Multiverse Theory, multiple Ezekiel 37 events and the unification of Calvinism with Universalism?

DennisTate · Jan 13, 2020

IF... my online friend who introduced me to an Agnostic variation of Multiverse Theory was actually explaining to me how Ezekiel 37
could perhaps happen again and again and again and again then I suspect that we could be on the verge of being able to present a powerful case for possible unity between Calvinism and Eventual Universal Salvation...... (or something astonishingly close to it)?

The key to the whole thing is this simple question.........

Is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus sufficiently powerful to take any moment in time since the fall of Adam and Eve and / or even before the fall of Adam....... and spin off more and more and more and more new time lines....... each of which would in my opinion fulfill Ezekiel 37, Revelation 20, Romans 11 and many more troubling Scriptures, (such as it being somehow more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the "Day of Judgment" than for Capernaum??????

If that would be too much for Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to accomplish... then I guess my theory would be silly???

Oh... in each new time line I assume a higher and then higher and then higher and then higher outpouring of the Holy Spirit / the Love / Light / Truth of G-d on all flesh as predicted in Joel 2.

The fatal flaw of Universalism

DennisTate said:
I could be wrong......
I often am......
my wife and any of my friends can verify that I am wrong again and again and again and again even on a daily basis but.............

an online friend has me looking at Ezekiel 37 and Revelation 20 and Romans 11 from a whole new level........
in terms of Multiverse Theory combined with non-linear time...... Multiple Ezekiel 37 events.............. that are founded on the idea of any moment in time since Adam and Eve........

serving as theoretical STAGE in which a whole new time line can be spun off...........

and........ strangely enough.........

the Calvinists could really do something with this idea if they so wished????????????????????

Does.... the Ancient of Days the Father know what will happpen in each and every one of these new time lines???????

Could Bill Wiese have been unsaved in a previous time line..... and then saved in our time line......... in which he was shown a vision of himself....... from a previous time line?????????

The obvious implications that in two, or three or a thousand new time lines...... in each of which Bill Wiese is Saved.... he may well lead more and more and more and more previously unsaved people to Salvation........ (by previously I mean in those other theoretical time lines)?!

The implications is that in more and more time lines...... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus gets to have more and more and more and more joy.... as He gives more and more joy to the Father.... over more and more sinners who are finally led to repentance...... in applied Multiverse Theory...... applied by G-d?!

DennisTate · Jan 13, 2020

You really do need to read my friends writings on this to know exactly what I am talking about:

From another forum:

AboveAlpha said: ↑
This is part of the MANY WORLDS THEORY.....but we have found that the Many Worlds Theory is too limited to account for Quantum Mechanics so we developed models of MULTIVERSAL THEORY which Many Worlds Theory is but a part of it.

In Multiversal Theory you have Many Worlds theory as a part of it but Many Worlds is but one Universal Baseline Reality Grouping with Infinite Numbers of Divergent Universal States of Reality that all have ONE SET of NATURAL PHYSICAL LAWS.

In Multiversal Theory we have our ONE set of Natural Physical Laws that govern the Infinite in Number Divergent Universal States of Reality where each one has a different version of you and I and everyone and everything else............but as well in Multiversal Theory there are also INFINITE IN NUMBER UNIVERSAL BASELINE REALITY GROUPINGS......where each Grouping has it's own completely different that our own Alternate Universal Natural Physical Laws.

Thus each BASELINE UNIVERSAL REALITY GROUPING.....which are INFINITE IN NUMBER.....each have within the INFINITE IN NUMBER DIVERGENT UNIVERSAL STATES OF REALITY.

So Infinite Groups of Infinite Versions.

AboveAlpha

AboveAlpha said: ↑
The REASON you have not seen it is because I and a few other's have not PUBLISHED IT YET!!

This theory is MINE and I was helped by some very smart people at MIT...and they will share in whatever comes our way once we get it published.

The Many World's Model was something that other's worked on and one day when I was much younger than I am now I thought....."Well....if there are infinite versions of you and me and everything else.....why can't there not be INFINITE UNIVERSAL BASELINE REALITY GROUPINGS....so that in each one of these Baseline Reality Groupings exist an Infinite in number amount of Divergent Universal States where you and I and everything else DO NOT EXIST....and as well these GROUPINGS would have completely different Universal Natural Physical Laws than our own.

So we began to do the math and the geometry as we used Multiversal Polymorphic Algebraic Equasions to set up the Calculus and several new Calculus symbols had to be developed.

So....this is mine.

AboveAlpha

DennisTate · Jan 13, 2020

This will also help to fill you in on why I have been thinking about this and for the record..... I apologize in advance for my ignorance of the words and technical jargon that you Theologians use because I truly am a Newbie when it comes to such matter. I did take a couple of university level Theology courses but I remember that the engine in my car blew up preventing me from finishing Theology 240 and I will have to scratch my head for a while to remember how things went with the more basic course that I also took. (I do remember writing a paper for it that is available online).

Rick Joyner, The Call:
The Power of His Word

“You seek to know and walk in My power so that you can heal the sick and perform miracles, but you have not even begun to comprehend the power of My word. To resurrect all the dead who have ever lived on earth will not even cause Me to strain. I uphold all things by the power of My word. The creation exists because of My word, and it is held together by My word.

“Before the end, I will reveal My power on earth. Even so, the greatest power that I have ever revealed on the earth, or ever will, is still a very small demonstration of My power I do not reveal My power to cause men to believe in My power, but to cause men to believe in My love.

“If I had wanted to save the world with My power when I walked the earth, I could have moved mountains by pointing a finger Then all men would have bowed to Me, but not because they loved Me or loved the truth, but because they feared My power I do not want men to obey Me because they fear My power, but because they love Me and love the truth.

“If you do not know My love, then My power will corrupt you. I do not give you love so you can know My power, but I give you power so that you can know My love. The goal of your life must be love, not power Then I will give you power with which to love people. I will give you the power to heal the sick because you love them, and I love them, and I do not want them sick." (Pastor Rick Joyner, The Final Quest and The Call)

If I remember correctly this statement is about ninety percent of the way through this video:

thecolorsblend · Jan 13, 2020

I'm open to the possibility of a multiverse.

Mostly it's because I want to believe a better world than this one can exist.

Tolworth John · Jan 14, 2020

DennisTate said:
Messiah Yeshua - Jesus sufficiently powerful to take any moment in time since the fall of Adam and Eve and / or even before the fall of Adam....... a

The multiverse theory is just that an idea which has no evidence to support it.

Even if there was theoretical evidence for them, whether they did or did not actually exist would be impossible to prove and the inability to verivie there existence makes them irrelevant.

nolidad · Jan 14, 2020

DennisTate said:
IF... my online friend who introduced me to an Agnostic variation of Multiverse Theory was actually explaining to me how Ezekiel 37
could perhaps happen again and again and again and again then I suspect that we could be on the verge of being able to present a powerful case for possible unity between Calvinism and Eventual Universal Salvation...... (or something astonishingly close to it)?

The key to the whole thing is this simple question.........

Is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus sufficiently powerful to take any moment in time since the fall of Adam and Eve and / or even before the fall of Adam....... and spin off more and more and more and more new time lines....... each of which would in my opinion fulfill Ezekiel 37, Revelation 20, Romans 11 and many more troubling Scriptures, (such as it being somehow more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the "Day of Judgment" than for Capernaum??????

If that would be too much for Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to accomplish... then I guess my theory would be silly???

Oh... in each new time line I assume a higher and then higher and then higher and then higher outpouring of the Holy Spirit / the Love / Light / Truth of G-d on all flesh as predicted in Joel 2.

The fatal flaw of Universalism

What you are presenting is just a twist on reincarnation with a Christian slant. It is not true. As it says in Hebrews- it is determined for men to die once- then comes their judgment! Ands the use there means more of sentencing.

DennisTate · Jan 14, 2020

thecolorsblend said:
I'm open to the possibility of a multiverse.

Mostly it's because I want to believe a better world than this one can exist.

Well said........... and I just read a fascinating quotation that to my thinking implies something along that line:

"Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in all the universe of God, finally unlightened by the Cross? Shall there be a sin, or sorrow, or pain unhealed? Is the very universe, is creation in all its extent, a field wide enough for the Son of God?"

and I think that something along this line is implied here:

Isaiah 9

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 11

And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots shall bear fruit.

2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.

3 And his delight shall be in the fear of Jehovah; and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears; 4 but with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his waist, and faithfulness the girdle of his loins.

6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.

My point is this......IF......
Dr. George Ritchie in 1943 had a valid and real spiritual experience with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as he was shown what George thought to be four higher invisible dimensions of space and time THEN.......
surely the time will come when the kingdom of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus will expand and expand and expand and expand into those invisible dimensions.........IF THEY DO EXIST???????

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/exceptional/george-ritchie.html#a05a

b. His Guided Tour of the Earthbound Realm with Jesus

The following is the testimony of George Ritchie's tour of the Earthbound Realm: Then Jesus begins to take Ritchie on a journey through various realms of the afterlife. They fly toward a large city on Earth where they notice a group of assembly-line workers at work. They witnesses the spirit of a woman trying desperately to grab a cigarette from the workers who were oblivious to her presence. This woman had died severely addicted to cigarettes and was now cut off from the one thing she desperately desired most.

Ritchie realizes how the spirits in these realms immediately know the thoughts of other spirits around them. This is the reason they tend to group together with other spirits. It is too threatening to be around others who knew and disagreed with their thoughts.

Jesus leads Ritchie to a house somewhere on Earth where he is shown the spirit of a young man following his living family members around and begging them for forgiveness. But the family members are completely unaware of his presence. Jesus tells Ritchie the young man committed suicide and is "chained to every consequence of his act."

They then traveled to a bar somewhere on Earth which was filled with sailors drinking heavily. Spirits surrounded the sailors as they tried desperately, and in vain, to grasp the shot glasses to get a drink. Other spirits tried to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. Ritchie learns these are the spirits of people who died still having a severe alcoholic addiction which went beyond the physical. He is bewildered as he observes one of the sailors passing out causing the sailor's protective aura surrounding him to crack open. When it does, it allows a spirit to scramble into the sailor's unconscious body. This scene was repeated over and over.

c. His Experience of the "Receiving Station"

Jesus then takes Ritchie to another realm and is shown a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were "angels" trying to arouse them and help them realize, "God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn." These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)

I personally believed in Soul Sleep from about 1972 or 1973 until 1990 and so.............. what if I had died and had felt that I was supposed to sleep somehow until there was a big trumpet blast.................. would not Messiah Yeshua - Jesus have eventually have woken me up in spite of my sincere but terribly flawed understanding of the scriptures????????????

I mean these people who George Ritchie was shown....... these are religious people........ but sincerely deceived...........!!!

DennisTate · Jan 14, 2020

nolidad said:
What you are presenting is just a twist on reincarnation with a Christian slant. It is not true. As it says in Hebrews- it is determined for men to die once- then comes their judgment! Ands the use there means more of sentencing.

When I read your post I went away scratching my head over what you meant and then as I was buzzing around with the dry mop and power scrubber it hit me that you do not mean reincarnation in the same sense that a Buddhist or Hindu would mean it but.............
you are onto something important because yes....... IF... Messiah Yeshua Jesus was to take any moment in time from May of 1959 until now and use it as a beginning point for a new time line then YES.... there would be a DUPLICATE........... (some would think in terms of a clone but no this would be a full fledged duplicate of me in that time line).............

..... As opposed to being offended by this idea we could think in terms that maybe..... just maybe...... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus may make more than one of us due to His liking us so much???????????????

(Why did the Word - Logos tell Abraham his seed would be like the stars of heaven or the sand on the seashore)?

I am more than willing to allow Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to make duplicates of me if He can use them to give joy to the Ancient of Days the FAther by giving those duplicates of me more of the Holy Spirit so that they can be used to lead far, far, far, far, far more people to salvation than I have done in my sixty years. (Actually.. the part of us that exists before we were conceived may have agreed to this already or perhaps we would not even have been conceived)?!

Luk 15:7

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luk 15:10

Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Deade · Jan 14, 2020

nolidad said:
What you are presenting is just a twist on reincarnation with a Christian slant. It is not true. As it says in Hebrews- it is determined for men to die once- then comes their judgment! Ands the use there means more of sentencing.

It does not make sense to resurrect whole groups of people just to condemn and throw into fire. It suggests there will be a chance of something implied by Christ:
See: Matt. 10:15;11:23,24; Mar. 6:11; Luk. 10:12.

DennisTate said:
When I read your post I went away scratching my head over what you meant and then as I was buzzing around with the dry mop and power scrubber it hit me that you do not mean reincarnation in the same sense that a Buddhist or Hindu would mean it but.............
you are onto something important because yes....... IF... Messiah Yeshua Jesus was to take any moment in time from May of 1959 until now and use it as a beginning point for a new time line then YES.... there would be a DUPLICATE........... (some would think in terms of a clone but no this would be a full fledged duplicate of me in that time line).............

..... As opposed to being offended by this idea we could think in terms that maybe..... just maybe...... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus may make more than one of us due to His liking us so much???????????????

(Why did the Word - Logos tell Abraham his seed would be like the stars of heaven or the sand on the seashore)?

I am more than willing to allow Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to make duplicates of me if He can use them to give joy to the Ancient of Days the FAther by giving those duplicates of me more of the Holy Spirit so that they can be used to lead far, far, far, far, far more people to salvation than I have done in my sixty years. (Actually.. the part of us that exists before we were conceived may have agreed to this already or perhaps we would not even have been conceived)?!

Luk 15:7

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luk 15:10

Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Ya gettin kinda new-agy there are you not? The OT references point to a future time/covenant and not another dimension.

DennisTate · Jan 15, 2020

Deade said:
It does not make sense to resurrect whole groups of people just to condemn and throw into fire. It suggests there will be a chance of something implied by Christ:
See: Matt. 10:15;11:23,24; Mar. 6:11; Luk. 10:12.

Ya gettin kinda new-agy there are you not? The OT references point to a future time/covenant and not another dimension.

Exactly.......... why resurrect the dead simply to throw them into hell afterwards!

Ezekiel 37

The hand of Jehovah was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of Jehovah, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones.

2 And he caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord Jehovah, thou knowest.

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy over these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of Jehovah.

5 Thus saith the Lord Jehovah unto these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live.

6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am Jehovah.

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and, behold, an earthquake; and the bones came together, bone to its bone.

8 And I beheld, and, lo, there were sinews upon them, and flesh came up, and skin covered them above; but there was no breath in them.

9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are clean cut off.

12 Therefore prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, O my people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am Jehovah, when I have opened your graves, and caused you to come up out of your graves, O my people.

14 And I will put my Spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I will place you in your own land: and ye shall know that I, Jehovah, have spoken it and performed it, saith Jehovah.

Christians in the afterlife state would NOT say
"Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are clean cut off."

Notice that this sounds like FUTURE TENSE:
"And ye shall know that I am Jehovah, when I have opened your graves, and caused you to come up out of your graves, O my people."

Much of this was taught to me by my old church that had some serious flaws but........ they went into the scriptures so powerfully that I used to drive one hundred and fifty miles one way to go to church on Saturday.... and it was really worth it. I do go into what I think our major flaws was in this post:

An apology from a former member of the Worldwide Church of God

Deade · Jan 15, 2020

DennisTate said:
Exactly.......... why resurrect the dead simply to throw them into hell afterwards!

Ezekiel 37

The hand of Jehovah was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of Jehovah, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones.

2 And he caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord Jehovah, thou knowest.

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy over these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of Jehovah.

5 Thus saith the Lord Jehovah unto these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live.

6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am Jehovah.

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and, behold, an earthquake; and the bones came together, bone to its bone.

8 And I beheld, and, lo, there were sinews upon them, and flesh came up, and skin covered them above; but there was no breath in them.

9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are clean cut off.

12 Therefore prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, O my people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am Jehovah, when I have opened your graves, and caused you to come up out of your graves, O my people.

14 And I will put my Spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I will place you in your own land: and ye shall know that I, Jehovah, have spoken it and performed it, saith Jehovah.

Christians in the afterlife state would NOT say
"Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are clean cut off."

Notice that this sounds like FUTURE TENSE:
"And ye shall know that I am Jehovah, when I have opened your graves, and caused you to come up out of your graves, O my people."

Much of this was taught to me by my old church that had some serious flaws but........ they went into the scriptures so powerfully that I used to drive one hundred and fifty miles one way to go to church on Saturday.... and it was really worth it. I do go into what I think our major flaws was in this post:

An apology from a former member of the Worldwide Church of God

You gave up on the soul-sleep? Strange, so many scriptures to validate. Let me ask you this: Is not a NDE an exception rather than the norm? Does not god know beforehand that He isn't taking the person in death? My wife had a NDE and yet, she still believes in soul-sleep. God is not the author of confusion.

DennisTate · Jan 15, 2020

Deade said:
You gave up on the soul-sleep? Strange, so many scriptures to validate. Let me ask you this: Is not a NDE an exception rather than the norm? Does not god know beforehand that He isn't taking the person in death? My wife had a NDE and yet, she still believes in soul-sleep. God is not the author of confusion.

I have to admit that Dr. Ken Ring found out that about about eighty percent of people who flatline remember nothing. An answer to that was discovered though by Maurice Rawlings M. D.

Dr. Maurice Rawlings - To Hell and Back Documentary MUST WATCH!!!

nolidad · Jan 15, 2020

DennisTate said:
When I read your post I went away scratching my head over what you meant and then as I was buzzing around with the dry mop and power scrubber it hit me that you do not mean reincarnation in the same sense that a Buddhist or Hindu would mean it but.............
you are onto something important because yes....... IF... Messiah Yeshua Jesus was to take any moment in time from May of 1959 until now and use it as a beginning point for a new time line then YES.... there would be a DUPLICATE........... (some would think in terms of a clone but no this would be a full fledged duplicate of me in that time line).............

..... As opposed to being offended by this idea we could think in terms that maybe..... just maybe...... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus may make more than one of us due to His liking us so much???????????????

(Why did the Word - Logos tell Abraham his seed would be like the stars of heaven or the sand on the seashore)?

I am more than willing to allow Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to make duplicates of me if He can use them to give joy to the Ancient of Days the FAther by giving those duplicates of me more of the Holy Spirit so that they can be used to lead far, far, far, far, far more people to salvation than I have done in my sixty years. (Actually.. the part of us that exists before we were conceived may have agreed to this already or perhaps we would not even have been conceived)?!

Luk 15:7

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luk 15:10

Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

We have so much that is clearly written in Gods Word to deal with, why should we allow ourselves to be distracted by these ideas that are beyond proof and have no semblance of reality in Gods' Word?

nolidad · Jan 15, 2020

Deade said:
It does not make sense to resurrect whole groups of people just to condemn and throw into fire. It suggests there will be a chance of something implied by Christ:
See: Matt. 10:15;11:23,24; Mar. 6:11; Luk. 10:12.

Doesn't matter if it makes sense to us or not! It is biblical!

Revelation 20:5-15 King James Version (KJV)
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

When the bible is this clear about an issue, even if it makes no sense to us- we need to believe and accept it!

DennisTate · Jan 15, 2020

nolidad said:
We have so much that is clearly written in Gods Word to deal with, why should we allow ourselves to be distracted by these ideas that are beyond proof and have no semblance of reality in Gods' Word?

Because souls are at stake and every sinner that is brought to repentance...... brings joy to the Ancient of Days the Father.

I was taught all kinds of substantially flawed concepts since 1972 but..... they got me up out of Atheism....... I learned from all of it..........

The Bride of Messiah the Church is terribly divided on what looks to me like a rather straightforward topic that in my opinion..........
if we could agree on the basics here........
we could bring a Billion souls to repentance?

It is kind of amazing that the Bride of Messiah is so closely split on this question:

Friends of yours watch Heaven Is For Real and ask you about it?

Is Colton Burpo a credible witness?
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Deade · Jan 15, 2020

nolidad said:
Doesn't matter if it makes sense to us or not! It is biblical!

Revelation 20:5-15 King James Version (KJV)
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

When the bible is this clear about an issue, even if it makes no sense to us- we need to believe and accept it!

Yet, it does not say that everyone resurrected after the thousand years participates in that great army to go against the Lord's camp. Is there no room for anyone to have a chance at life during this resurrection, in your view?

As per verse 10 above, could that not be a recorded memorial? My Bible tells me in Ezekiel 28 that Satan will be completely destroyed and transformed into ashes (vs.18).View attachment 270309

nolidad · Jan 16, 2020

DennisTate said:
Because souls are at stake and every sinner that is brought to repentance...... brings joy to the Ancient of Days the Father.

I was taught all kinds of substantially flawed concepts since 1972 but..... they got me up out of Atheism....... I learned from all of it..........

The Bride of Messiah the Church is terribly divided on what looks to me like a rather straightforward topic that in my opinion..........
if we could agree on the basics here........
we could bring a Billion souls to repentance?

It is kind of amazing that the Bride of Messiah is so closely split on this question:

Friends of yours watch Heaven Is For Real and ask you about it?

Is Colton Burpo a credible witness?
Edit

*
Yes
13 vote(s)
41.9%

No
16 vote(s)
51.6%

I am not sure but I am looking into this.
2 vote(s)
6.5%

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Well I do not know this Colton Burpo so I can't comment. But when I have time I will investigate.

But we do not bring 1 single soul to repentance. That is done by God Himself. We just sow seed, water seed, or reap the harvest.
The external church is going to get more and more divided as these last days move on! It has been prophesied and God is dividing real believers from false believers.

nolidad · Jan 16, 2020

Deade said:
Yet, it does not say that everyone resurrected after the thousand years participates in that great army to go against the Lord's camp. Is there no room for anyone to have a chance at life during this resurrection, in your view?

As per verse 10 above, could that not be a recorded memorial? My Bible tells me in Ezekiel 28 that Satan will be completely destroyed and transformed into ashes (vs.18).View attachment 270309

My view means nothing. It is what the

Word of God says that matters!

From REv. 20:

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is no room for repentance once the great white throne is established! It is the time of eternal sentencing!

Those who rebelled are destroyed by fire from the throne of God. Then the devil is cast into the lake of fire, God establishes His great white throne and then all the rest of the dead not resurrected before the millenial kingdom will be resurrected to judgment and cast into teh lake of fire!

This is the bible.

DennisTate · Jan 16, 2020

nolidad said:
My view means nothing. It is what the

Word of God says that matters!

From REv. 20:

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is no room for repentance once the great white throne is established! It is the time of eternal sentencing!

Those who rebelled are destroyed by fire from the throne of God. Then the devil is cast into the lake of fire, God establishes His great white throne and then all the rest of the dead not resurrected before the millenial kingdom will be resurrected to judgment and cast into teh lake of fire!

This is the bible.

I could be wrong..... I often am.......
but my theory is that the events of the Mark of the Beast as shown to near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley during his near death experience did happen............ then there was a one thousand to eleven hundred year period of time somewhat like was shown to near death experiencer Howard Storm, (which reminds me of many, many, many scriptures in Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah and the minor prophets.)

Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death:

The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.

The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.

And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.

There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.

What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.

People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.

Animals lived with people, in harmony.

People, in this best of all worlds, weren't interested in knowledge; they were interested in wisdom. This was because they were in a position where anything they needed to know, in the knowledge category, they could receive simply through prayer. Everything, to them, was solvable. They could do anything they wanted to do.

Then.... there was some point in time AFTER the near death experience of Dannion Brinkley that was chosen as a new starting point and in this time line.... our time line...... the events shown to Dannion Brinkley have been delayed and delayed and delayed as the Bride of Christ makes herself more ready for the Rapture or the Second Coming.

BOX 12: Technology & Virus

The 11th box was gone & I was into the 12th box. Its visions addressed an important event in the distant future, the decade of the 90's (remember, this was 1975), when many of the great changes would take place. In this box, I watched as a biological engineer from the Middle East found a way to alter DNA & create a biological virus that would be used in the manufacture of computer chips. This discovery allowed for huge strides in science & technology. Japan, China, & other countries of the Pacific Rim experienced boom times as a result of this discovery & became powers of incredible magnitude. Computer chips produced from this process found their way into virtually every form of technology, from cars & airplanes to vacuum cleaners & blenders.

Before the turn of the century, this man was among the richest in the world, so rich that he had a stranglehold on the world economy. Still the world welcomed him, since the computer chips he had designed somehow put the world on an even keel. Gradually, he succumbed to his own power. He began to think of himself as a deity & insisted on greater control of the world. With that extra control, he began to rule the world.

His method of rule was unique. Everyone in the world was mandated by law to have one of his computer chips inserted underneath his or her skin. This chip contained all of an individual's personal information. If a government agency wanted to know something, all it had to do was scan your chip with a special device. By doing so, it could discover everything about you, from where you worked & lived to your medical records & even what kind of illnesses you might get in the future.

There was an even more sinister side to this chip. A person's lifetime could be limited by programming this chip to dissolve & kill him with the viral substance it was made from. Lifetimes were controlled like this to avoid the cost that growing old places on the government. It was also used as a means of eliminating people with chronic illnesses that put a drain on the medical system. People who refused to have chips implanted in their bodies roamed as outcasts. They could not be employed & were denied government services." (Dannion Brinkley, Saved By The Light, chapter 5)

Because of the off the scale power of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus it would not surprise me to find out that there may have been more than one time line initiated after the eighth millennium transpired and the earth was somehow burned up........ but does that mean literally like in Australia recently or does that mean by an outpouring of the love and truth of the Holy Spirit even far beyond the time shown to Howard Storm. I don't and can't know for sure.... but this could potentially get a dialogue going between denominations of Christians that have been squabbling for a long time.

Deade · Jan 16, 2020

nolidad said:
There is no room for repentance once the great white throne is established! It is the time of eternal sentencing!

Well, you see this is just your interpretation. You are still reading into scripture your rendition.

Multiverse Theory, multiple Ezekiel 37 events and the unification of Calvinism with Universalism?

Can any moment in time be used as a new beginning for a new time line?

No

Yes

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