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Discussion My Dad has come to doubt the validity of the gift of tongues and may become a cessationist. Here are some of his searches... help wanted.

GoldenKingGaze

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Recently my dad has come to doubt his gift of tongues and is considering cessationism. He introduced me to Pentecostalism as a youth.

Here are some sites he sent me that I am responding to:
Is speaking or praying in tongues Biblical? | Verse By Verse Ministry International
Craig and Médine Keener - Thrive
What is Cessationism? Who Are Famous Cessationists?
What is Speaking in Tongues? A Biblical Analysis

I find Chat GPT says many of the cessationsists were either continuationists or undecided.

Does anyone here want to help my dad?
 

Hoping2

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Recently my dad has come to doubt his gift of tongues and is considering cessationism. He introduced me to Pentecostalism as a youth.

Here are some sites he sent me that I am responding to:
Is speaking or praying in tongues Biblical? | Verse By Verse Ministry International
Craig and Médine Keener - Thrive
What is Cessationism? Who Are Famous Cessationists?
What is Speaking in Tongues? A Biblical Analysis

I find Chat GPT says many of the cessationsists were either continuationists or undecided.

Does anyone here want to help my dad?
As the gift of tongues was given on the day of Pentecost, and those who heard it eventually asked..."What shall we do ?"...perhaps it would be wise to ask your dad if he has done the two things necessary for the gift of tongues to be given ?
Peter said..."Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Has he quit sinning, and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of his past sins ?
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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As the gift of tongues was given on the day of Pentecost, and those who heard it eventually asked..."What shall we do ?"...perhaps it would be wise to ask your dad if he has done the two things necessary for the gift of tongues to be given ?
Peter said..."Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Has he quit sinning, and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of his past sins ?
Yes, he is 74 and in his thirties gained tongues. He went through an upheavel and seems to not forgive a type of sinner. He attends church. He seems to read and find condemnation in Romans for the sinners he does not like. He used to be a positive thinker and disciplined, disciplining me.
 
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Hoping2

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Yes, he is 74 and in his thirties gained tongues. He went through an upheavel and seems to not forgive a type of sinner. He attends church. He seems to read and find condemnation in Romans for the sinners he does not like. He used to be a positive thinker and disciplined, disciplining me.
If one can't forgive, they won't be forgiven. (Matt 6:15)
 
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Richard T

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I would suggest he consider what many charismatics teach, that the gift "various kinds of tongues" is not for everyone, but that the "baptism of the spirit" with evidence of speaking in tongues is for everyone. In John 4 "a well of water spring up to eternal life. vs john 7 "out of your innermost being will flow rivers of living water." Chapter 7 goes on to ay this he spoke of the spirit that was not yet given.
Also,
Acts 2:17-18 (ESV)
17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.

I could go on and teach what the gift various kinds on tongues does entail and how is is different and goes beyond the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I am not convinced that you dad needs a theological message at all. One might consider why your dad is thinking of switching positions on this. Did something happen? Or is perhaps his church even if Pentecostal is so dead that the Holy Spirit is not moving that much? Less and less charismatics receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, so the center of gravity has changed a bit in the last couple of decades. Some churches are more open with tongues and have a greater move of the Holy Spirit than others. Such a move includes the demonstration of power and gifts. Conversely, some churches repress the Holy Spirit possibly even grieving the Holy Spirit, and are not comfortable with much exercise of the gifts. So he needs a renewal perhaps, not a pulling back. I am not judging him or any particular church but pointing out practical possibilities. Another possibility is that the neo-charismatics sometimes have some doctrinal differences and some quite frankly are a bit off from what an older Pentecostal was taught. In any church some use of the gifts might be of the flesh, so perhaps he discerns this? So again the church setting might be an issue though for different reasons. Lastly, most talk about the Holy Spirit and various waves throughout history. It is very easy to speak in tongues etc. during such a wave. That wave has waned now but I think it is about to pick up and already has in some places. I pray your dad can find his way to be strengthened in God in whatever manner that God has for him. That he can find fellowship with those that can help him the most and where he can be a giver to them. That especially he can concentrate on loving God and loving others with no impediments. That he would still desire earnestly the spiritual gifts and learn more about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Hope this helps. God bless.
 
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jiminpa

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You don't become a cessationist by studying the Bible. You become a cessationist by believing man instead of the Bible. I think the best thing you could do is pray, and if the Spirit gives you anything, tell him that. The problem is that the cessationists have centuries of practice at arguing against the Bible.
 
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AbbaLove

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Yes, he is 74 and in his thirties gained tongues. He went through an upheavel and seems to not forgive a type of sinner. He attends church. He seems to read and find condemnation in Romans for the sinners he does not like. He used to be a positive thinker and disciplined, disciplining me.
Is it easier for your dad (as well as yourself) to overlook the sins of those we consider a friend than a Christian that may rub us the wrong way. Isn't Ihat somewhat typical of Chrsitendom? Do you expect your dad (74) to like some [so-called] Christians; more than others? Isn't that also the case with the kind of sin (e.g. occasional smoking, or drinking ... vs ... lying, mindful adultery (Matt. 5:27-28).

Does your disciplined dad judge sin on those he doesn't like ... moreso ... than those the does like burdened with sin. Maybe you can relate to your own example or that of a friend so your dad while judging you or another can see the speck in his own eye.

FWIW, the Gift of tongues can be abused by a prideful Christian who wants others to be impressed by his/her Gift of tongues.
 
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lismore

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Recently my dad has come to doubt his gift of tongues and is considering cessationism. He introduced me to Pentecostalism as a youth.

Here are some sites he sent me that I am responding to:
Is speaking or praying in tongues Biblical? | Verse By Verse Ministry International
Craig and Médine Keener - Thrive
What is Cessationism? Who Are Famous Cessationists?
What is Speaking in Tongues? A Biblical Analysis

I find Chat GPT says many of the cessationsists were either continuationists or undecided.

Does anyone here want to help my dad?


Hello! I looked at a couple of the web pages given.

Some of the evidence used for Cessationism seems to be highlighting bad experiences with Charismatic/Pentecostal Churches and individuals and throwing the baby out with the bath water. I don't think bad experiences are anything to do with Spiritual gifts, it's that in my experience Charismatics make popularity/celebrity an idol, they mistake popularity for Godliness, extrovertism for anointing and refuse to muzzle any false teacher/ false prophet in their midst who seems to be popular. Because wolves at the top are not tackled, the place begins to fill with dangerous predators. The result is that a lot of people, even those who have had a powerful experience with the Holy Spirit are reporting toxic experiences and avoiding Charismatic circles for their own well-being. I know many people, Spirit filled believers on fire for God who had a bad experience or experiences in a Charismatic or Pentecostal Church and won't be going back.

If your dad has had a toxic experience, he won't get any biblical satisfaction in some of these circles, they're too far gone. The show is important not the sheep. If your dad has had a genuine experience with the Holy Spirit nothing can take it away from him, bad experiences might burn him in the short term but not permanently, as he stays away from toxic streams he will gently return to the doctrinal place he was before.

IMHO your dad will be fine in time once he gets all the poison out of his system. Debating might not do much good while he is still hurting from a bad experience.

God Bless You :)
 
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jiminpa

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Recently my dad has come to doubt his gift of tongues and is considering cessationism. He introduced me to Pentecostalism as a youth.

Here are some sites he sent me that I am responding to:
Is speaking or praying in tongues Biblical? | Verse By Verse Ministry International
Craig and Médine Keener - Thrive
What is Cessationism? Who Are Famous Cessationists?
What is Speaking in Tongues? A Biblical Analysis

I find Chat GPT says many of the cessationsists were either continuationists or undecided.

Does anyone here want to help my dad?
I read those articles and the best of them are saying that scripture means the opposite of what it actually says, which is what cessationists believe. No cessationist believes scripture.

The most scriptural sounding argument, but it's not at all scriptural, is forcing the presumptions that since the listeners heard their own languages and dialects that it was human languages being spoken, which is not in the text, and the presumption that all tongues from that point on must also follow that, (presumed), pattern, despite Paul's writing that tongues speak to God and not to man. I reiterate that the cessationists are approaching scripture with a predetermined outcome and conforming scripture to their doctrine, not conforming their doctrine to scripture.
 
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AbbaLove

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Getting back to the daughter's concern for her dad's perspective is that he hears/sees a fellow worshipper speaking in a "strange" tongue; while knowing that this worshipper isn't what he would call a Saint (because of a specific sin). In other words her dad quesrions if God gives a precious Spiritual Gift (including tongues) to a person that can't stop sinning. The daughter's Dad although once a continualist is now considering cessationism.
 
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jiminpa

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Getting back to the daughter's concern for her dad's perspective is that he hears/sees a fellow worshipper speaking in a "strange" tongue; while knowing that this worshipper isn't what he would call a Saint (because of a specific sin). In other words her dad quesrions if God gives a precious Spiritual Gift (including tongues) to a person that can't stop sinning. The daughter's Dad although once a continualist is now considering cessationism.
The correct response to some person or people being poor examples of some standard of Christianity is to abandon the teachings of the Bible? That seems to me to be the worst possible response.
 
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