keep going. But in knowing that Adam would fail and would turn the world into a hard place it needed a "natural" series of events to keep going. So, in creation God made the dinosaurs and made them large to occupy the space and propagate the circle of life, ever decreasing in size as numbers increased until man no longer needed them. Time as scientists describe it is based on a unit of numbers of decay that has been corrected numerous times. Sometimes accepted and sometimes rejected. But time, none the less and as you said, contraction related to speed of decay..., making us much closer to the creation time than the evolutionary time required to get here. One PhD I recall believed in old world, new creation had the evidence in hand of what you are talking about and how that theory could co-exist with our Biblical understanding. Just something to ponder.And because creationists ignored that stretching, they came up with the wrong answers of age. Just as atheists are now ignoring it and coming up with the incorrect answers of age....
One refuses to adjust for length contraction and realize length of days and years would change as one goes backwards as orbital distances changed (and mass - hence dinosaur sized land creatures can no longer exist), the other refuses to adjust for time dilation and realize radiometric decay rates would speed up as one goes backwards (hence they use today's slow rates to calculate past rates which were faster)....
Neither, because they ignore that stretching, get the correct answers.....
Time dilation is indeed an experimental fact.Just a thought of mine and no others. But in the beginning God created a world that needed nothing to keep going. But in knowing that Adam would fail and would turn the world into a hard place it needed a "natural" series of events to keep going. So, in creation God made the dinosaurs and made them large to occupy the space and propagate the circle of life, ever decreasing in size as numbers increased until man no longer needed them. Time as scientists describe it is based on a unit of numbers of decay that has been corrected numerous times. Sometimes accepted and sometimes rejected. But time, none the less and as you said, contraction related to speed of decay..., making us much closer to the creation time than the evolutionary time required to get here. One PhD I recall believed in old world, new creation had the evidence in hand of what you are talking about and how that theory could co-exist with our Biblical understanding. Just something to ponder.
Go, in peace and take your hardened heart with you.
I am going to love you as I do others and as I have capacity
The truth is found in the evidence of reality, not in bronze aged books and superstition.There are many who desire to know the truth and do not want a lonely existence
We can invest our time better with them.
Pure fantasy, contrary to the actual evidence.Just a thought of mine and no others. But in the beginning God created a world that needed nothing to keep going. But in knowing that Adam would fail and would turn the world into a hard place it needed a "natural" series of events to keep going. So, in creation God made the dinosaurs and made them large to occupy the space and propagate the circle of life, ever decreasing in size as numbers increased until man no longer needed them. Time as scientists describe it is based on a unit of numbers of decay that has been corrected numerous times. Sometimes accepted and sometimes rejected. But time, none the less and as you said, contraction related to speed of decay..., making us much closer to the creation time than the evolutionary time required to get here. One PhD I recall believed in old world, new creation had the evidence in hand of what you are talking about and how that theory could co-exist with our Biblical understanding. Just something to ponder.
And yet that bronze aged book predicted expansion long before the evidence of it's reality was ever found......The truth is found in the evidence of reality, not in bronze aged books and superstition.
Its what you all keep saying, but can't seem to produce the actual evidence that you say contradicts it.....Pure fantasy, contrary to the actual evidence.
Without much of a scientific mind to work with I like the way you presented your point. One thing that all of this we think eventually arrives at is that no matter how old the earth the grace of God through the sacrifice of His son to redeem our failures, that is sufficient. I can stand on the Rock of Jesus Christ and nobody can knock me off because it is HE who put me there and HE who will lift me when I stumble. All of the knowledge in the universe cannot change the truth and the truth is that we are all sinners, we all fail, we all can be lifted by Christ or we can reject the truth and live to merely die. I prefer to live in the love of Christ and to embrace His eternal grace when He calls me home.Time dilation is indeed an experimental fact.
So as velocity increases decay rates slow. But if you use today's slower rate to calculate into the past without taking into account the decay rates increase as you go backwards, you would come to the incorrect conclusion that the earth was billions of years old.
By products of this is that mass also increases due to an increase in energy, hence we no longer have dinosaur sized animals because they can not exist in today's higher mass.
But rulers also increase. So as we go backwards the orbit size of the planets increase, making days longer. So likewise we can not say it was 6,000 years ago, because our years (orbits around the sun) are different then they once were. Also earth increases in size (volume) leading to longer days. Also to less gravity since it was spread out over a larger distance (F = Gm1m2/r^2), an inverse square law, which means animals were bigger and get smaller as the distance lessens and mass increases due to energy added.....
Likewise the genome was then perfect, but the increased decay rate started damaging the genome through mutation and led to shorter and shorter lifespans. But days also got shorter and years shorter as orbital size and planet sizes decreased. So they probably actually lived a very long time compared to our shorter years and days now.
It all easily fits into a Biblical framework if one uses the science we understand it to be and neither side ignores it.... How old is the earth? I couldn't tell you and no one can, because we can't determine our true velocity through space.
Some will argue we can calculate our velocity from the CMB, but that is so easily shown to be pseudoscience I won't bother to discuss it at this time, unless you are curious....
Wow ! What a telling, informative riposte ! Good gracious, no. They just happen.So big complex things need to be created?
Someone with a sarcastic wit I can relate toWow ! What a telling, informative riposte ! Good gracious, no. They just happen.
Sure, but be more specific and tell us where the Koran tells us about the multiverse.[/quiote]
Other people have indeed done this.
The Qur'an Project
Scientific facts in the Holy Quran | islam.ru
It's not just a prediction but a scientific Fact that we live in a multiverse which is composed of at least 3 Universes. The first firmament/Heaven was made the 2nd Day Genesis 1:8 and other Heavens were made on the 3rd Day. Genesis 2:4 When today's most advanced scientists discover this Fact, they will confirm information which ONLY God could have known 3k years ago. It's proof of God.
And how will we see the differences between these three universes? How can we expect to see different about them?
For example, you might say, "If we see some region where such-and-such physical law that we know does not work, but this other law works, then we know that it is the 2nd universe, the firmament."
In other words, be specific about your claim. Then we'll see if science ever makes a discovery that agrees with you.
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