Moving one's bed on the Sabbath

[NJA]

"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed" (John 5:8,10)

Was Jesus actually encouraging the man to break the law, or did the Jews mis-interpret the law?

Exodus 31:14 says "whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people"

Work: deputyship, employment, business.

i.e. for money or social position, which this wasn't

Does anyone have anything to add?

 

[Greg J.]

Those Jews, presuming they were like the Pharisees, "had" the Law without having hearts for God. As a result they could not follow the Law in spite of their outward actions. It was people's hearts that God wanted.

For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6, 1984 NIV)

It was OK to move the bed in spite of the letter of the Law.

... for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Corinthians 3:6b, 1984 NIV)

"the letter kills" is a reference to obeying the Law (and any "rules") without a heart for God. "the Spirit gives life" is a reference to the New Covenent. In both cases the point is same under the Old Covenent (per the above).

One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?” He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.” Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” (Mark 2:23-28, 1984 NIV)

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Jesus reiterated the laws of God in particular during his ministry recorded in the new testament.This included remembering to love God with all our heart and all our mind.

The stories of the Hebrew Pharisees condemning Jesus healing the lame, the blind, doing anything miraculous on the Sabbath day in my view is a parable of reckoning between man's glut for authority in the name of God. And God's power over man as the creator of all that exists and because of God.

Imagine the arrogance and blind ignorance a Pharisee would have to possess in order to berate someone who had just healed a cripple in front of them. And because that healing took place on the day when God was to be honored.

I believe Jesus did what he did to goad the Pharisee because his mission in part was to bring to the peoples attention the blasphemy that was their office in practice. The Pharisee and Sadducee had made themselves as god. They distorted the truth of God in order to rule over the people as gods. And one way to make that idolatrous status enforceable was to punish the people on the charge they disobeyed gods laws.

Jesus did not come therefore to establish a more complete religion than that currently in practice by the Jews under such idolatrous men. Jesus behaviors such as that described in the OP were in my view intended to repeal the authority of the false gods of the temple. Because religion was as much a political construct as was Rome's.

 

[Soyeong]

"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed" (John 5:8,10)

Was Jesus actually encouraging the man to break the law, or did the Jews mis-interpret the law?

Exodus 31:14 says "whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people"

Work: deputyship, employment, business.

i.e. for money or social position, which this wasn't

Does anyone have anything to add?

I agree that the command not to work on the Sabbath is in regard to employment or business, not necessarily in regard to lifting things, so Jesus was not encouraging him to break the Sabbath. There are a number of instances where it appears that two of God's laws conflict with each other, such as what happens when the command to circumcise a baby boy on the 8th day happens to fall on the Sabbath. It was not the case that someone was forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that one of the commands was never intended to prohibit the other command from being obeyed, and in this case, the Sabbath was never intended to prevent circumcision on the 8th day. Similarly, the Sabbath was never intended to prevent priests from doing their duties (Matthew 12:5). Jews from the house of Shammai thought that the command not to work on the Sabbath meant that you couldn't heal on it, but in general, the Sabbath was never meant to be used as an excuse to avoid doing good or to avoid obeying the two greatest commandments.

 

[pescador]

This section was preceded by Jesus healing the man. It would have been ridiculous for Jesus to have left the man by the healing pool. He probably gave the instructions so that the man would realize he had been fully healed. Jesus demonstrated on other occasions, such as when he healed a man's hand in the synagogue, that God's healing power is more important than religious ritual.

 

[MWood]

There is one thing that has been overlooked. Jesus said that if you love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as your self, you have fulfilled the law and prophets. So, as far as Jesus was concerned all the law and commandments were fulfilled. He could do these things.

 

[Soyeong]

There is one thing that has been overlooked. Jesus said that if you love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as your self, you have fulfilled the law and prophets. So, as far as Jesus was concerned all the law and commandments were fulfilled. He could do these things.

Anyone since Moses who loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law (Galatians 5:14) because love is what the law is essentially about. If your stance is that Jesus loved God with all of his heart, soul, mind, and strength and love his neighbor as himself so that we don't have to, then you are mistaken. Jesus fulfilled the law by teaching full obedience, just as Paul fulfilled the gospel by teaching full obedience to it (Romans 15:18-19).

 

[Commander]

"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed" (John 5:8,10)

Was Jesus actually encouraging the man to break the law, or did the Jews mis-interpret the law?

Exodus 31:14 says "whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people"

Work: deputyship, employment, business.

i.e. for money or social position, which this wasn't

Does anyone have anything to add?

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat(food), or in drink or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days." Colossians 2:16. You may also read Colossians 2:14-15 to get the context of 2:16.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

The Torah set forth 'rules' or 'laws' governing behavior.

Following that was at least two sets of commentaries on the 'Law' further defining what exactly the 'Law' meant. It was the extension of the Law, the commentaries which was violated by the man with the bed, not the law itself.

Similar instances of this are found throughout the Gospels; where the disciples were eating with 'unclean hands'; when the Pharisees asked about divorce; the matter of 'gifts' to God releasing one from supporting parents and others. It was not the actual Law, or Torah causing the problem, but the 'opinions' of long dead religious teachers causing the problem.

In reality, as mentioned prior, the Torah restriction was meant for commercial work or personal gain. Not for unforeseen, minor tasks which had to be executed immediately.

 

[Soyeong]

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat(food), or in drink or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days." Colossians 2:16. You may also read Colossians 2:14-15 to get the context of 2:16.

The context is in Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20-23, where the people who were judging them were teaching human principles, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, not obedience to God's holy days. So Paul was encouraging them the obey God's commands as they had been instructed and to not let any man keep them from obeying God. We should be careful not to mistake someone that was against obeying man as being against obeying God. The law was given to reveal what sin is, we wouldn't even know what sin is if God's law had not revealed it (Romans 7:7), sin is defined as lawlessness (1 John 3:4), and we are told to restore those who are caught in doing what God has revealed to be sin (Galatians 6:1).

 

[Commander]

Brother, you must understand what is said in Colossians 2:14, ordinances is the law. We read in 1 John 3:6 that whosoever sins has not seen nor known Christ, that they are of the devil in 1 John 3:8. Romans 4:15 and Ephesians 2:15. Have a blessed day knowing that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe

 

[Greg J.]

Brother, you must understand what is said in Colossians 2:14, ordinances is the law. We read in 1 John 3:6 that whosoever sins has not seen nor known Christ, that they are of the devil in 1 John 3:8. Romans 4:15 and Ephesians 2:15. Have a blessed day knowing that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe

Ironic post. Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men, especially of those that do not sin?

 

[Commander]

Ironic post. Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men, especially of those that do not sin?

Brother that is not what is stated, are you arguing with what the word of God says?. It says, specially of those that believe. 1 John 3:9. and 1 John 4:7. Have a blessed day knowing that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

 

[Greg J.]

The post is ironic because you said this:

Brother, you must understand what is said in Colossians 2:14, ordinances is the law. We read in 1 John 3:6 that whosoever sins has not seen nor known Christ, that they are of the devil

And then you said Christ is the saviour of those who believe, which does not depend on whether they have sinned or not.

I'm not attempting to explain how to interpret the Scripture, just trying to point out that what you wrote is ambiguous, and implying you might want to explain what you meant more clearly.

 

[Soyeong]

Brother, you must understand what is said in Colossians 2:14, ordinances is the law. We read in 1 John 3:6 that whosoever sins has not seen nor known Christ, that they are of the devil in 1 John 3:8. Romans 4:15 and Ephesians 2:15. Have a blessed day knowing that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe

What was written on crosses were the charges against the person who was crucified (Mark 15:26) or the violations of the law that the person had committed, not the law itself. In other words, they didn't have to legislate new laws every time someone was crucified. This fits perfectly with the concept of our sins or violations of God's law being written on his cross and with Messiah him dying in our place, but does not parallel at all with Messiah giving himself to redeem us from a set of holy, righteous, and good laws. In Titus 2:14, it doesn't say that Messiah gave himself to redeem us from the law, but that he gave himself to redeem us from lawlessness. Our salvation is from sin and sin is defined as lawlessness, so our salvation is from lawlessness for the purpose of lawfulness. We are saved by grace through faith, not be doing good works, but rather we are new creations in Messiah for the purpose of doing them (Ephesians 2:8-10), so it doesn't make any sense to say a few verses later that Messiah did away with his instructions for how to do good works, but rather Ephesians 2:15 refers to manmade laws, such as mentioned in Acts 10:28 that forbade Jews from visiting of associating with Gentiles.

 

[DPMartin]

"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed" (John 5:8,10)

Was Jesus actually encouraging the man to break the law, or did the Jews mis-interpret the law?

Exodus 31:14 says "whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people"

Work: deputyship, employment, business.

i.e. for money or social position, which this wasn't

Does anyone have anything to add?

It can’t be hard to understand that the law is to be fulfilled according to the Lord God’s Judgements. Of which Jesus was demonstrating. Which is all about Mercy where ever He sees fit to give it in His Righteousness. That said, the Lord Jesus also says that the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath.

The law isn’t according to the judgments of men, which are not the judgements of God. And it isn’t man who gave this law in question.

what is interesting is this same law and the one about those who would claim to be the Son of God are the justifications used by the Pharisees to crucify Christ, but yet we knowing that Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh, it was the Word of God that gave this same law to Moses.

it was the hearts of men that crucified Christ, not the law, because there was no, what if Jesus truly is the Son of God, considered in that court of the day, and used their interpretation of the law to justify their own judgement of what was good for them.

 

[miamited]

"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed" (John 5:8,10)

Was Jesus actually encouraging the man to break the law, or did the Jews mis-interpret the law?

Exodus 31:14 says "whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people"

Work: deputyship, employment, business.

i.e. for money or social position, which this wasn't

Does anyone have anything to add?

Hi nja,

I agree with you. Jesus spoke about the issue of the scribes and pharisees and teachers of the law straining at gnats yet swallowing camels. The Sabbath rules were a perfect example of that practice. Over a period of time since the giving of the law of the Sabbath the Jewish authorities had sat down from time to time and made rulings concerning what was or was not to be considered 'work' regarding the Sabbath prohibition.

It was whittled down, in some cases, to very miniscule issues. One could only walk a certain distance. Walking was not work, but walking too far was. Picking up things or offering to help others was generally decided to be 'work'. Yes, they had lost the heart of the command which was that everyone needed a day of rest for their mind and body. It just is good for our human health to not be so driven that we literally work ourselves to death.

However, Jesus made several comments about their idea of 'work' as being just downright silly. He spoke about how, if a neighbor's animal fell in a pit on the Sabbath, it was normal and natural to get the animal out. He spoke about how David and his men had gleaned grain for food on the Sabbath because they were hungry. He then clearly explained that the Sabbath was made for man's benefit and not made as some restrictive command to keep people from doing anything on the Sabbath.

I agree that God likely meant that 'work' was to be considered what one did as their gainful employment and possibly many of the normal things that someone might do, i.e., laundry, building around the house, etc. If it feels like work to the one participating, then don't do it. The day is for rest and honor for and to God.

God bless you
In Christ, Ted

 

[Commander]

The post is ironic because you said this:

Brother, you must understand what is said in Colossians 2:14, ordinances is the law. We read in 1 John 3:6 that whosoever sins has not seen nor known Christ, that they are of the devil

And then you said Christ is the saviour of those who believe, which does not depend on whether they have sinned or not.

I'm not attempting to explain how to interpret the Scripture, just trying to point out that what you wrote is ambiguous, and implying you might want to explain what you meant more clearly.

Brother I had to write a book to explain it. The verse of 1 Timothy 4:10 states -"specially of those that believe", not of those who believe only. When you realize that everyone(all) people are born of God, for everyone loves, then you will understand how our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men. Two verses of scripture to learn, know, memorize and never forget are 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 4:7. Yes, everyone loves and are born of God. To know God is to believe in God. Have a blessed day.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Ironic post. Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men, especially of those that do not sin?

Jesus is the savior of all men especially those that believe, is the text that leads many to uphold Universalism's tenets being described there. Everyone is saved and especially those that believe in Jesus.

Those who are in Christ do not sin in the respect that sin was counted against us before we were redeemed in Christ.
It would be an odd thing that Jesus died to take away the sins of the world, those who believe that repent, are redeemed of their sins, and then the holy spirit of God would indwell sealed inside a sinner. What would be the point?

 

[Greg J.]

Brother I had to write a book to explain it. The verse of 1 Timothy 4:10 states -"specially of those that believe", not of those who believe only. When you realize that everyone(all) people are born of God, for everyone loves, then you will understand how our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men. Two verses of scripture to learn, know, memorize and never forget are 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 4:7. Yes, everyone loves and are born of God. To know God is to believe in God. Have a blessed day.

...
I'm not attempting to explain how to interpret the Scripture, just trying to point out that what you wrote is ambiguous, and implying you might want to explain what you meant more clearly.

You are reading something into my posts that wasn't there. I am not commenting on what I understand/believe or not or looking for further clarification, but that your explanation did not express whatever you were trying to express, and that you might want to clarify it so you get better at explaining it.