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Here’s the Keys...
-have strong FAITH (even as a mustard seed)
-just BELIEVE (even when all hope seems gone)
-daily PRAYER (morning, noon, evening)
-read the BIBLE (every day)
-start a FAST (to break strongholds)
-PRAISE God (every day)
-PERSIST (do NOT GIVE UP)
Do not put a time limit on this. KEEP GOING! It’s in the
Lords time - not ours.
I see what you’re saying sister, but the way I see it from scripture is The Holy Spirit is a free gift, an unmerited gift and God gives us grace to nature and grow into our salvation, I see Jesus say things like, Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. – Mat 24:12-13 I see there’s an importance to stand firm in our faith and nothing can separate us from the love of God but we can remove ourselves, If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. - John 15:6, tbh I’d do anything to accept God again and be able to grow in faith but if God won’t accept me because I chose to remove myself I have no hope, I’m not giving up tho Gods the only thing that matters in life, he is life
Here’s the Keys...
-have strong FAITH (even as a mustard seed)
-just BELIEVE (even when all hope seems gone)
-daily PRAYER (morning, noon, evening)
-read the BIBLE (every day)
-start a FAST (to break strongholds)
-PRAISE God (every day)
-PERSIST (do NOT GIVE UP)
Do not put a time limit on this. KEEP GOING! It’s in the
Lords time - not ours.
He doesn’t. For Jesus it’s about how you live. It was the 2nd Cent before Christians started judging each other by their briefs.What does it mean to believe in Lord Jesus?
How does Lord Jesus define the acceptable faith by which God saves us?
How do the Apostolic Writers define the acceptable faith by which God saves us?
Hello @setst777, just FYI, the member who you just quoted hasn't been here (much less posted here) since June 5th, 2020 (so hearing back from him/her will probably not happen).
That said, your 3 questions are EXCELLENT ones, and worthy of their own thread, IMHOPerhaps you would consider creating a new thread for them on the Soteriology Board (or on the General Theology board)?
If you do, please let me know, as I'd like to join in
God bless you!
--David
p.s. - for now however, and in answer to your first question, here is something for you to consider. This is how the Reformers defined faith/saving faith.
ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS OF SAVING FAITH
What are the constituent elements of saving faith? The Protestant Reformers recognized that biblical faith has three essential aspects: notitia, assensus, and fiducia.
Notitia refers to the content of faith, the things we believe. There are certain things we are required to believe about Christ, namely, that He is the Son of God, that He is our Savior, that He has provided an atonement, and so on.
Assensus is the conviction that the content of our faith is true. One can know about the Christian faith and yet believe that it is not true. We might have a doubt or two mixed with our faith, but there has to be a certain level of intellectual affirmation and conviction if we are to be saved. Before anyone can really trust in Jesus Christ, he has to believe that Christ indeed is the Savior, that He is who He claimed to be. Genuine faith says that the content, the notitia, is true.
Fiducia refers to personal trust and reliance. Knowing and believing the content of the Christian faith is not enough, for even demons can do that (James 2:19). Faith is effectual only if one personally trusts in Christ alone for salvation. It is one thing to give an intellectual assent to a proposition but quite another to place personal trust in it. We can say that we believe in justification by faith alone and yet still think that we are going to get to heaven by our achievements, our works, or our striving. It is easy to get the doctrine of justification by faith into our heads, but it is hard to get it into the bloodstream such that we cling to Christ alone for salvation.
There is another element to fiducia besides trust, and that is affection. An unregenerate person will never come to Jesus, because he does not want Jesus. In his mind and heart, he is fundamentally at enmity with the things of God. As long as someone is hostile to Christ, he has no affection for Him. Satan is a case in point. Satan knows the truth, but he hates the truth. He is utterly disinclined to worship God because he has no love for God. We are like that by nature. We are dead in our sin. We walk according to the powers of this world and indulge the lusts of the flesh. Until the Holy Spirit changes us, we have hearts of stone. An unregenerate heart is without affection for Christ; it is both lifeless and loveless. The Holy Spirit changes the disposition of our hearts so that we see the sweetness of Christ and embrace Him. None of us loves Christ perfectly, but we cannot love Him at all unless the Holy Spirit changes the heart of stone and makes it a heart of flesh. ~Sproul, R. C. (2014). Everyone’s a Theologian: An Introduction to Systematic Theology (pp. 238–239). Reformation Trust.
He doesn’t. For Jesus it’s about how you live. It was the 2nd Cent before Christians started judging each other by their briefs.
Blessings to you as well, and thank you for your response.
The questions I asked are directly related to the topic of Hebrews 6. Hebrews 6 surely does plainly define and teach us what a true faith in Lord Jesus represents. And that is the faith I desire those who use the word "faith" to recognize.
1) Yes to Assensus. We learn about Lord Jesus and the Gospel revelation about Christ and his redeeming work through the Word about Christ. So, faith about Christ is the first part of the acceptable faith.
2) Yes to Fiducia. After learning the Gospel, we are to commit ourselves in complete faith and trust in Christ to save us.
3) Yes to Affection and Love. If our faith in Christ is genuine, then we come to know Christ, following Him. In this way we love Lord Jesus. This is the faith by which we receive the Spirit of Christ.
John 14:15-17. 23 (WEB) 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world can’t receive; for it doesn’t see him and doesn’t know him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you… 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.
Faith includes repentance (Acts 20:18-21), which is a change of mind and heart after learning the Gospel by which we convert - a commitment to die to (Romans 6), renounce (Luke 14:33-35), put off (Ephesians 4:22-24; Colossians 3:8-11), and crucify (Galatians 5:24-25) the old master of selfish ambitions and then submitting ourselves to God in sanctification to God (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8; 1 Peter 1:13-25), following Lord Jesus into a life of righteousness and love (Galatians 5:13-25).
1 John 2:4-6 (WEB) 4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.
Galatians 5:24-25 (WEB)
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
John 10:26-28 (WEB) 26 But you don’t believe because you are not of my sheep, as I told you. 27 My sheep hear (listen) my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give eternal life to them (the believing sheep who listen to and follow Lord Jesus). They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Therefore, those who claim to believe in Jesus but then are tempted and then continue deliberately living in sin show by their actions that they have rejected Christ as Lord, to follow the sin or sins they now serve as lord.
Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.
Luke 9:62 (WEB) “No one, having put his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for God’s Kingdom.”
Revelation 3:16 (WEB) So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth.
Hebrews 10:24-30 (WEB) 24 Let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good works, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as the custom of some is, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. 26 For, [a conjunction that connects the previous thought to that which follows] if WE deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which will devour the adversaries. 28 A man who disregards Moses’ law dies without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge {{His}} people.”
Hebrews 12:25 (WEB) 25 See that you don’t refuse him who speaks. For if they didn’t escape when they refused him who warned on the earth, how much more will we not escape who turn away from him who warns from heaven
Hebrews 3:13-15 (WEB) 13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called “today”, lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For WE have become partakers of Christ, IF WE hold the beginning of OUR confidence firm to the end, 15 while it is said, “Today if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion.” [Psalm 95:7-8]
Hebrews 4:11 (WEB) 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.
Hebrews 4:1 (WEB) Let us fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into his Rest.
Blessings
Hello Hedrick, hmmm, they judged each other on the basis of their, "briefs"He doesn’t. For Jesus it’s about how you live. It was the 2nd Cent before Christians started judging each other by their briefs.
Silliness aside (and so that I/we will have a better understanding of what you mean), could you give us a couple examples of the above, of Jesus defining saving faith for us on the basis of what we do (alone), as well some examples of how the Lord Jesus' way of defining saving faith in the Bible had changed within the ranks of the ECF by the 2nd Century?He doesn’t. For Jesus it’s about how you live. It was the 2nd Cent before Christians started judging each other by their briefs.
Hello again Setst777, you said that Hebrews 6 plainly defines/teaches us what true faith is, but you didn't point out how/where you believe that Chapter 6 does so (nor did you give us any references from Chapter 6 below). I would like to be sure that I'm understanding you correctly, so please, if you have the time, elaborate a bit for me/us (I don't want to take up much more of your time, so doing so in a concise manner, at least for now, would certainly be fine).Hebrews 6 surely does plainly define and teach us what a true faith in Lord Jesus represents.
Hello again Setst777, you said that Hebrews 6 plainly defines/teaches us what true faith is, but you didn't point out how/where you believe that Chapter 6 does so (nor did you give us any references from Chapter 6 below). I would like to be sure that I'm understanding you correctly, so please, if you have the time, elaborate a bit for me/us (I don't want to take up much more of your time, so doing so in a concise manner, at least for now, would certainly be fine).
Thanks
--David
You just gave flesh to the war between those that don't understand that Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 are about rewards and loss of rewards. Hebrews specifically says to please God one has to believe that He exists and that He does reward. Then the fleshly argument of works comes in to add fuel to the fire. And humanism wins again.Heb 6:4 has an interesting history. Hebrews wasn't accepted in the NT in the West until fairly late. A lot of it was this passage. Some in the West actually believed that once you've been baptized any sin is damning, and quoted this passage. It was finally accepted, in part because of the (almost certainly false) belief that Paul wrote it. However the usual understanding was that Heb 6:4 refers to a final and irreversible loss of faith, not to specific sins.
Luther considered its canonical status (i.e. whether it has full Scriptural authority) debatable, both on the grounds of its teaching on repentance and the fact that it's pretty obvious that it wasn't written by Paul, and its acceptance into the canon included the belief that it was.
Calvin acknowledged that its canonical status had been debated, on the grounds that many thought it said repentance was impossible. He accepted it, but understood it as referring only to a final rejection of Christ. Calvin agreed that its author was not Paul.
Hello my names Malik, a bit of background on me I grew up in church but didn’t really take God serious until I was 17 I saw that the one who loves God obeys his commands so I set out to be born again which I believe I was and to learn his commands but shortly after I stopped seeking after him and was weighed down by my sins and ended up losing my attitude of fighting against it and continued living in it, fast forward a couple months after being born again I lost what little understanding I had and settled for a lowland Christianity(not consciously) fast forward 2 years later I see the errors of my ways and deeply regret how I’ve lived my life and want to walk in a deep relationship with God but I feel no conviction for sins I just know in my heart they’re wrong I have full desire to forsake all sin and want to walk with God but I’m afraid I grieved the Holy Spirit so much that it departed and will never return, I understand God forgives all sin but his kindness is not be taken advantage which I’m afraid I trampled the grace of God and I also understand people can’t confirm if the spirit is in me or not but the spirit itself testifies to our spirit we are children of God my question is how do I get it back if I can I’ll do anything to have the privilege of being a Christ follower that God has forgiven for past sins but I feel no peace of anyone has any advice I’d greatly appreciate it
Hi and welcome!
If sin is making you uncomfortable, it’s good news, because you have not grieved away the Holy Spirit. The way one grieves away the Holy Spirit is when they don’t repent from their sins. Sin is the transgression of God law 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 and we should be uncomfortable sinning because the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sins John 16:8 for those who have not harden their hearts. This uncomfortable feeling is the Holy Spirit speaking to you. Jesus said if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins 1 John 1:9. Repentance means you are truly sorry for your sin and have a changed heart. Once you are truly sorry repent and confess and you are forgiven, that is a promise of the scriptures, so it’s important to believe this promise. You should also pray to God to help overcome your sin, because obeying God is not something we can do on our own, but through Christ all things are possible. I often ask God to reveal any sin in my life, which is something in scripture we are told to do- to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. 2 Corinthians 13:5. God’s law and commandments are there to reveal sin Romans 7:7, Romans 3:20 so we know what not to do. The only way to grieve the Holy Spirit is when we stop listening to Holy Spirit where we no longer hear His voice and cannot tell the difference between right and wrong and being comfortable in sin. Have a changed heart and repent and know God forgives you! If you need more faith pray to God for that too. We serve an awesome God who wants nothing more than to forgive us and to help us overcome.
You no longer hear God’s voice. If you’re concerned about this, you probably have not grieved away the Holy Spirit. We have a loving, long-suffering God who wants nothing more than to forgive us of our sins when we have a sorry heart and repent. Bring to God all our problems, whatever we are short on, God will help us when we ask.What happens if you grieve away the Holy Spirit?
My feeling is that "being concerned" about having grieved away the Holy Spirit may not be the best test of whether we are forgiven. God does not change, and sometimes our sins can be so repugnant to God that, even though the sinning Christian may be concerned about his relationship with God, and even urgently seek forgiveness, and fear the judgment, there may still be no room for repentance in his heart, in that, the sinning Christian will continue in such sins and so remain lost, even though desiring a better outcome.You no longer hear God’s voice. If you’re concerned about this, you probably have not grieved away the Holy Spirit. We have a loving, long-suffering God who wants nothing more than to forgive us of our sins when we have a sorry heart and repent. Bring to God all our problems, whatever we are short on, God will help us when we ask.
Not sure I said otherwise, usually people who fear they grieved away the Holy Spirit haven’t because if one has truly grieved the Holy Spirit they would not be concerned about it. That concern is the Holy Spirit impressing on our hearts that we need to repent and turn back to God.My feeling is that "being concerned" about having grieved away the Holy Spirit may not be the best test of whether we are forgiven.
Agreed. Not sure I said otherwise either.God does not change,
There is no sin that is so repugnant to God that He would not forgive if one asked with a sincere heart. True repentance means one has a changed heart and wants to turn away from their life of sin and live in obedience to God.and sometimes our sins can be so repugnant to God that, even though the sinning Christian may be concerned about his relationship with God, and even urgently seek forgiveness, and fear the judgment, there may still be no room for repentance in his heart, in that, the sinning Christian will continue in such sins and so remain lost, even though desiring a better outcome.
Hebrews 12:14-17 (WEB) 14 Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord, 15 looking carefully lest there be any man who falls short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and many be defiled by it, 16 lest there be any sexually immoral person, or profane person, like Esau, who sold his birthright for one meal. 17 For you know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for a change of mind though he sought it diligently with tears.
God may not grant a person the privilege to repent again from habitual and/or grievous sins.
2 Timothy 2:24-26 (WEB) 24 The Lord’s servant must not quarrel, but be gentle toward all, able to teach, patient, 25 in gentleness correcting those who oppose him: perhaps God may give them repentance leading to a full knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may recover themselves out of the devil’s snare, having been taken captive by him to his will.
Not sure I ever said otherwise. No we cannot live in perpetual sin and expect to be saved if we are going to believe in the Word of God. We are all sinners in need of a Savior, Jesus wants us changed from the inside out. When we love Jesus we are going to want to keep His commandments John 14:15, 1 John 5:3 and obey Him through love. This outward expression shows that we have been changed inside. If we slip and fall, we need to repent and get back up. There is hope through Jesus Christ who wants nothing more than to save us from our sins Matthew 1:21 when we have a sincere heart and repent and turn from sin.If a Christian fears judgment for his sins, for grieving and insulting the Spirit, that does not necessarily mean that he is still saved.
Hebrews 10:26-27 (WEB) 26 For if we keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which will devour the adversaries.
Absolutely.I believe that, as long as a person still lives, there is still a chance the person could repent toward God for his sins, and be forgiven and saved, but only if that repentance is sincere and results in a changed life - from serving our sin(s), which are idols in our life - to that of committing our lives in faith to Jesus as our only Lord whom we now serve. Only one Master.
Blessings
Dear SabbathBlessings, you answered well. Blessings.Not sure I said otherwise, usually people who fear they grieved away the Holy Spirit haven’t because if one has truly grieved the Holy Spirit they would not be concerned about it. That concern is the Holy Spirit impressing on our hearts that we need to repent and turn back to God.
Agreed. Not sure I said otherwise either.
There is no sin that is so repugnant to God that He would not forgive if one asked with a sincere heart. True repentance means one has a changed heart and wants to turn away from their life of sin and live in obedience to God.
Agreed. Not sure I said otherwise.
God said to forgive our brother 70x7 do you think God would hold a different standard on what He would forgive? Only God knows the heart and if one confesses their sins and are truly sorry, we need to believe in the promise that Jesus forgives and cleanse us from all sin. If we fall again, we need to pick ourselves back up and ask Jesus to help us overcome our sin. What we can’t do on our own is possible through Jesus Christ. What is dangerous is when we sin and don’t get back up and repent and become comfortable in our sin.
Amen.
Not sure I ever said otherwise. No we cannot live in perpetual sin and expect to be saved if we are going to believe in the Word of God. We are all sinners in need of a Savior, Jesus wants us changed from the inside out. When we love Jesus we are going to want to keep His commandments John 14:15, 1 John 5:3 and obey Him through love. This outward expression shows that we have been changed inside. If we slip and fall, we need to repent and get back up. There is hope through Jesus Christ who wants nothing more than to save us from our sins Matthew 1:21 when we have a sincere heart and repent and turn from sin.
Absolutely.
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